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TiroFijo
15th June 2011, 05:57
'More than 60,000 Americans were sterilised, many against their will, as part of a eugenics movement that finished in 1979, aimed at keeping the poor and mentally ill from having children.'

link (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13700490)

There would be less feral kids running around...!

MarillionFan
15th June 2011, 06:16
It's so easy to wrap up Eugenics as some palatable. :eyes:

Churchill
15th June 2011, 06:16
'More than 60,000 Americans were sterilised, many against their will, as part of a eugenics movement that finished in 1979, aimed at keeping the poor and mentally ill from having children.'

link (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13700490)

There would be less feral kids running around...!

Yep, perhaps we'd be spared your presence.

Churchill
15th June 2011, 06:22
It's so easy to wrap up Eugenics as some palatable. :eyes:

Charles Lindbergh was an advocate I believe.

MarillionFan
15th June 2011, 06:43
The problem with this form of program(which the UK have also done in the past) is that it is easy to present it logically to make it palatable and the responsible thing to do. It was down to social workers to decide who should be sterlized, and we all know how often they get it wrong. Hopefully they don't put Sasguru in charge of the next one.

The extension of this argument into modern day Britain is the National DNA Database. Let's not bother with breeding people out of society, let's catalogue all of their DNA into a large database. Let's make it secret and only open to the state & call it crime detection and then everytime someone points out what a massive travesty it is & how it's open to more misuse than any other IT system every derived by man we'll say 'But what would you feel if you're child was raped and you'd asked for the details to be taken off'

It's still here. It's just changed it's colour.

Churchill
15th June 2011, 06:49
The problem with this form of program(which the UK have also done in the past) is that it is easy to present it logically to make it palatable and the responsible thing to do. It was down to social workers to decide who should be sterlized, and we all know how often they get it wrong. Hopefully they don't put Sasguru in charge of the next one.

The extension of this argument into modern day Britain is the National DNA Database. Let's not bother with breeding people out of society, let's catalogue all of their DNA into a large database. Let's make it secret and only open to the state & call it crime detection and then everytime someone points out what a massive travesty it is & how it's open to more misuse than any other IT system every derived by man we'll say 'But what would you feel if you're child was raped and you'd asked for the details to be taken off'

It's still here. It's just changed it's colour.

Hey, they're only collecting data.

Just like the National Socialists did in the 1930s - didn't IBM have something to do with that little exercise...

Scrag Meister
15th June 2011, 07:00
DNA database, well they caught the guy who broke into my car, by matching blood samples taken from the car.

Maybe he should be sterilised, to minimise the spread of the crackhead gene.

MarillionFan
15th June 2011, 07:06
DNA database, well they caught the guy who broke into my car, by matching blood samples taken from the car.

Maybe he should be sterilised, to minimise the spread of the crackhead gene.

Thanks for that Herr Meister.:nerd

TiroFijo
15th June 2011, 08:00
Maybe he should be sterilised, to minimise the spread of the crackhead gene.

There ya go!

Troll
15th June 2011, 08:07
<advocate mode on>

We already do Eugenics in this country courtesy of the amniocentisis test and associated abortions - is that acceptable ?

There is nothing since we stopped our own enforced sterlisation policies to prevent severely disabled adults having children - and the associated care costs and problems that presents to the wider population - are we OK to bear those costs without questioning the wisdom of them doing so, also is that fair on those children to be born knowingly to such a life ?

</ advocate mode off>

lukemg
15th June 2011, 08:17
DNA database - clears as many people as it convicts + it only indicates presence in a location not always the time of that presence. It's not perfect but it's much better than what used to be available....
Reality is that we need plenty of people being born in this country to support the ageing demographics (see Japan for why this is a problem). It's either immigration or more kids, reality is a combination of the 2.
THE PROBLEM is turning these people into productive members of society and that's what we should focus on.

Mason Boyne
15th June 2011, 08:24
Eugenics is all very well (Well it isn't really, it's abhorrent!) but quis custodiet ipsos custodes? :nerd

amcdonald
15th June 2011, 08:46
Can't we just outsource all the chavs to India

MarillionFan
15th June 2011, 08:49
Can't we just outsource all the chavs to India

Nah. The Indians are far to educated to be chavs.

How about Scotland?

EternalOptimist
15th June 2011, 08:51
We have an anti-eugenics program in this country.
The wasters are paid to breed and run riot and the hard workers are having less and less kids, and agonise about how much rent to charge them



:rolleyes:

original PM
15th June 2011, 08:58
Yes as is always the question when these discussions come up - who gets to play God and how does anyone control and monitor that.

Anyone in a position of power who is able to make these decsions will always use it to their advantage.

MarillionFan
15th June 2011, 09:01
Yes as is always the question when these discussions come up - who gets to play God and how does anyone control and monitor that.

Anyone in a position of power who is able to make these decsions will always use it to their advantage.

Are you talking about RealityHack?

I concur.:smokin

Old Greg
15th June 2011, 09:03
'More than 60,000 Americans were sterilised, many against their will, as part of a eugenics movement that finished in 1979, aimed at keeping the poor and mentally ill from having children.'

link (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13700490)

There would be less feral kids running around...!

The preferred form is 'fewer' not 'less'. Perhaps we should remove you from the gene pool.

MarillionFan
15th June 2011, 09:04
The preferred form is 'fewer' not 'less'. Perhaps we should remove you from the gene pool.

Sounds like a threat.

Churchill
15th June 2011, 09:10
<advocate mode on>

We already do Eugenics in this country courtesy of the amniocentisis test and associated abortions - is that acceptable ?

</ advocate mode off>

That's complete bollocks. The amniocentisis test is there to give the parents a choice, not a third party.

Good troll though.

Troll
15th June 2011, 09:56
That's complete bollocks. The amniocentisis test is there to give the parents a choice, not a third party.

Good troll though.Interesting stance - you are associating eugenics with those eugenic policies adopted by the Nazi regime which were a tad extreme!

It actually means "the study of all agencies under human control which can improve or impair the racial quality of future generation"

And today we are using those policies for negative & positive eugenics

Negative to reduce hereditary diseases through screening and or selection (the ultimate selection of course being abortion)

Positive being IVF (is the Nobel winners donor sperm bank still available?)

Genetic counselling is on offer for both approaches (on the NHS) & would of course be the State acting as the third party - although now-a-days there is no compulsion to agree

minestrone
15th June 2011, 10:22
Was in a hospital staff area last week and there was sign on the wall about sterilization procedure and the action to take depending on age bracket, I was pretty shocked to see a "if under 20" section which obviously is not elective.

Old Greg
15th June 2011, 10:24
Was in a hospital staff area last week and there was sign on the wall about sterilization procedure and the action to take depending on age bracket, I was pretty shocked to see a "if under 20" section which obviously is not elective.

'Forced sterilisation' does occur. But the criteria is 'best interest of the individual', not 'best interest of society'. How that is determined, I don't know, but I expect that the Mental Capacity Act will be a key factor in guiding practice.

doodab
15th June 2011, 10:28
Of course these days it's considered responsible to have one's dog sterilised isn't it?

SimonMac
15th June 2011, 10:37
Work camps, that's the answer.

:eyes

After all, work sets you free.

:eyes

Arbeit macht frei

:eek

Churchill
15th June 2011, 10:38
Interesting stance - you are associating eugenics with those eugenic policies adopted by the Nazi regime which were a tad extreme!

Nope, I was making a point that whatever happens after the amniocentesis test is the parents decision and not that of the state.

SimonMac
15th June 2011, 10:38
Are you talking about RealityHack?

I concur.:smokin

Leave RH alone, he's the only mod that's given me an infraction and positive rep for the same post!

MarillionFan
15th June 2011, 10:39
Leave RH alone, he's the only mod that's given me an infraction and positive rep for the same post!

Tells you you've been naughty and then gives you a sweety.

I think he may be grooming you.:eek

SimonMac
15th June 2011, 10:41
Tells you you've been ban and then gives you a sweety.

I think he may be grooming you.:eek

Meh I'm in a dry spell so open to all offers

Churchill
15th June 2011, 10:46
Meh I'm in a dry spell so open to all offers

Oi HAB, one for you!

Pondlife
15th June 2011, 10:49
Oi HAB, one for you!

Where is he these days. It can't be taking him this long to find a shirt without coffee stains on.

:confused:

minestrone
15th June 2011, 11:04
As a journeyman of the troll I must say the OP clearly knows a thing or two about trolling, make a strong opinonated comment in the tile then let the first post seem irrelevant.

I salute the puppeteer.

TiroFijo
15th June 2011, 11:50
Sounds like a threat.

His genes are too old to be doing any moving...!