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SimonMac
28th March 2011, 08:55
Just about to submit my first invoice and rereading all the paperwork it turns out that I am working for ClientCo through two agencies; the end Client is a huge multi national and the main agency is again very big but are there any additional concerns that I need to safe guard when it comes to this type of contract?

When it comes to renewal time is there any benefit to trying to go to the main agency to negotiate rather than stay with the intermediary?

Wanderer
28th March 2011, 09:02
When it comes to renewal time is there any benefit to trying to go to the main agency to negotiate rather than stay with the intermediary?

I always speak to the client about renewal, never the agency - really it's got nothing to do with them.

At the same time, you want to find out how much the client is paying to ensure that the agents aren't ripping you off (quite possible with two of them taking a cut).

jmo21
28th March 2011, 09:03
Just about to submit my first invoice and rereading all the paperwork it turns out that I am working for ClientCo through two agencies; the end Client is a huge multi national and the main agency is again very big but are there any additional concerns that I need to safe guard when it comes to this type of contract?

When it comes to renewal time is there any benefit to trying to go to the main agency to negotiate rather than stay with the intermediary?

Well, it's one more entity in the way of your money, so I suppose there is a slightly higher risk that one may go bust.

My current contract is the same, having short as possible payment terms may be the only thing you can do to safeguard against this.

Depends on your contract of course, but it is highly likely you won't be able to ditch the intermediary at renewal as there will be clauses against doing this.

SimonMac
28th March 2011, 09:20
Well, it's one more entity in the way of your money, so I suppose there is a slightly higher risk that one may go bust.

My current contract is the same, having short as possible payment terms may be the only thing you can do to safeguard against this.

Depends on your contract of course, but it is highly likely you won't be able to ditch the intermediary at renewal as there will be clauses against doing this.

First thing I twigged was that agency 2 was invoicing agency 1 weekly but asking me to invoice them 4 weekly :mad

Support Monkey
28th March 2011, 09:22
Just about to submit my first invoice and rereading all the paperwork it turns out that I am working for ClientCo through two agencies; the end Client is a huge multi national and the main agency is again very big but are there any additional concerns that I need to safe guard when it comes to this type of contract?

When it comes to renewal time is there any benefit to trying to go to the main agency to negotiate rather than stay with the intermediary?

there are benefits to going to the main agency in that you may be able to negotiate a better deal however the chances are that the first agency will have a clause in the contract stopping you going direct

Support Monkey
28th March 2011, 09:30
I always speak to the client about renewal, never the agency - really it's got nothing to do with them. At the same time, you want to find out how much the client is paying to ensure that the agents aren't ripping you off (quite possible with two of them taking a cut).

I would have to disagree, its more a case of what as it got to do with the client,If your LTD your in a business to business deal with the agency not the client, the client went to the agency to supply a resource the agency have supplied you to the end client your contract will be between you and the agency, the agency will have a contract between themselves and the end client which as nothing to do with you, "if you had a contract with the client you would not need an agency at all"

jmo21
28th March 2011, 09:57
I would have to disagree, its more a case of what as it got to do with the client,If your LTD your in a business to business deal with the agency not the client, the client went to the agency to supply a resource the agency have supplied you to the end client your contract will be between you and the agency, the agency will have a contract between themselves and the end client which as nothing to do with you, "if you had a contract with the client you would not need an agency at all"


Yeah, blah blah contracts etc..... doesn't really matter at the end of the day so long as you get an answer.

Everywhere is different.

Sometimes I'll drop it into conversation with the client, to see what's happening. Other times, maybe if I don't feel as comfortable with that, I'll just get the agent to start making enquiries.

There are also plenty of times when the client has came straight to me and told me they are looking to extend me.

Support Monkey
28th March 2011, 11:13
[Yeah, blah blah contracts etc..... doesn't really matter at the end of the day so long as you get an answer

Everywhere is different.

Sometimes I'll drop it into conversation with the client, to see what's happening. Other times, maybe if I don't feel as comfortable with that, I'll just get the agent to start making enquiries.

There are also plenty of times when the client has came straight to me and told me they are looking to extend me.

Wanderer was saying "its got nothing to do with the agency" its got everything to do with the agent, the agent is employing your resource not the end client, yes of course speak to the client about renewals or any other matter but regardless of who makes a decision your contract is with agent 1.

To get back to your origonal question i would think as in my case agency 2 are on the end clients prefered suppliers list the agency your contract is with is not thats why you have ended up with 2 agencies, whichever way you want to look at it i bet you there is a clause about you going direct to agency 2

jmo21
28th March 2011, 11:37
Wanderer was saying "its got nothing to do with the agency" its got everything to do with the agent, the agent is employing your resource not the end client, yes of course speak to the client about renewals or any other matter but regardless of who makes a decision your contract is with agent 1.


My point, and I think Wanderer's is that the agency is largely irrelevant when it comes to renewal, unless you are looking for a rate increase or some other amendment (notice period etc).

Of course the reality is absolutely as you say, but how often does an agency stop a renewal from happening?

TheFaQQer
28th March 2011, 11:57
Just about to submit my first invoice and rereading all the paperwork it turns out that I am working for ClientCo through two agencies; the end Client is a huge multi national and the main agency is again very big but are there any additional concerns that I need to safe guard when it comes to this type of contract?

There's an additional link in the chain that could disappear with the money. If they are both credit worthy, then it's not too much of an issue. Plus if you have PCG plus membership, there is insurance for agency bankruptcy.


When it comes to renewal time is there any benefit to trying to go to the main agency to negotiate rather than stay with the intermediary?

Not really - there will probably be a clause in your contract which stops this, and almost certainly between the two agencies that prevents it.

TheFaQQer
28th March 2011, 11:58
First thing I twigged was that agency 2 was invoicing agency 1 weekly but asking me to invoice them 4 weekly :mad

How? Surely they need some kind of timesheet to do that - or are you submitting weekly and invoicing monthly?

SimonMac
28th March 2011, 12:51
How? Surely they need some kind of timesheet to do that - or are you submitting weekly and invoicing monthly?

Time sheets are done weekly, the other contractor here invoices weekly which pisses me off :(

Wanderer
28th March 2011, 13:00
Wanderer was saying "its got nothing to do with the agency" its got everything to do with the agent, the agent is employing your resource not the end client, yes of course speak to the client about renewals or any other matter but regardless of who makes a decision your contract is with agent 1.

Yeah, fair point my original statement was rather bolshie. :smile

The point I was driving at is that although your contract is legally with the agent, it absolutely would not exist and will not continue to exist without the client being there.

Think about it for a minute, what is the agent to do other than to introduce contractors to clients and to factor the payments from the client to the contractor? Work directly with the client and gang up on the agent to get a better deal for everyone. I used to negotiate through the agent but I ended up with a lot of problems. These ended up getting solved when I took it directly to the client so now I just deal direct where ever possible.

As jmo21 says, everywhere is different though. I just don't default to toeing the agency line that I can't speak direct to the client about contractual matters.

Wanderer
28th March 2011, 13:01
Time sheets are done weekly, the other contractor here invoices weekly which pisses me off :(

Go and tell the agency that you are invoicing weekly from now on.

If they won't budge on the monthly invoicing then start doing timesheets monthly too.

TheFaQQer
28th March 2011, 13:03
Time sheets are done weekly, the other contractor here invoices weekly which pisses me off :(

Maybe he has different payment terms. Last contract I did, invoiced weekly, paid on 30 day terms. This contract, invoice monthly, paid the following week.

There's not much you can do, but when you do have the discussion on a renewal, make that part of the new terms - weekly invoicing, weekly payment.

NotAllThere
28th March 2011, 13:29
...The point I was driving at is that although your contract is legally with the agent, it absolutely would not exist and will not continue to exist without the client being there. ...Quite right. It isn't the agency that decides whether you get renewed or not. That depends on your relationship with the client. Similary, if the client is an arse - no matter how wonderful the agency, you're going to be looking for another contrat.

SimonMac
28th March 2011, 16:03
Maybe he has different payment terms. Last contract I did, invoiced weekly, paid on 30 day terms. This contract, invoice monthly, paid the following week.

There's not much you can do, but when you do have the discussion on a renewal, make that part of the new terms - weekly invoicing, weekly payment.

Different Agency

escapeUK
28th March 2011, 17:08
Two agencies? Wow just think how much of your hard earned money is going to leeches!