The art of negotiation

[inferno]

So, I've had a few agents call this week, the usual fishing calls etc, but a few for actual, real roles. What I want to know, is when an agent says "this is the rate, we always make this clear to the candidate beforehand, as if they want more we'll have to go back to client to ask for more", is this true or utter bull tulip?

Do they really go to the client to ask for more or do they say that to put you off, whilst pocketing a nice tidy margin sum?

I guess the negotiation would come if an offer comes through, so how hard does one negotiate, when it was made clear that the rate was what is was at the start? Is this normal?

[northernladuk]

There has to be a reason you would negotiate for a start. If your heart isn't in it or there is no desire it won't work. Most guys, including myself, have put a half hearted attempt in to an agent for a cheeky £10 -15 per day and got refused. I had no passion for it and he knew it so failed miserably.

The only time I got a rate hike is when I was offered the role and turned it down. He offered me £50 there and then but I just didn't want the role. Doh!

Gotta say I am pretty useless at it but to be fair haven't had a gig yet that I felt I could negotiate or that I wasn't happy with the rate. I am sure I have lost out of small 10's of pounds a day possibly but never been screwed over I am sure (hope)

You gotta back it up as well, evidence, business case and be prepared to turn it down and lose it.

Someone said something interesting as well the other day, the higher the rate the more power you hold. Just because you have a £500 a day offer doesn't mean it's so much you can roll over. If anything it should put you in a better position as your are more valuable. Yet to see that in action but it was an interesting comment.

[Wanderer]

So, I've had a few agents call this week, the usual fishing calls etc, but a few for actual, real roles. What I want to know, is when an agent says "this is the rate, we always make this clear to the candidate beforehand, as if they want more we'll have to go back to client to ask for more", is this true or utter bull tulip?

They want you to quote a rate up front and then stick to it. It's up to you how you play it, if you think you could demand more than you originally pitched (you are a great fit for the job and can really add value or perhaps the job is a lot more involved that you thought and you'll be wanting extra to do it) then go for it.

The other alternative is to find out how much the client is paying the agent and get the agent to reduce their margin if it's more than about 10-15%.

[inferno]

They want you to quote a rate up front and then stick to it. It's up to you how you play it, if you think you could demand more than you originally pitched (you are a great fit for the job and can really add value or perhaps the job is a lot more involved that you thought and you'll be wanting extra to do it) then go for it.

The other alternative is to find out how much the client is paying the agent and get the agent to reduce their margin if it's more than about 10-15%.

The rate is a fair bit lower than my last rate - I asked to still be put forward... I suppose it's either take it or don't. I was just wondering if the rates stated/advertised have a bit of give in them as i wasnt sure if agents expect some negotiation. Thanks for the advice.

[Ruprect]

The rate is a fair bit lower than my last rate - I asked to still be put forward... I suppose it's either take it or don't. I was just wondering if the rates stated/advertised have a bit of give in them as i wasnt sure if agents expect some negotiation. Thanks for the advice.

Hmmm.... I think its only worth going for if you're happy with the rate, and won't get p&*sed off half way through the contract because you don't think you're billing enough. Be upfront with the agent if you're not happy with the rate, otherwise you're wasting everyone's time, yourself included.

[Wanderer]

The rate is a fair bit lower than my last rate - I asked to still be put forward... I suppose it's either take it or don't. I was just wondering if the rates stated/advertised have a bit of give in them as i wasnt sure if agents expect some negotiation. Thanks for the advice.

They will try to intimidate you into sticking to your quoted rate but there is nothing wrong with quoting a low rate to get an interview then upping a bit it once you have met the client. By the same token, how many contracts have we seen which are advertised at X amount per day and then they tell us that they can only pay 75% of what they advertised.

Until the contract is signed, it's an Invitation to treat, not a binding offer.

[craig1]

I'm usually fairly relaxed about rates at pre-interview stage. As long as the rate is above my lowest rate figure* for the role as described I'll apply and question the agent about working practices expected, e.g. travel, hours, duration, etc. Once I get to interview, if I'm satisfied from the client's answers then I'll usually stick to the rate as a good faith measure, it's irrelevant what the agent's cut is at that time as long as I'm happy with the role and rate**.

If the interview throws up some challenges such as a potentially annoying occasional travel, low company PM standards or likely long hours then I'll tell the agency that quite clearly along with giving them the rate that I'd like. If they refuse to budge then I walk away, if they are open to negotiation then the games start. I couldn't care whether it comes from the agent's cut or from the client as long as I get a rate I'm happy with. Again, even if they negotiate in good faith, if I can't get the rate that would make me happy then I'll walk.

* I know the figure below which I would not bother applying for most types of PM roles now
** at renewal it's a different question as they've had their recruitment "bonus" out of me and it's straight contract admin

[Fred Bloggs]

I have feeling that I might have sold myself short by £2/hr this week. The rate before interview was quoted as £X/hr to £X+2/hr. After interview the rate was offered as £X/hr which I'm mildly irritated at and there appears to be no more money forthcoming. I might have been a bit soft with the agency but the client is waiting 4 weeks for me to come to the end of the current gig and then 2 weeks on holiday, so they agreed a 6 week delayed start. As I didn't want to risk losing the job, I have agreed to £X/hr but I might have been a bit on the soft side with it. Main thing though is that I have a start lined up for immediately after my holidays so mission accomplished really.

[northernladuk]

Hmmm.... I think its only worth going for if you're happy with the rate, and won't get p&*sed off half way through the contract because you don't think you're billing enough. Be upfront with the agent if you're not happy with the rate, otherwise you're wasting everyone's time, yourself included.

Nice post. This sums it up for me. It is hard not to get p*ssed off when you find out what he makes on you but as long as you are happy and can let this wash over you then get on with it.

[Gordon Ice]

No Agent in history has ever been able to provide an accurate Role description hence your "going to interview rate" is based on a large degree of uncertainty. Obviously at the interview you will discover that the role involves significantly more responsibility hence you will need a higher (market) rate to accept the role.

The key part of this is that the Client has selected you as their ideal candidate. You hold all the cards/bargaining chips and the Agent faces a scenario whereby they need to find a way to get you a higher rate or risk losing the business completely. The Agent will groan and gripe but this is just the way business works - its called negotiation