• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
  • Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!

Is it racism?

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Is it racism?

    When they point it out?

    What colour is Mark Duggan? Mark Duggan is the man who was shot dead by the police on Thursday in Tottenham. The Tottenham riots last night were sparked when people protested his death. This morning, I first heard of the riots on the radio, then on the television. I read articles on the internet. But oddly, no one would say what colour Mark Duggan was. No one would say the unsayable, that the rioters were, I suspect on the whole, black. Then, finally, Toby Young’s Telegraph blog post on the riots was published. Is Toby Young the only *journalist out there who will dare say that these riots are about race?

    Still, one paper did carry a photo of Mr Duggan. When I saw the photo, it confirmed what I knew instinctively: black youths once again have set London alight.
    Some of the black kids I used to teach will tell you that the riots are absolutely justified. A number of adults would agree with them. Everywhere I read that the protest was understandable because “people are very angry”.

    I’d like to know what they’re angry about. Mark Duggan is dead. He was shot by the police in a shootout. Duggan was in a minicab and shots were fired from both the cab and the police elsewhere. A police officer was hurt in the incident and a bullet was found lodged in a police radio. Either Duggan was shooting at the police or the driver of the minicab was. Either Duggan was in the wrong place at the wrong time and his death is a terrible tragedy – he was caught in the crossfire – or he shot at the police and the police defended themselves. Whatever the explanation, the police did not kill this man in cold blood.

    Yet, a friend of Duggan who gave her name as Niki, 53, said marchers had wanted “justice for the family” and “something had to be done”. She said some of them lay in the road to make their point. “They’re making their presence known because people are not happy. This guy was not violent. Yes, he was involved in things but he was not an aggressive person. He had never hurt anyone.”

    I wonder what “involved in things” means? I also wonder whether the police officer who was hurt at the scene believes Mark Duggan never hurt anyone. “Something had to be done”? She makes it sound as if the police are killing black people every other weekend and finally someone decided to take a stand.

    At school I remember watching a presentation given to the kids by Trident, the Metropolitan Police Service unit set up to investigate and inform communities of gun crime in London’s black community. I didn’t know what Trident was then, and it struck me that all of the photos of people shot (the idea was to scare the kids) were black. So at the end, I approached one of the policemen and asked him what percentage of those involved in gun crime were black. I kid you not, but my question made this thirty-something white man who was, after all, trained to deal with the black community and its issues, turn pink.
    He explained that about 80 per cent of gun crime took place in the black community. I smiled uncomfortably. But no, he said, it was worse than that. Then he told me that 80 per cent was black on black gun crime, and that of the remaining 20 per cent about 75 per cent involved at least one black person: black shooting white, or white shooting black. I pushed to know more. While he kept saying his stats were crude and he didn’t have scientific numbers, on the whole the whites who were involved in these shootings tended to be from Eastern Europe.

    Was any of this ever mentioned in their presentation? Of course not. Just like the news about the Tottenham riots doesn’t mention race either.

    Problems cannot be addressed unless people are willing to tell the truth. As with so many other things in this country, we stick our heads in the sand and refuse to speak out about it.
    These riots were about race. Why ignore the fact? – Telegraph Blogs
    "I hope Celtic realise that, if their team is good enough, they will win. If they're not good enough, they'll not win - and they can't look at anybody else, whether it is referees or any other influence." - Walter Smith

    On them! On them! They fail!

    #2
    PHILADELPHIA — Mayor Michael A. Nutter, telling marauding black youths “you have damaged your own race,” imposed a tougher curfew Monday in response to the latest “flash mob” — spontaneous groups of teens who attack people at random on the streets of the city’s tourist and fashionable shopping districts.

    “Take those God-darn hoodies down, especially in the summer,” Mr. Nutter, the city’s third black mayor, said in an angry lecture aimed at black teens. “Pull your pants up and buy a belt ‘cause no one wants to see your underwear or the crack of your butt.”

    “If you walk into somebody’s office with your hair uncombed and a pick in the back, and your shoes untied, and your pants half down, tattoos up and down your arms and on your neck, and you wonder why somebody won’t hire you? They don’t hire you ‘cause you look like you’re crazy,” the mayor said. “You have damaged your own race.”

    Mr. Nutter announced that he was beefing up police patrols in certain neighborhoods, enlisting volunteers to monitor the streets and moving up the weekend curfew for minors to 9 p.m.*Parents will face increased fines for each time their child is caught violating the curfew.

    The head of Philadelphia’s chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, J. Whyatt Mondesire, said it “took courage” for Mr. Nutter to deliver the message.

    “These are majority African-American youths and they need to be called on it,” Mr. Mondesire said.

    Mary Catherine Roper, a spokeswoman for the Philadelphia chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, said her group sees the curfew move as legal with its sole caveat being that it not evolve “into an excuse to hassle” any youths on the street.*The state ACLU filed a federal lawsuit last year challenging Philadelphia police’s use of “stop and frisk” searches. A settlement announced in June allowed the program to continue, along with safeguards to prevent the use of racial profiling.

    In the past two years, the City of Brotherly Love has been the scene of several flash mobs in which youths meet at planned locations by texting one another and then commit assorted mayhem.*In one episode, teens knocked down passers-by on a Center City street and entered an upscale department store where they assaulted shoppers. On another occasion, hundreds of teens gathered in a restaurant district and menaced patrons, forcing some restaurant owners to lock customers inside temporarily for their own protection or to close early.

    In the latest event July 29, about 20 to 30 youths descended on Center City after dark, then punched, beat and robbed bystanders. One man was kicked so savagely that he was hospitalized with a fractured skull. Police arrested four people, including an 11-year-old.*Other cities have grappled with the problem of destructive flash mobs. In Chicago on Memorial Day weekend, roving teens flashed gang signs, knocked cyclists off their bikes and harassed picnickers. Police closed a popular beach as the violence escalated.

    In January, dozens of young people stormed a popular Milwaukee mall late in the afternoon and scared customers and store employees.*In the District of Columbia, about 20 teenagers entered the G-Star Raw store on Connecticut Avenue at Dupont Circle in April and stole about $20,000 worth of merchandise before fleeing.*The problem has given a heavy dose of bad publicity to Philadelphia, which depends on tourism dollars. At one point last summer, city police stationed four officers at each intersection on weekend nights in a neighborhood where youths had congregated.

    Mr. Nutter, a strong ally of President Obama and vice president of the U.S. Conference of Mayors, took to the pulpit of his Baptist church Sunday to deliver a 30-minute sermon about black families taking responsibility for the behavior.

    “The Immaculate Conception of our Lord Jesus Christ took place a long time ago, and it didn’t happen here in Philadelphia,” Mr. Nutter said. “So every one of these kids has two parents who were around and participating at the time. They need to be around now.”

    The mayor told parents, “If you’re just hanging out out there, maybe you’re sending them a check or bringing some cash by. That’s not being a father. You’re just a human ATM. … And if you’re not providing the guidance and you’re not sending any money, you’re just a sperm donor.”

    At City Hall on Monday, the mayor said gangs will be confronted.

    “If you want to be aggressive, we’re going to be aggressive,” Mr. Nutter said, before sending a warning.*“Let me just share this with you. We’ve got the biggest, baddest gang in town - a committed group of citizens and a committed government - and we’re working together and we’re not going to have this nonsense anymore.”
    Philadelphia mayor talks tough to black teenagers after 'flash mobs' - Washington Times
    "I hope Celtic realise that, if their team is good enough, they will win. If they're not good enough, they'll not win - and they can't look at anybody else, whether it is referees or any other influence." - Walter Smith

    On them! On them! They fail!

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Incognito View Post
      I'm not so sure the riots are about race but I don't consider the article or quoting statistics in general to be racist.
      Me, me, me...

      Comment


        #4
        While I agree with many of the points made, these riots were not about race. They were about looting and causing mayhem, and getting away with it.
        Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!

        Comment


          #5
          MF made a very valid point earlier on which was down to statistics and doing a head count in the photos.

          I would put money on it that if you could get the figures out of the Met it would show that more than 50% of arrests are black males under the age of 30.

          That is well out of proportion for the London makeup. I am not trying to imply anything around genetic or racial predisposition, I'll leave that to the illiterate from the BNP etc. However it does show that there is a serious social problem that really needs to be addressed around young black males in London and trying to play it PC is not going to help.

          I'm not trying to say I have the answers, but a big, big message that is coming out is 'respect', but what do they mean? Most of these kids will have grown up in some type of broken family where the gang is what they learn their morals from, but respect in that culture is survival of the fittest. You gob off you get done in. Is that an answer? Borstal? Corporal punishment?
          "I hope Celtic realise that, if their team is good enough, they will win. If they're not good enough, they'll not win - and they can't look at anybody else, whether it is referees or any other influence." - Walter Smith

          On them! On them! They fail!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by NotAllThere View Post
            While I agree with many of the points made, these riots were not about race. They were about looting and causing mayhem, and getting away with it.
            The riots where not about race. The London riots consisted initially of mostly black (Afro-Carribean) youngsters because they are the ones that belong to the gangs, are disenfranchised, under educated and are unemployed. The copycats in Salford were mostly white(if you look at the photos) because it's a different class of gang/chav/unemployable tosser copycatting.

            It's a given that the majority of rioters in London were black. There's nothing racist at all about saying that and Incognito's point about gun crime is spot on. Basically, the authorities/public are quite happy to let them stab/shoot each other as it keeps them occupied. They've now splilled out of their sink estates and gangs worked together(we're going to see a lot more of it though maybe not in the same scale).

            The other side I was interested in, was of the 800 people or so arrested to date what proportion of those already have an existing criminal record or have been to prison. You can bet your bottom dollar that it's a signficicant proportion(i'd go as far to guess 75/80%). So this is all about deterrants and a youth that has no moral compass, no direction, no discipine and no-one to look up to you except their mates.

            We'll need to start from the ground up, but the first thing will be to throw the book at anyone caught and start sending people to jail for decent periods of time or installing a Ray Winstone Borstal system again for the younger ones (they're already lost), and then focus in on education and the schools by bringing in the rule of law and teaching discipline there.
            What happens in General, stays in General.
            You know what they say about assumptions!

            Comment


              #7
              It isn't totally a black issue. Blacks were disproportionately involved and the whole thing kicked over about the treament of somebody whom seemed to be a black gangster, however, there was also significant white involvement and in a few places like Orpington the copy cat looting seemed to involve only whites. Significant underestimate of the involvement of leftist anarchists too in my view, dig deep in obscure EU reports (the one I would have linked to has disappeared) and you may begin to see this.

              Agree with MF's last para. As far as the black gang problem is concerned I reckon we are doing blacks generally no favours by an oversensitive softly, softly approach. This culture is pervasive and gets to kids at an early age so the promising ones turn off and get no qualifications. Expensive leftist ideas of providing more jobs are not going to work unless the gang problem is tackled because stacking shelves or sitting in a dull office at near minimum wage is not half so appealing as a glamorous and far more lucrative life pushing drugs and feeling a part of something. They need to come down very hard on the gangs so it isn't an attractive option.

              Another major issue is absentee fathers, 70% against 21% in the population as a whole. Nothing to do with exclusion etc as the figure is the same in Jamaica. This is specifically a cultural problem among Afro Carribeans and Somalis (not blacks in general) that needs to be tackled, maybe by looking at welfare for single mothers as a whole.
              Last edited by xoggoth; 10 August 2011, 19:08.
              bloggoth

              If everything isn't black and white, I say, 'Why the hell not?'
              John Wayne (My guru, not to be confused with my beloved prophet Jeremy Clarkson)

              Comment


                #8
                You want an idea of the type of youth who kicked off in London - watch this film.

                Kidulthood (2006) | Watch Movies Online Free, Full Downloads Free
                What happens in General, stays in General.
                You know what they say about assumptions!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by xoggoth View Post

                  Another major issue is absentee fathers, 70% against 21% in the population as a whole. Nothing to do with exclusion etc as the figure is the same in Jamaica. This is specifically a cultural problem among Afro Carribeans and Somalis (not blacks in general) that needs to be tackled, maybe by looking at welfare for single mothers as a whole.
                  I think a bigger push of schemes like this would help - Care to Learn: are you eligible? : Directgov - Education and learning

                  Though the government doesn't want to do this as it will cost them more money than allowing single mothers to sit on their behinds until their youngest child is 7.

                  I've met quite a few single mothers from all ethnicities (except Asian ones) who are content to sit on their behinds and not even attempt to work citing childcare as a problem. Yet I know other single mothers who have and do sort this out using every female they know as well as paid childcare.
                  "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

                  Comment


                    #10
                    From the expereinces of my wife's office...which is a tiny amount of people. It seems that in the African culture women have relations with many men, sometimes bearing children from each. The men are generally absent and not involved with the upbringing of the child.

                    I just wonder how many of these young black men are from single mothers?
                    McCoy: "Medical men are trained in logic."
                    Spock: "Trained? Judging from you, I would have guessed it was trial and error."

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X