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View Full Version : Existing MOT (valid till Sept end) & Failed new MOT ..!!



Darren_Test
5th September 2011, 20:21
Hi,

My car's MOT expiry is Sept end, but if I take test now & fail MOT, can I still drive my car as normal till the end of this month or once new MOT is done, existing MOT (Valid till Sept end) will not be valid any more..??

My usual mechanic is away for a couple of weeks. So if I could pass MOT in one of the chain stores I am OK. But if it fails I want to wait till Sept last week so that I can do the repair work with my usual mechanic.

My worry is once I did the test & fail, MOT record will show as failed & I could be trouble for driving the car even though my current MOT covers till Sept end.

Please let me know.

mudskipper
5th September 2011, 20:27
Hi,

My car's MOT expiry is Sept end, but if I take test now & fail MOT, can I still drive my car as normal till the end of this month or once new MOT is done, existing MOT (Valid till Sept end) will not be valid any more..??

My usual mechanic is away for a couple of weeks. So if I could pass MOT in one of the chain stores I am OK. But if it fails I want to wait till Sept last week so that I can do the repair work with my usual mechanic.

My worry is once I did the test & fail, MOT record will show as failed & I could be trouble for driving the car even though my current MOT covers till Sept end.

Please let me know.

Yes, you can carry on driving it until the current MOT runs out. That's the point of allowing an overlap - gives you time to resolve any issues before it runs out.

conned tractor
5th September 2011, 20:29
Hi,

My car's MOT expiry is Sept end, but if I take test now & fail MOT, can I still drive my car as normal till the end of this month or once new MOT is done, existing MOT (Valid till Sept end) will not be valid any more..??

My usual mechanic is away for a couple of weeks. So if I could pass MOT in one of the chain stores I am OK. But if it fails I want to wait till Sept last week so that I can do the repair work with my usual mechanic.

My worry is once I did the test & fail, MOT record will show as failed & I could be trouble for driving the car even though my current MOT covers till Sept end.

Please let me know.

You're allowed some time to get any repairs done anyway. Not sure if this helps but I'm sure this would mean that the fail is not recorded in the same way as a pass on these new-fangled electronic systems. But IANAMOTTester.

vetran
5th September 2011, 20:34
It won't be roadworthy, you can't drive it except home, or to a repair centre.

They may overlook it if its a minor fail but its at their (police etc) discretion .

Your insurance will of course be invalid.

Remember its now computerised.

Darren_Test
5th September 2011, 20:45
Thanks a lot........So far its 2 (Yes) : 1 (No)...

So bit confusing again..any link to confirm this will be very helpful.
I am sure after expiry I can drive it for repair or retest only. But not 100% convinced if old MOT still valid could i drive as normal till expiry..?

Sockpuppet
5th September 2011, 20:48
It won't be roadworthy, you can't drive it except home, or to a repair centre.

They may overlook it if its a minor fail but its at their (police etc) discretion .

Your insurance will of course be invalid.

Remember its now computerised.

What are you talking about - stop giving advice when you clearly know tulip all about the issue.

If your current MOT is valid until the end of Sept your car is MOT'd until the end of September. The wording on the certificate is "to preserve the expiry of this MOT the earliest you may test this vehicle is end of Aug" - that is the overlap. You cannot "fail" an MOT once you have one, your car is considered MOT'd for a year from the date of issue. You can get done for driving a car in a non road worthy state but that is not the same as having no MOT. The garage cannot legally stop you from driving away or cannot phone the police to tell them and there are pretty strict rules about this.

Note that not having an MOT doesn't mean that a vehicle is "dangerous" or roadworthy. A blown headlight bulb is a MOT failure but doesn't mean the car is a death trap.

So to recap...

a) You can drive it anywhere until the end of Sept then home, to a MOT garage or repair center as long as they are pre booked when your existing MOT expires.
b) Nowt to do with the Police. You still have an MOT for now.
c) Insurance will still be valid. It's virtually impossible to invalidate the 3rd party section of your motor policy which is all you need to drive on the road legally. The other parts could be invalidated if you didn't have an MOT but as you do I wouldn't worry.
d) It's been computerised for years and means tulip all as he still has an MOT.


Sockpuppet - Transport Contractor to the stars.

TestMangler
5th September 2011, 20:49
Thanks a lot........So far its 2 (Yes) : 1 (No)...

So bit confusing again..any link to confirm this will be very helpful.
I am sure after expiry I can drive it for repair or retest only. But not 100% convinced if old MOT still valid could i drive as normal till expiry..?

K2P2 is correct. Your car has a MOT until your current MOT expires.

The others are technically correct in that if it failed on lights/tyres etc and you were stopped, you'd get a ticket. If it failed on a cv joint gaitor or something, it wouldn't be spotted by a roadside check.

However, your current MOT is still valid and legal. Anyone suggesting otherwise is talking sh1te.

conned tractor
5th September 2011, 21:02
Couldn't find any hard and fast evidence (much like a lot of current uk legislation) but did find this here (http://www.motester.co.uk/CarOwnersGuidetoTheMOT/MOTQA/MOTQApage3.aspx)


A friend of mine maintains that if you have a car MOT Tested before the expiry date she will have 2 weeks in which to repair / drive it before it is illegal. I am under the understanding that once the MOT has expired you are not permitted to drive at all unless going to and from a place of repair (MOT Garage or otherwise). Please can you clairfy the correct and legal thing to do. Many Thanks, Dan Clark

Your MOT is valid until its expiry date even if in the meantime your car fails the MOT - the original pass is still valid. In fact you can have the Test done up to a calendar month before the expiry date and have the new MOT forward-dated to the expiry date of the existing certificate. So if you have your car Tested during that month and it fails, this gives you time to have the repairs carried out and the car re-tested before the expiry of the original certificate and you are not disadvantaged as a result. - MOTT.

doodab
5th September 2011, 21:04
If the car isn't roadworthy then it's a problem whether it has just failed an MOT or not. For example, if the car has bald tires or the lights don't work then you have a problem and you need to get it fixed, whether you have 11 months or 2 days left on your current MOT, and whether it failed another more recent MOT or not.

Driving a car without a valid MOT is a different kettle of fish, even if the car is perfectly safe not having an MOT is an offence.

Cliphead
5th September 2011, 21:04
Meanwhile you have a prang. Good luck getting the insurance to pay up :eyes

Moscow Mule
5th September 2011, 21:06
Meanwhile you have a prang. Good luck getting the insurance to pay up :eyes

Holds true whether you have an MOT or not!

conned tractor
5th September 2011, 21:08
If it hasn't failed yet, then why so worried, is it a case of bangernomics?

Cliphead
5th September 2011, 21:09
Holds true whether you have an MOT or not!

Yep, been there.

Darren_Test
5th September 2011, 21:19
Couldn't find any hard and fast evidence (much like a lot of current uk legislation) but did find this here (http://www.motester.co.uk/CarOwnersGuidetoTheMOT/MOTQA/MOTQApage3.aspx)



thanks very much "conned tractor"............Thanks to all.

vetran
5th September 2011, 21:49
What are you talking about - stop giving advice when you clearly know tulip all about the issue.

I never mentioned anything about the validity of the MOT. I pointed out it is NOT ROADWORTHY!

An MOT failure means it will not pass an Ministry of Transport inspection and is therefore not deemed roadworthy. If for any reason they choose to check, (I'm not sure if a failure comes up on the police records immediately but if there is a serious accident they will probably check ) then unless the fault has been corrected (and possibly retested - not sure on that one, so I didn't mention it) you are committing an offence.

As I said, don't drive it to anywhere else other than home or to a booked repair. Your MOT may be valid but they get you on the roadworthy test. Invalid insurance etc.


Try reading this:

MOT Failure Question - MOT - MOT Test: All the Information You Need (http://www.mottest.net/mot/mot-failure-question/)



So sockpuppet you need to wind your neck in and stop talking tulip.

TraceRacing
5th September 2011, 21:49
Been there, done that.

Failed a MOT on handbrake, so booked car in for service (and to adjust handbrake)

Got rear ended in the meantime. Numpty drove into me at a roundabout. Insurance did not pay out as I had a recorded failure on my MOT.

Lesson : If you have concerns, leave the MOT until it's due for renewal. The month in advance is great if you're fairly sure it'll pass and its convenient for you (going on holiday or a busy time at renewal)

Sockpuppet
5th September 2011, 22:12
"Insurance did not pay out as I had a recorded failure on my MOT."

You should have challenged that. The other insurance would have used it as a get out of jail way. Any court would have found in your favour - most insurance companies just deny by default these days.

suityou01
5th September 2011, 23:35
Hi,

My car's MOT expiry is Sept end, but if I take test now & fail MOT, can I still drive my car as normal till the end of this month or once new MOT is done, existing MOT (Valid till Sept end) will not be valid any more..??

My usual mechanic is away for a couple of weeks. So if I could pass MOT in one of the chain stores I am OK. But if it fails I want to wait till Sept last week so that I can do the repair work with my usual mechanic.

My worry is once I did the test & fail, MOT record will show as failed & I could be trouble for driving the car even though my current MOT covers till Sept end.

Please let me know.

You own a car old enough to require an MOT?????

Admin :bluelight:eek::bluelight

AtW
6th September 2011, 00:06
So sockpuppet you need to wind your neck in and stop talking tulip.

You got me.

I'll retire that account now and will never post again, if I do then mods please ban that account without mercy.

I am so sorry. :frown

lilelvis2000
6th September 2011, 08:35
Frig. I once drive without an MOT for three months. Then I once got tax for my vintage without having to show a MOT at all...so drove a year without an MOT.

The system is a joke. not sure what you guys get all in a huff about.

Sockpuppet
6th September 2011, 09:13
So sockpuppet you need to wind your neck in and stop talking tulip.

No the question was....my car has failed an MOT can I still drive it.

The answer is "Yes" you can as it still has an MOT - the question was not "my car's a death trap can I take it on the public road and drive into a walking bus of primary school children". Driving a car with dangerous faults is another question. Specifically when you're answer started telling him "it's all computerised" - you implied that this failure will look up on the PNC. There are very strict rules about garages not being allowed to tell the police you're removing a car be it in a dangerous condition or not from them for repair.

Also MOTs are subjective - the tester is the one who decides if they pass or fail - lots of the parts of its are based on "excessive" or "substantial". Take it to another MOT tester and it'll probably pass. This doens't suddenly change the car from being unroadworty to being the safest thing on four wheels.

If you really believe that "It won't be roadworthy" just because it doesn't have an MOT then you are wrong. The MOT and being roadworthy are different things and have different criteria. For example the MOT emissions are based on a specific quantity of part per million. To get a ticket from the police they and the vehicle examiners base it on "excessive smoke" these are not the same thing.

A car can fail an MOT because a seatbelt doesn't retract, not having the postcode of where made your number plate on it....that's an MOT failure, the ABS doesn't work effectively giving you standard brakes it'll fail (but if you remove the ABS system giving you standard brakes it'll pass). A motorbike can fail an MOT for not having pillion foot pegs if its classified as a two seater - even if you never intend to take passengers they still have to be there.

None of these faults will get you a driving a vehicle in an un-roadworthy condition conviction but will fail an MOT. In future you might want to listen to people that work in the industry and not websites designed to sell a service.

doodab
6th September 2011, 09:19
No the question was....my car has failed an MOT can I still drive it.

The answer is "Yes" you can as it still has an MOT - the question was not "my car's a death trap can I take it on the public road and drive into a walking bus of primary school children". Driving a car with dangerous faults is another question. Specifically when you're answer started telling him "it's all computerised" - you implied that this failure will look up on the PNC. There are very strict rules about garages not being allowed to tell the police you're removing a car be it in a dangerous condition or not from them for repair.

Also MOTs are subjective - the tester is the one who decides if they pass or fail - lots of the parts of its are based on "excessive" or "substantial". Take it to another MOT tester and it'll probably pass. This doens't suddenly change the car from being unroadworty to being the safest thing on four wheels.

If you really believe that "It won't be roadworthy" just because it doesn't have an MOT then you are wrong. The MOT and being roadworthy are different things and have different criteria. For example the MOT emissions are based on a specific quantity of part per million. To get a ticket from the police they and the vehicle examiners base it on "excessive smoke" these are not the same thing.

A car can fail an MOT because a seatbelt doesn't retract, not having the postcode of where made your number plate on it....that's an MOT failure, the ABS doesn't work effectively giving you standard brakes it'll fail (but if you remove the ABS system giving you standard brakes it'll pass). A motorbike can fail an MOT for not having pillion foot pegs if its classified as a two seater - even if you never intend to take passengers they still have to be there.

None of these faults will get you a driving a vehicle in an un-roadworthy condition conviction but will fail an MOT. In future you might want to listen to people that work in the industry and not websites designed to sell a service.

So actually the answer isn't yes, it's maybe, because it may also fail the MOT due to a problem that will also get you in trouble for driving an unroadworthy vehicle. It depends why it fails.

Sockpuppet
6th September 2011, 09:32
So actually the answer isn't yes, it's maybe, because it may also fail the MOT due to a problem that will also get you in trouble for driving an unroadworthy vehicle. It depends why it fails.

Sort of.

The question of "It's failed my MOT can I drive it". The answer being yes. Failing an MOT doesn't bar the car from the road if you have an existing MOT.

The question of "My car has dangerous faults which caused it to fail it's MOT, should I still drive it" is different. It's the dangerous faults which bar it from the road. Minor faults while they'll fail an MOT are not enough to keep it from the road or get you any penalty for doing so.

ASB
6th September 2011, 09:43
The OP will not be committing the specific offence of driving a vehicle without a current MOT. The old certificate is not invalidated (under the old system if you got a "red" fail it was).

However the vehicle is arguably not in a roadworthy condition until such point as the faults have been dealt with to the appropriate standard (depends what the faults were), whether or not it is retested.

mudskipper
6th September 2011, 09:51
However the vehicle is arguably not in a roadworthy condition until such point as the faults have been dealt with to the appropriate standard (depends what the faults were), whether or not it is retested.

But that is true whether or not he MOTs it. If there are serious faults it's unroadworthy - whether or not you know about them. The MOT is irrelevant.

ASB
6th September 2011, 10:14
But that is true whether or not he MOTs it. If there are serious faults it's unroadworthy - whether or not you know about them. The MOT is irrelevant.

Yes. Being MOT'd is a specific requirement to legally use the vehicle on the road. It is absolutely nothing to do with whether it is roadworthy or not.

The point was that the OP still has a valid MOT (though he is more likely to get a pull since it will show an MOT fail on ANPR). He is not committing the specific offence of not having an MOT.

If the faults which caused the MOT fail are offences under the con and use regulations (which is likely) then he will still be committing those offences - in just the same way as he was when driving it to the MOT station in the first place.

Darren_Test
6th September 2011, 10:47
Ok...let me clarify this...I am NOT trying to drive a MOT failed car for another year...I just need 3 weeks time (till end of existing MOT) to fix the car if MOT fails tomorrow. Also if it fails due to some serious issue I am not planning to drive any way ..!!

But if it fails due to some trivial issue I want to use as normal for another 3 weeks, with out getting caught as 'MOT failed' in ANPR....

Thanks.

Darren_Test
6th September 2011, 10:52
Yes. The point was that the OP still has a valid MOT (though he is more likely to get a pull since it will show an MOT fail on ANPR). He is not committing the specific offence of not having an MOT..


Thats what I want to avoid...Looks like what you are saying is once MOT failed existing MOT will be invalid...& Police can take my car off the road..??

Sockpuppet
6th September 2011, 11:27
The point was that the OP still has a valid MOT (though he is more likely to get a pull since it will show an MOT fail on ANPR). He is not committing the specific offence of not having an MOT

Nope. The ANPR cameras only check for valid MOTs. They don't check for failed MOT tests while you still have an existing MOT. Trust me on this one of my mates is a traffic cop and a good source on info on points like this.


Thats what I want to avoid...Looks like what you are saying is once MOT failed existing MOT will be invalid...& Police can take my car off the road..??

Simple. Don't drive a car in a dangerous condition and you'll have no problems.

Having an MOT or not having one doesn't prove the condition of the car either way. But as far as the police, ANPR, your mother, that kid from down the road and your insurance company are concerned you have an MOT till the end of Sept which means you can drive the car on the road until then. However you as the driver need to assess the car each time you drive it and don't drive it if its in an unsafe condition MOT or not.

Put it this way the DVLA aren't going to send a snatch squad for you in the middle of the night.

Paddy
6th September 2011, 11:37
There was a similar discussion on R4 some time ago. They had a spokesman from the VOSA who said that if a vehicle is tested at any time prior to the expiry of the current MOT then the most recent MOT test becomes the only valid one. IE. Once it has failed and MOT’ it has failed regardless of the expiry of any previous ones.

SueEllen
6th September 2011, 11:39
Put it this way the DVLA aren't going to send a snatch squad for you in the middle of the night.

That's because they clamp cars instead.

mudskipper
6th September 2011, 11:40
MOT Failure Question - MOT - MOT Test: All the Information You Need (http://www.mottest.net/mot/mot-failure-question/)


"An MOT certificate is valid until its expiry date. However if your vehicle fails a test before this date and you do not rectify the defects then you are driving an unroadworthy vehicle which is an offence."

So to put this into context if your car fails the MOT due to illegal tyres then you are driving an unroadworthy vehicle, you were driving unroadworthy vehicle before the MOT, and you will be driving an unroadworthy vehicle until you get a new tyre. Therefore at anytime if caught you would be subject to a £2500 fine and 3 points per illegal tyre.

However once you get a new tyre your car is roadworthy and the old MOT is still valid until its expiry date, thus you can then drive your car again and get it retested to your timescale, with out worrying about driving without an MOT.

ASB
6th September 2011, 11:50
Thats what I want to avoid...Looks like what you are saying is once MOT failed existing MOT will be invalid...& Police can take my car off the road..??

No; that not what I am saying. The existing MOT will NOT be invalid if it fails. (I believe the testing station has the power to call in VOSA who could test it themselves and rescind the certificate but that is not likely).

In order to use he car on the road it must:-

1) Have a valid MOT certificate. The fact that you take it for an MOT today and it fails will be recorded but that of itself does not mean you do not have a current MOT. You will not be committing this offence.

2) Comply with the construction and use regulations (i.e. be roadworthy).

So, let us assume that you take it for an MOT and it fails because of emissions (i.e. SockPuppets example). This of itself is not necessarily a breach of con and use regs. It might be if it belching smoke everywhere, or it might not. If it is a breach you are commiting an offence under 2. If it isn't you are not.

Say it fails because of a headlight bulb. You will be committing an offence under 2, replace the bulb and you won't be. (Note also that driving to or from a test only gives you an exemption under the requirement for 1 it does not give an exemption from the con and use regs).

Your problem you describe is:-

"My worry is once I did the test & fail, MOT record will show as failed & I could be trouble for driving the car even though my current MOT covers till Sept end."

This is partly true. The record will show a fail. You could be in trouble for driving the car - if it is unroadworthy. The fact that the car has an MOT makes no difference to this. It is more likely you would get a pull since it will show up as failed.

Sockpuppet
6th September 2011, 12:09
MOT Failure Question - MOT - MOT Test: All the Information You Need (http://www.mottest.net/mot/mot-failure-question/)


An MOT certificate is valid until its expiry date. However if your vehicle fails a test before this date and you do not rectify the defects then you are driving an unroadworthy vehicle which is an offence.

Is exactly the same as


However if your vehicle develops a fault and you do not rectify the defects then you are driving an unroadworthy vehicle which is an offence.


I keep telling you people over and over again that an MOT is not the same as a roadworthy vehicle. Failing an MOT does not constitute driving an unsafe vehicle.

From the 1st Jan next year you'll fail the MOT if your Tyre pressure sensors are not working or if your steering lock doesn't work. Both of these failures will fail an MOT but the plod will not give a toss as there is no law against those. An HGV can fail a MOT for having a tail lift that doesn't work but there is no legal reason to have one working, the plod couldn't give you points for it.

General rule for the MOT is: If it's fitted it must work and be safe.
General rule for the ROAD is: If it's fitted it must be safe.

Note how those are not the same.

vetran
6th September 2011, 16:39
Sockie please talk to the Roses, they may grow better.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Plain%20Paper%20Refusal%20of%20an%20MOT%20Test%20C ertificate%20-%20Issued%20in%20Conjunction%20with%20VT30W%20(for %20completion%20by%20hand).pdf



About this document
1This document tells you that your vehicle has not
been shown to meet the minimum legal requirements
for the reason(s) detailed. If you intend to use your
vehicle on the road you should have it repaired
without delay and have it retested before the existing
test validity expires . In a few cases, this document
may be issued because the test could not be
satisfactorily completed.
2 Please keep this failure notice and produce it at the
Testing Station in the event of a re-examination.
3 Further information on retest fees or if you disagree
with the test result can be found on the Fees
and Appeals poster displayed in every vehicle
testing station, by visiting MOT : Directgov - Motoring (http://www.direct.gov.uk/mot) or
contacting VOSA on 0300 123 9000*.


So if it fails repair without delay and get re-tested. The MOT will not be invalidated and require you to obtain a SORN etc but you cannot use it on the road other than to get it repaired or tested.

Regardless of lax common practice you may be used to in the haulage industry this is the letter of the law. Two different things.

Your mate in traffic may not give a toss but the CPS might. Of course you are free to make up your own mind.

Sockpuppet
6th September 2011, 20:03
Sockie please talk to the Roses, they may grow better.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Plain%20Paper%20Refusal%20of%20an%20MOT%20Test%20C ertificate%20-%20Issued%20in%20Conjunction%20with%20VT30W%20(for %20completion%20by%20hand).pdf

So if it fails repair without delay and get re-tested. The MOT will not be invalidated and require you to obtain a SORN etc but you cannot use it on the road other than to get it repaired or tested.

Regardless of lax common practice you may be used to in the haulage industry this is the letter of the law. Two different things.

Your mate in traffic may not give a toss but the CPS might. Of course you are free to make up your own mind.


This document tells you that your vehicle has not
been shown to meet the minimum legal requirements
for the reason(s) detailed. If you intend to use your
vehicle on the road you should have it repaired
without delay and have it retested before the existing
test validity expires

Where does that say you can't use it on the road. It says you should have it repaired. Which is what you do if you car brakes failed without an MOT needing to be done. No where does it say you can't drive it anywhere other than to / from test stations. As I've said before. I tyre pressure sensor failure will make a car fail an MOT but will not attract the wrath of the CPS.


but you cannot use it on the road other than to get it repaired or tested.

Nope, it doesn't say that at all. What it does say is that you should get it retested before your existing MOT runs out. Which sort of proves my point about your old MOT still being valid.

But hey we'll agree to differ.

Peoplesoft bloke
6th September 2011, 20:58
Sockie is right.

And I can't believe someone trotted out that old chestnut about Insurance again.