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DimPrawn
27th April 2011, 10:42
I've found Smart Live Markets have a deal on at the moment where they will refund up to £300 in losses

Smart Live Markets (http://www.smartlivemarkets.co.uk/pages/campaigns/300-Pound-Cash-Back-Offer.aspx)


Might be worth it if you are starting out in spread betting.

Good luck.

BlasterBates
27th April 2011, 11:26
The trouble I have with this spread betting is that it seems to be a bit like betting on a roulette wheel.

Anyone have a "strategy" that actually makes money?

AtW
27th April 2011, 12:14
I've found Smart Live Markets have a deal on at the moment where they will refund up to £300 in losses


But you are so clever that you won't any losses right? :eyes

AtW
27th April 2011, 12:15
Anyone have a "strategy" that actually makes money?

Yes - don't bet as money saved are money earned only more tax efficiently.

HTH

Moscow Mule
27th April 2011, 12:46
The trouble I have with this spread betting is that it seems to be a bit like betting on a roulette wheel.

Anyone have a "strategy" that actually makes money?

"Buy" shares you've done your research on.

Don't short (sell) individual shares.

doodab
27th April 2011, 13:02
The trouble I have with this spread betting is that it seems to be a bit like betting on a roulette wheel.

Anyone have a "strategy" that actually makes money?

It's the same as any other leveraged investment. You need to understand the underlying asset, decide what you think it's going to do then place your bet and make sure you have enough capital to cover any margin calls / interim losses.

For example, you think the FTSE will go up, so place a bet at £100 a point, it will almost certainly close higher than when you bought in at some point, so you ride out any intermediate bumps until you are in the the money. If it falls 600 points then you have £60k tied up in it until the situation reverses. If it goes up a thousand points then you've made £100k.

The thing that makes it attractive to a lot of people is that the initial investment can be relatively small for the level of exposure to the market, e.g. in the above example you might only need to deposit £30k, to get the same exposure via an index tracker you would need to invest around £600k. The downside is that you lose everything if you can't make your margin call.

The obvious thing for you to do, as you are so convinced the eco-loons are going to bring Germany to her knees, is short the Euro.

DimPrawn
27th April 2011, 13:05
You can limit your exposure with stops and trailing stops and also look at binary bets.

suityou01
27th April 2011, 13:18
It's the same as any other leveraged investment. You need to understand the underlying asset, decide what you think it's going to do then place your bet and make sure you have enough capital to cover any margin calls / interim losses.

For example, you think the FTSE will go up, so place a bet at £100 a point, it will almost certainly close higher than when you bought in at some point, so you ride out any intermediate bumps until you are in the the money. If it falls 600 points then you have £60k tied up in it until the situation reverses. If it goes up a thousand points then you've made £100k.

The thing that makes it attractive to a lot of people is that the initial investment can be relatively small for the level of exposure to the market, e.g. in the above example you might only need to deposit £30k, to get the same exposure via an index tracker you would need to invest around £600k. The downside is that you lose everything if you can't make your margin call.

The obvious thing for you to do, as you are so convinced the eco-loons are going to bring Germany to her knees, is short the Euro.

Does a spreadbet not have a time span? So at the end of trading you are 60K down. :cool:

DimPrawn
27th April 2011, 13:19
Does a spreadbet not have a time span? So at the end of trading you are 60K down. :cool:

Yes watch out, as the trade will be closed, they all have an expiry date and time.

suityou01
27th April 2011, 13:25
Yes watch out, as the trade will be closed, they all have an expiry date and time.

So Doodab's point about having 60K tied up in it until the situation reverses makes it sound like a stock, but it isn't, it's a bet without a ceiling, unless you use stop losses of course.

In Doodab's FTSE example you just lost 60K down the shitter in one day.

Just saying like. :rolleyes:

DimPrawn
27th April 2011, 13:27
So Doodab's point about having 60K tied up in it until the situation reverses makes it sound like a stock, but it isn't, it's a bet without a ceiling, unless you use stop losses of course.

In Doodab's FTSE example you just lost 60K down the tulipter in one day.

Just saying like. :rolleyes:

Yeah, but with this deal you'd get £300 back, so not so bad eh?

:rolleyes:

doodab
27th April 2011, 13:41
Yes watch out, as the trade will be closed, they all have an expiry date and time.

Pending orders will expire if they aren't filled but as far as I know once you have an open position it's open until you close it (either by making another trade or via automated stop loss / take profit) or can no longer cover the margin.

doodab
27th April 2011, 13:43
Does a spreadbet not have a time span? So at the end of trading you are 60K down. :cool:

No, as long as you have enough money in your account to cover the loss + overnight financing charges you should be fine.

DimPrawn
27th April 2011, 14:06
No, as long as you have enough money in your account to cover the loss + overnight financing charges you should be fine.

Most spreadbets I've seen have a defined contract end, be it same day or many months into the future. I don't think they automatically roll over to a new contract.

doodab
27th April 2011, 14:07
Most spreadbets I've seen have a defined contract end, be it same day or many months into the future. I don't think they automatically roll over to a new contract.

Are those spreadbets or CFDs? They are different things. Of course if you are betting on futures they will expire because the underlying assets (i.e. futures contracts) expire as well.

ASB
27th April 2011, 14:23
Are those spreadbets or CFDs? They are different things. Of course if you are betting on futures they will expire because the underlying assets (i.e. futures contracts) expire as well.

Spreadbets HAVE to have an expiry, otherwise legally they are not bets.

suityou01
27th April 2011, 14:29
Spreadbets HAVE to have an expiry, otherwise legally they are not bets.

:popcorn:

doodab
27th April 2011, 14:33
Spreadbets HAVE to have an expiry, otherwise legally they are not bets.

Quite possibly, but it doesn't mean that you are forced to close your position and lose money, and on the specific site that DP linked to there is no mention of expiry whatsoever they only mention overnight funding costs => they rollover automatically so you don't need to worry about it as long as you have enough money to meet the margin and overnight funding costs

ASB
27th April 2011, 15:08
Quite possibly, but it doesn't mean that you are forced to close your position and lose money, and on the specific site that DP linked to there is no mention of expiry whatsoever they only mention overnight funding costs => they rollover automatically so you don't need to worry about it as long as you have enough money to meet the margin and overnight funding costs

That is also true, but it does mean the original position is closed and a new one with the same characteristics reopened. This does give the appearance of a continuous position.

Different providers do different things at expiry. IG index, for example, do not guarantee that they will honour roll over request (be they automatic or on demand).

DimPrawn
3rd May 2011, 10:37
The trouble I have with this spread betting is that it seems to be a bit like betting on a roulette wheel.

Anyone have a "strategy" that actually makes money?

I'm researching this tool

What is Autochartist | Autochartist (http://www.autochartist.com/what-is-autochartist/)

I'm also getting into Meta Trader 4 as a platform and you can use autochartist as a plugin.

I'll report back when I've made my next million.

sasguru
3rd May 2011, 10:56
I'm researching this tool

What is Autochartist | Autochartist (http://www.autochartist.com/what-is-autochartist/)

I'm also getting into Meta Trader 4 as a platform and you can use autochartist as a plugin.

I'll report back when I've made my next million.

A fool and his (imaginary) money are easily parted.:laugh:laugh:laugh

DimPrawn
3rd May 2011, 11:20
A fool and his (imaginary) money are easily parted.:laugh:laugh:laugh

I've made enough today to buy 1/2 a cheese sandwich, so fook orf!

Jog On
3rd May 2011, 14:50
I'm researching this tool

What is Autochartist | Autochartist (http://www.autochartist.com/what-is-autochartist/)

I'm also getting into Meta Trader 4 as a platform and you can use autochartist as a plugin.

I'll report back when I've made my next million.

Autochartist is provided by GFT who also provide spread betting via their Dealbook360 platform. They've just started using MT4 as well - about flipping time! If you use GFT you get autochartist included.

I got a demo from smart live markets as well but I prefer GFT as they have so many instruments available that most other brokers don't.

Spread betting strategies are no different to CFD strategies. It's the same data coming through the same charts. Just the mechanics and tax treatment are different as are the overnight charges.

If you don't want to lose all your money you could learn a bit about money management and position sizing. I don't risk more than 2% of my account on any single trade and will size my position based on where my stop loss is. If I get into a drawdown of 25% I have a cut off 'stop trading' rule. So the worst case scenario is that I lose 2% on any single trade and 25% of the account overall.

I trail my stops to reduce risk and lock in profits as well. Successful trading is down to having rules like these and following them.

sasguru
3rd May 2011, 14:56
. Successful trading is down to having rules like these and following them.

I presume you're doing so well following these rules that you're trading full time?
If only I was intelligent enough to see these patterns, I too could be a millionaire day trader like you. :rolleyes:

Jog On
3rd May 2011, 15:02
I presume you're doing so well following these rules that you're trading full time?
If only I was intelligent enough to see these patterns, I too could be a millionaire day trader like you. :rolleyes:

It will be some time before I have an account size that will sustain comfortable living expenses after reinvesting 75% of gains back in.

Particularly only risking 2%/trade! I don't day trade I swing/position trade. Much less stressful.

russell
3rd May 2011, 15:06
Its is 99% likely you will lose money trading over the long term, if a group of PHD's from MIT blew up then what makes you think you can be successful? Trying to predict the markets movement which is the result lots of participants placing orders with varying motivations for trading is virtually impossible.

Jog On
3rd May 2011, 15:13
Its is 99% likely you will lose money trading over the long term, if a group of PHD's from MIT blew up then what makes you think you can be successful? Trying to predict the markets movement which is the result lots of participants placing orders with varying motivations for trading is virtually impossible.

What were the facts behind this one? I read something about a group of PHDs doing a simulated trading experiment and nearly all of them lost because they bet so much that their accounts couldn't sustain losses. And who said having a PHD makes you a good trader?

Anyway - you all know everything already... I'm still learning!