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BoredBloke
16th May 2011, 08:13
Have any of you lot had their boiler replaced? There is nothing wrong with the one we have other than it's old and will be hugely inefficient compared to the ones available at the moment. I've searched on the net, but there seems to be very little in terms of what I'm likely to have to fork out. The British Gas website estimates our potential (made up) savings to be in the region of £335 a year.

EternalOptimist
16th May 2011, 08:21
Have any of you lot had their boiler replaced? There is nothing wrong with the one we have other than it's old and will be hugely inefficient compared to the ones available at the moment. I've searched on the net, but there seems to be very little in terms of what I'm likely to have to fork out. The British Gas website estimates our potential (made up) savings to be in the region of £335 a year.

:eek: 335 ?

Thats one heck of a saving. i have trouble believing that




:rolleyes:

BoredBloke
16th May 2011, 08:25
:eek: 335 ?

Thats one heck of a saving. i have trouble believing that




:rolleyes:

me too - that's why I said made up. But googling our boiler, its rated at G. It's also 30 years old and the original one from when our house was built and when it was a 3 bedroom house rather than the 4 bedroom house it is now. So it's the boiler equivalent of putting a pensioner on a very fast treadmill.

EternalOptimist
16th May 2011, 08:34
So it's the boiler equivalent of putting a pensioner on a very fast treadmill.

wow, that sounds great. I'd pay to see that. not £335 though, maybe £100


:rolleyes:

ChrisPackit
16th May 2011, 08:56
:eek: 335 ?

Thats one heck of a saving. i have trouble believing that

:rolleyes:


Gotta beleive British Gas, they are the experts...


Thanks, Chris

(currently at British Gas) :tongue

d000hg
16th May 2011, 09:03
If it's 30 years old then I can believe you might halve you bills.

We had one like that, an old back-boiler, that died and couldn't be fixed. Actually opted for a modern back-boiler on the basis it would be less work involved tearing the house to bits, wouldn't risk damage tot he plumbing with higher-pressure, etc. As it turned out lots was so old it had to be replaced and going with a standard combi would've been at least as easy and a bit cheaper too.

It will take quite a few years to pay for itself but if you are there long-term it's worth it. On the other hand, it might help when selling that you don't have something so antique.

Lockhouse
16th May 2011, 09:14
We're just going through this at the moment. We have a 36 year old boiler that still works. It's a big beast rated at 59Kw and they are talking about replacing it with two smaller boilers which I think is a very bad idea as it's twice as much to go wrong.

British gas have slapped a warning notice on the boiler for poor ventilation but that's just scare tactics. They've also told us they can't get parts which I also take with a pinch of salt.

British Gas are coming round today to quote us properly. I will then get a couple of quotes from local tradespeople to see what they reckon.

At the end of the day the boiler is still working even though it's not covered with a service contract. I'm tempted to wait until it dies before replacing it. It's worked for the last 36 years and I'm not bothered too much about how "green" it is.

EternalOptimist
16th May 2011, 09:20
We're just going through this at the moment. We have a 36 year old boiler that still works. It's a big beast rated at 59Kw ..... It's worked for the last 36 years and I'm not bothered too much about how "green" it is.

green ??? 59kwh ?? you would need the whole street to have solar panels installed, the sun to shine 24 hours a day and large windmill stuck up yer bum to power THAT bastid



:rolleyes:

d000hg
16th May 2011, 09:34
they are talking about replacing it with two smaller boilers which I think is a very bad idea as it's twice as much to go wrong.Seems odd. Is that 59 output or usage... if the latter a modern 40 one might be as effective?


British gas have slapped a warning notice on the boiler for poor ventilation but that's just scare tactics. They've also told us they can't get parts which I also take with a pinch of salt.There are strict rules so it's not scare tactics just the law, unfortunately. If your old boiler goes you will then need to comply once you get a new one, and the house would not likely meet these requirements based on the age. Holes in the floor and/or wall... but if you get a new boiler they do this as standard.
The problem will be getting anyone to touch your old boiler. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they are right about parts. We had an independent guy out when we thought we were being spun the same line, he was doubtful and told us exactly what parts we needed so we could look for ourselves; "I'll fit it if you can find it" he said, and we couldn't.

British Gas are coming round today to quote us properly. I will then get a couple of quotes from local tradespeople to see what they reckon.

At the end of the day the boiler is still working even though it's not covered with a service contract. I'm tempted to wait until it dies before replacing it. It's worked for the last 36 years and I'm not bothered too much about how "green" it is.[/QUOTE]

Sysman
16th May 2011, 09:50
British gas have slapped a warning notice on the boiler for poor ventilation but that's just scare tactics. They've also told us they can't get parts which I also take with a pinch of salt.

Correct on both counts. If the poor ventilation were a danger they'd condemn it and disconnect it.

I've had the "can't get parts" story. More like the suppliers cut their credit off for not paying on time, or some such.

"In the old days we would have made a new gasket ourselves...
"but we are only allowed to use manufacturers' part nowadays...
"the manufacturer doesn't make these parts anymore..."

Tosh. When you've worked in engineering trades you can smell the brown stuff a mile away.

And then 6 months later I read that employees were getting cash bonuses for recommending a new boiler.


British Gas are coming round today to quote us properly. I will then get a couple of quotes from local tradespeople to see what they reckon.


British Gas used to subcontract work like this. Expect their quotes to be roughly what local tradespeople quote plus a markup of a third or so. They'll use a local subcontractor to do the quote anyway.

AtW
16th May 2011, 09:53
Have any of you lot had their boiler replaced?

Ask Wilmslow, he always seems to have a couple of bunny boilers...

Fred Bloggs
16th May 2011, 10:32
I seriously think you're making a mistake by replacing an old but good condition boiler. The supposed savings you are being quoted will depend on a number of assumptions, these are things that are not going to be true in your case. Firstly, they will be assuming a very low efficiency for your existing boiler, it is unlikely that a good condition old boiler will be as dire as they guess. Secondly, the new bolier savings will be estimated assuming the very highest efficiency from the new boiler operating in condensing mode 100% of the time. For a new bolier to run in condensing mode and to get anywhere near the stated efficiencies, the water retrun temperature must be much lower than you will be experiencing in your old CH system. Why is that? Well, to get the lower water return temperatures that new boliers require to condense, the radiators need to be a lot larger and the water inlet temperature lower to give the same heat output per room. The larger radiators emit the required heat at a lower temperature from a much larger surface area, returning the water to the condensing boiler at a much lower temperature than you can acheive with your old CH system and its smaller radiators that are sized on a higher temperature. It is the lower water return temperature that allows the new type boilers to run in condensing mode and to acheive their higher efficiencies. Retrofitting a new boiler into an old CH system will NEVER get anywhere near the quoted efficiencies. The new type boiler will only run in condensing mode for short periods of time in your old CH system. Even worse, because the condensing exhaust produces an acidic condensate, the boiler heat exchangers are very prone to early failure from corrosion. It is not unusual for condensing boilers to be replaced every five years. Needless to say, this is neither "green" nor is it money saving. Finally, if you do have a condensing boiler fitted, make sure that you run the condensate drain to an internal drain inside the house. Why? Because even the small amount of condensate produced by the boiler if fed to an outside drain will freeze to solid ice in the winter. This blocks the drain, the boiler fills with condensate and switches off. Thousands of people were left without heating last winter precisely because of this simple failure. My advice is to keep your old boiler running for as long as you can. Providing your old boiler is a common make then you will have no problem getting parts. Finally, I strongly recommend you dose your CH system with Fernox water treatment as it will extend the life of your boiler and CH system by years. HTH.

PS - If you insist on buying a condensing boiler, only buy a Weissman. They're the only ones worth considering IMO.

DimPrawn
16th May 2011, 10:42
Ditch the boiler and get yourself some thermal underwear and learn to love bathing in cold water.

Good for you, your wallet and good for the planet.

OwlHoot
16th May 2011, 10:58
I've just been quoted £3200 to replace a combi boiler, after my previous one conked out last week.

The amount is almost unbelievable; but the boiler itself (a 27 KW Vaillant) and parts come to about £1300, and the rest is labour.

If anyone tells you combis are the future, don't believe them. They may be very efficient. But savings in gas bills are dwarfed by the vast purchase and installation costs, plus the fact that you're supposed to get them serviced once every year or two and _that_ costs at least three or four hundred. So expense wise they're a complete joke.

OwlHoot
16th May 2011, 11:01
:::

PS - If you insist on buying a condensing boiler, only buy a Weissman. They're the only ones worth considering IMO. ...

Excellent post, very useful.

What do you reckon of Vaillant combis? I thought they had the best reputation. They're flippin expensive enough (see previous post)

d000hg
16th May 2011, 11:06
vast purchase and installation costsIs that relatively more than the old ones used to cost?

TimberWolf
16th May 2011, 11:08
Ditch the boiler and get yourself some thermal underwear and learn to love bathing in cold water.

Good for you, your wallet and good for the planet.

Good tips. Also, buy this wallpaper:

http://web.tradekorea.com/upload_file2/sell/13/S00017413/Household_Aluminum_Foil_HHF.jpg


Very cheap!

fullyautomatix
16th May 2011, 11:29
Have any of you lot had their boiler replaced? There is nothing wrong with the one we have other than it's old and will be hugely inefficient compared to the ones available at the moment. I've searched on the net, but there seems to be very little in terms of what I'm likely to have to fork out. The British Gas website estimates our potential (made up) savings to be in the region of £335 a year.

Replaced mine last year and in fact asked here first for advice. I tried hard to get someone to repair mine but since it was over 12 years old nobody wanted to touch it since it meant trying to recall knowledge of an old boiler.

I took quotes from local family owned plumbing businesses and went with one which was not cheapest but on intuition looked like someone who would do a good job. The overall cost for boiler and installation together was about £ 1295.

The savings mentioned is not possible. But new boiler is less noisy and does result in some energy savings.

BoredBloke
16th May 2011, 11:38
I'm happy to have a non condensing boiler - just the same simple setup I already have but with a newer boiler. I'm not interested in the hot water whenever you want it for the simple reason that the kids only get out tof the shower when there is no hot water left. I don't want to change this to them only getting out of the shower once there is no gas left to supply the hot water.

ASB
16th May 2011, 12:03
I'm happy to have a non condensing boiler - just the same simple setup I already have but with a newer boiler. I'm not interested in the hot water whenever you want it for the simple reason that the kids only get out tof the shower when there is no hot water left. I don't want to change this to them only getting out of the shower once there is no gas left to supply the hot water.

You might be (rightly in my view) happy to have a non condensing boiler. Sadly building regs aren't. You can always try for an exemption cert from building control though.

Fred Bloggs
16th May 2011, 12:38
Excellent post, very useful.

What do you reckon of Vaillant combis? I thought they had the best reputation. They're flippin expensive enough (see previous post)I would never buy a combi boiler of any description. Amongst many drawbacks are the fact that I would lose my airing cupboard. Combi boliers do not have a hot water cylinder. Note that "combi" and "condensing" are not the same thing at all. AFAIK, Vaillant are a decent boiler but I'd still go for Weissman myself. They are guaranteed for 5 years as long as you use a Weissman installer. Ofcourse, it may cost an arm and a leg and the servicing to maintain the warranty will not come cheap. Myself, I'm keeping my 17 y.o. Baxi going for as long as possible.

Fred Bloggs
16th May 2011, 12:43
You might be (rightly in my view) happy to have a non condensing boiler. Sadly building regs aren't. You can always try for an exemption cert from building control though.+1. Don't hold your breath waiting for an exemption.

BoredBloke
16th May 2011, 13:37
Ok - probably had my terminology wrong, but what I meant was I'd like a system boiler or a regular boiler rather than a combi boiler.

Are they still allowed?

Gas boilers - Worcester, Bosch Group UK homeowner site (http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/homeowner/products/gas-boilers)

Fred Bloggs
16th May 2011, 14:07
Boilers for CH systems with hot water tanks are available as condensing boilers, no problem.

Lockhouse
16th May 2011, 14:44
OK, Got my quote; £8667. That's for two boilers. a 40kwh for the heating\hot water and a 20kwh for the indoor pool and annex. It will take 5 days to install and set up.

They don't do any single bigger boilers unless I go commercial which is 15K and has no benefit except just being one single unit. We're going to get a couple more quotes but looks like we'll be limping on for now and getting a new boiler (or two) when time and money permits.

d000hg
16th May 2011, 15:33
Ok - probably had my terminology wrong, but what I meant was I'd like a system boiler or a regular boiler rather than a combi boiler.

Are they still allowed?

Gas boilers - Worcester, Bosch Group UK homeowner site (http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/homeowner/products/gas-boilers)Are you just saying you want a like-for-like replacement for your old system which heated water and put it in a tank?

That's what we did: Baxi Bermuda Back Boiler Unit (http://www.baxi.co.uk/products/bermuda-back-boiler-unit.htm)

jimjamuk
16th May 2011, 15:52
having an extension done to the cardbord box as we speak - builder says that apart from venting into the new extension with the old boiller it might be wise to replace and put in a new vent pointing outside - dunno what he's on about

Said boiler would be about 600-700 quid and as long as we put it roughly in the same spot (so they done have to reroute the pipework and gas) it would be about the same again to fit with a new vent

£8000 :spank:

OwlHoot
16th May 2011, 15:55
.. servicing to maintain the warranty will not come cheap. ..

That's the big problem with all these fancy modern boilers. The plumber says all the pipes need sluicing out once a year, and the radiators bleeding (!), which is apparently almost as time consuming and labour intensive as pushing a pea across the Sahara desert with your nose. Or that was the impression he gave. So I would expect that to cost several hundred pounds! Per year!! :eek:

With my old electric boiler all I had to do was unscrew the main element housing, stick in a new heating element, toss a sacrificial anode into the boiler, and it was good to go for another five years! Job done in ten minutes for £20 tops.

Snag is I don't really have room for a water tank in my current flat. So a combi is the only option AFAIK.

ASB
16th May 2011, 16:23
OK, Got my quote; £8667. That's for two boilers. a 40kwh for the heating\hot water and a 20kwh for the indoor pool and annex. It will take 5 days to install and set up.

They don't do any single bigger boilers unless I go commercial which is 15K and has no benefit except just being one single unit. We're going to get a couple more quotes but looks like we'll be limping on for now and getting a new boiler (or two) when time and money permits.

£8.5k. :rollin:

That quoter must have a very interesting pricing scheme.

Lockhouse
17th May 2011, 07:03
£8.5k. :rollin:

That quoter must have a very interesting pricing scheme.

British Gas.

BoredBloke
17th May 2011, 08:49
Are you just saying you want a like-for-like replacement for your old system which heated water and put it in a tank?

That's what we did: Baxi Bermuda Back Boiler Unit (http://www.baxi.co.uk/products/bermuda-back-boiler-unit.htm)

Kind of...we have a standard boiler that heats up the water in a cylinder and does the heating. I simply want to replace the old one with a updated new one. There is nothing wrong with the rest of what we have, just that the thing powering the whole system is old and inefficient. I don't want to lose the hot water tank for the reasons mentioned earlier - I don't want unlimited hot water - I like the fact that it is limited by the size of the tank!

Fred Bloggs
17th May 2011, 09:13
Kind of...we have a standard boiler that heats up the water in a cylinder and does the heating. I simply want to replace the old one with a updated new one. There is nothing wrong with the rest of what we have, just that the thing powering the whole system is old and inefficient. I don't want to lose the hot water tank for the reasons mentioned earlier - I don't want unlimited hot water - I like the fact that it is limited by the size of the tank!No problem at all. Like for like replacement if you choose the regular condensing boiler from that Worcester Bosch link. All boiler makers do that kind of boiler. IMO you should also look at upgrading your CH controls at the same time as the boiler by using things like outside temperatue control. The boiler makers websites are packed with stuff like that.

d000hg
17th May 2011, 10:13
Kind of...we have a standard boiler that heats up the water in a cylinder and does the heating. I simply want to replace the old one with a updated new one. There is nothing wrong with the rest of what we have, just that the thing powering the whole system is old and inefficient. I don't want to lose the hot water tank for the reasons mentioned earlier - I don't want unlimited hot water - I like the fact that it is limited by the size of the tank!That's exactly what we set out to do. However because the tank and pipes were equally old they had to do a lot of extra work. Apparently the guys doing it were well peed off especially since most of the extra work they couldn't pass on - took them 3 days instead of 1.5 they quoted for.

So beware, it mightn't be quite as simple as it might sound like it should be. Get someone to come and check it out.