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suityou01
15th September 2011, 09:47
Week 2 on the project and I just met with the business analyst who should have handed over to me in week 1. (Edit - to be fair not his doing)

The generic process designed by him is a high level overview and each department has their own variations on a theme. The consultancy has quoted for delivering the generic process, yet from my workshops it is clear that if this is delivered no one will use the system.

No hope of redefining the project plan, revisiting the requirements. Also the stakeholders are either on holiday, too busy to attend workshops or cannot be arsed.

It also appears there are other stakeholders that need to be involved that have not been so there are huge requirements gaps.

I am supposed to be preparing the f-spec for sign off by next Friday. :suicide:

What do I do?

Poll to follow.

Churchill
15th September 2011, 09:49
Ask yourself "What would MF do?" and plumb for the opposite.

suityou01
15th September 2011, 09:50
Ask yourself "What would MF do?" and plumb for the opposite.

Damn, need a "twat the project manager" option in the poll. Sorry. :emb

Churchill
15th September 2011, 10:09
Damn, need a "twat the project manager" option in the poll. Sorry. :emb

I was thinking more along the lines of "Whinge like a bitch", you're not doing too badly in that department. Are you taking lessons?

suityou01
15th September 2011, 10:12
I was thinking more along the lines of "Whinge like a bitch", you're not doing too badly in that department. Are you taking lessons?

Don't really need any :D

Whinging is where there are good options available but you'd prefer to piss and moan.

MarillionFan
15th September 2011, 10:15
I was thinking more along the lines of "Whinge like a bitch", you're not doing too badly in that department. Are you taking lessons?

Yes. From me. I know you pitched for the contract but as the spec said 'Must have at least 1 GCSE'. Good luck next time though.

suityou01
15th September 2011, 10:17
The BA is a fellow CUKer :eek:

:popcorn:

Churchill
15th September 2011, 10:21
Don't really need any :D

Whinging is where there are good options available but you'd prefer to piss and moan.

I'll send you an MP3 of the architect here going off on one! Not only does he get louder but his voice raises in pitch also.

NotAllThere
15th September 2011, 10:24
Damn, need a "twat the project manager" option in the poll. Sorry. :emb

FTFY.

Get a copy of the book "Deathmarch", by Yourdon. Read it through, then decide what to do. Meanwhile, keep billing.

Churchill
15th September 2011, 10:29
Week 2 on the project and I just met with the business analyst who should have handed over to me in week 1. (Edit - to be fair not his doing)

The generic process designed by him is a high level overview and each department has their own variations on a theme. The consultancy has quoted for delivering the generic process, yet from my workshops it is clear that if this is delivered no one will use the system.

No hope of redefining the project plan, revisiting the requirements. Also the stakeholders are either on holiday, too busy to attend workshops or cannot be arsed.

It also appears there are other stakeholders that need to be involved that have not been so there are huge requirements gaps.

I am supposed to be preparing the f-spec for sign off by next Friday. :suicide:

What do I do?

Poll to follow.

Do what you can and where there a gaps draw a picture of a cloud with "Something wonderful happens here" written in it.

On a serious note.

Fill the gaps as best you can. Make assumptions about the remaining gaps and be sure to explain those assumptions in your report.

You know the drill.

Sh!t happens.

Oh and don't forget to invoice!

vetran
15th September 2011, 10:32
Document everything, facts though painful are better than inaction.

Note successes & gaps factually, then suggest possible solutions be positive, circulate to stakeholders and ask them what they want to do. You can do it informally at first to get a feel.

Make them own the process, you are just facilitating. Blame is someone else's problem, you did your job.

Possible outcomes :

1. They shoot the messenger.
2. They support/promote the messenger.
3. They ignore the message and tell you to Nike it.

1. is a pain but you have interviews lined up?
2. Result bill more and you then know you will enjoy the task.
3. It's in writing you can't be blamed when it turns to Tulip.

Lockhouse
15th September 2011, 10:33
You have three options;

1) Take charge - man up, run with it, be proactive and turn the whole thing around.

2) Shut up and invoice.

3) Leave.

sasguru
15th September 2011, 10:41
Week 2 on the project and I just met with the business analyst who should have handed over to me in week 1. (Edit - to be fair not his doing)

The generic process designed by him is a high level overview and each department has their own variations on a theme. The consultancy has quoted for delivering the generic process, yet from my workshops it is clear that if this is delivered no one will use the system.

No hope of redefining the project plan, revisiting the requirements. Also the stakeholders are either on holiday, too busy to attend workshops or cannot be arsed.

It also appears there are other stakeholders that need to be involved that have not been so there are huge requirements gaps.

I am supposed to be preparing the f-spec for sign off by next Friday. :suicide:

What do I do?

Poll to follow.

I would get a job in McDonald's if I were you, since you seem to be unable to deal with any situations out of the ordinary in your current roles without suffering a complete meltdown.
You are clearly not temperementally suited to the work you do. You need clear orders, a structure and simple repetitive work.
So when you get to McDonalds don't get too many gold stars or they may promote you to shift supervisor and you won't be able to cope with that.

alreadypacked
15th September 2011, 10:42
Poisoned chalice project


Really! you have not got it yet, if there is a project that is going to require feathers to be ruffled, permies don't want to commit any CLMS (Career Limiting Moves) they steer clear of the project. Contractors are hired to do the dirty work, force stakeholders to attend meetings uncover hidden requirements etc. when it all goes wrong take the blame.

That’s why you get paid the big bucks.

If it was a good project you would not be there, so your tool kit should include how to handle these problems, because you will need it, if you are going to stay in contracting.

jmo21
15th September 2011, 10:43
No hope of redefining the project plan, revisiting the requirements. Also the stakeholders are either on holiday, too busy to attend workshops or cannot be arsed.

<snip>

What do I do?



Make sure everyone knows the issues.

I really hate the fixed bid type approach in IT, which is what this sounds like. "we'll bid X to do Y" followed by Y turning into "asdglakdgj;lksdgjldkgj;dgsjlY.laskd;lsdkgj;adsgl"

NotAllThere
15th September 2011, 10:57
I would get a job in McDonald's if I were you, since you seem to be unable to deal with any situations out of the ordinary in your current roles without suffering a complete meltdown....That won't help. What if somone says "no" when they're asked "would you like fries with that?".

Mich the Tester
15th September 2011, 10:59
That won't help. What if somone says "no" when they're asked "would you like fries with that?".
This issue does not arise if your responsibilities are limited to ' fry racking' and taking out the bins.

doodab
15th September 2011, 11:05
Some disturbing evidence of practical experience is emerging in this thread.

suityou01
15th September 2011, 11:07
Some disturbing evidence of practical experience is emerging in this thread.

Please advise on

a) How to force people to attend workshops and contribute.
b) How to insert another 2 weeks into the plan without any of the dates slipping.

:rolleyes:

Mich the Tester
15th September 2011, 11:09
That won't help. What if somone says "no" when they're asked "would you like fries with that?".


This issue does not arise if your responsibilities are limited to ' fry racking' and taking out the bins.


Some disturbing evidence of practical experience is emerging in this thread.

:wave:

Clippy
15th September 2011, 11:11
I would get a job in McDonald's if I were you, since you seem to be unable to deal with any situations out of the ordinary in your current roles without suffering a complete meltdown.
You are clearly not temperementally suited to the work you do. You need clear orders, a structure and simple repetitive work.
So when you get to McDonalds don't get too many gold stars or they may promote you to shift supervisor and you won't be able to cope with that.

No point, it'd only read something like this:


Day 2 of my new career and I just met with a guy called Ronald who runs the whole operation (no wonder he's always smiling) who should have met me on day 1. (Edit - to be fair not his fault - he was on a promotional tour)

The generic process designed by him is a high level overview and each station has their own variations depending on output. From my years of experience of being a lardy gut bucket I know that if the output is delivered inconsistently, with too much salt or no cheese for example, no one will eat it (except me of course, nom nom, nom).

No hope of redefining the project plan, revisiting the requirements. Also the stakeholders are either being trained on the drive-thru window, picking their zits or too busy gurning.

It also appears there are other stakeholders (Hamburgler) that need to be involved that have not been so there are huge requirements gaps.

I am supposed to be preparing the McSpec for sign off by next Friday.

What do I do?

McPoll to follow.

doodab
15th September 2011, 11:11
Please advise on

a) How to force people to attend workshops and contribute.
b) How to insert another 2 weeks into the plan without any of the dates slipping.

:rolleyes:

a) at gunpoint
b) by cutting out most of the testing

Although I should mention that when I referred to evidence of practical experience I was referring to NAT & MTT's insights into the inner workings of McDonalds

jmo21
15th September 2011, 11:19
Please advise on

a) How to force people to attend workshops and contribute.

:rolleyes:

If it's not in the plan, and they won't turn up to get stuff added to the plan (ignoring timescale slip this would cause), how is it your problem?

Of course you want to do the right thing, but so long as you have evidence that they did not engage, you're covered.

Then 6 months down the line (or whatever) when you deliver, they start to show interest, you get a nice fat extension to do some more work.

alreadypacked
15th September 2011, 11:19
Please advise on

a) How to force people to attend workshops and contribute.
b) How to insert another 2 weeks into the plan without any of the dates slipping.

:rolleyes:

a) I always try to have a face to face with the stakeholders, find out what they want from the project.
Ask them to attend the meeting as we want to discuss what might need to be dropped from the project if it can't all be completed.

b) See a.
Always tell them there are 3 main things in projects, Quality, Cheep and Speed. Pick two.

cojak
15th September 2011, 11:20
Week 2 on the project and I just met with the business analyst who should have handed over to me in week 1. (Edit - to be fair not his doing)

The generic process designed by him is a high level overview and each department has their own variations on a theme. The consultancy has quoted for delivering the generic process, yet from my workshops it is clear that if this is delivered no one will use the system.

No hope of redefining the project plan, revisiting the requirements. Also the stakeholders are either on holiday, too busy to attend workshops or cannot be arsed.

It also appears there are other stakeholders that need to be involved that have not been so there are huge requirements gaps.

I am supposed to be preparing the f-spec for sign off by next Friday. :suicide:

What do I do?

Poll to follow.

Welcome to the real world.

If you look for the perfect project you'll be benched more often than not.

Mich the Tester
15th September 2011, 11:23
Welcome to the real world.

If you look for the perfect project you'll be benched more often than not.

WCS, besides, if clientcos had a bloody clue what they're doing they wouldn't need contractors, so stop whingeing and invoice.

2BIT
15th September 2011, 11:29
it's the kind of environment which, whilst never fun, could ensure you get extended time and time again - as long as you make sure you are excellent - that is being positive, doing things others should have done and basically being proactive

Mich the Tester
15th September 2011, 11:31
it's the kind of environment which, whilst never fun, could ensure you get extended time and time again - as long as you make sure you are excellent - that is being positive, doing things others should have done and basically being proactive...and always carrying a piece of paper headed 'URGENT' in large block capitals when wandering about the place.

Churchill
15th September 2011, 11:34
...and always carrying a piece of paper headed 'TOP SECRET - Afganistan, the final solution' in large block capitals when wandering about the place.

Just don't let the press see it as you're leaving Number 10...

eek
15th September 2011, 11:37
Please advise on

a) How to force people to attend workshops and contribute.
b) How to insert another 2 weeks into the plan without any of the dates slipping.

:rolleyes:

a) By pointing out that unless you attend your input won't be received and it will be deemed that you are happy with the final output.
b) As said elsewhere bin the testing as the client doesn't want to be paying for it anyway. You next aim is then get an acceptance document from them ASAP so you can bill all bug fixes as changes to scope.

vetran
15th September 2011, 11:42
Please advise on

a) How to force people to attend workshops and contribute.
b) How to insert another 2 weeks into the plan without any of the dates slipping.

:rolleyes:

Two options gently or with Force. If anyone know of a better solution love to hear it. I have however found fluttering my eyelashes doesn't work. Our harassment at work policy forbids me offering sexual favours.

1. Find out what they want from the project (watercooler project management) and tell them what they need to do and agree when, email a summary because of your lousy memory. If that gets no results move to 2.

2. Document the invite,Send repeatedly with clear indication of the penalties to the project of non attendance. Pop in your weekly report to stakeholders the non attendance as a risk.

Churchill
15th September 2011, 11:45
Have a proper project kick-off meeting just before lunchtime and then head off down the pub.

FiveTimes
15th September 2011, 11:49
The BA is a fellow CUKer :eek:

:popcorn:

Do tell more :laugh

vetran
15th September 2011, 11:56
Actually this was quite interesting

Influencing Project Stakeholders | Project Stakeholder Management (http://www.projectstakeholder.com/2008/08/12/influencing-project-stakeholders-what-we-can-learn-from-cigarette-adverts/)

Scrag Meister
15th September 2011, 12:00
The BA is a fellow CUKer :eek:

:popcorn:

Do they know who you are on the board?

Do you know their name on the board?

Or was it just a passing comment that he frequented the site.

Keep your mouth shut, and just say you're some respectable, like... Oh I don't know... Cojak. :D

suityou01
15th September 2011, 12:24
I think I may have failed to convey how hopeless this situation is.

If there is no time to define the specs in any detail, and no one wants to contribute then the only option is to deliver a pile of crap that no one will use.

I'm just not comfortable with this as I have standards.

Why do people on here say that I am looking for the perfect project? No such thing exists, but there are vaguely achievable projects and one of those was what I was sold at interview. The reality is far from what I was sold.

I think the balls out responses on here are not fully understanding that nothing can be done other than wait to fail, even if weekends were worked.

Mich the Tester
15th September 2011, 12:27
I think I may have failed to convey how hopeless this situation is.

If there is no time to define the specs in any detail, and no one wants to contribute then the only option is to deliver a pile of crap that no one will use.

I'm just not comfortable with this as I have standards.

Why do people on here say that I am looking for the perfect project? No such thing exists, but there are vaguely achievable projects and one of those was what I was sold at interview. The reality is far from what I was sold.

I think the balls out responses on here are not fully understanding that nothing can be done other than wait to fail, even if weekends were worked.

...at 200% pay I hope.

mudskipper
15th September 2011, 12:29
I think it's about presence / charisma - very difficult to master.

Some people walk into an office, exuding confidence and control, talk to everyone and get them onside and immediately have influence. (These people are often also bulltulipters, but occasionally you get one who's got both charisma and know-how - they're the one's the DO deserve their rate)

Others shuffle in and moan about what's wrong, but aren't able actually take control and put it right. (I'm a shuffler, so nothing personal intended)

Don't know how you master the charisma thing, and guess if you've already shown yourself to be a shuffler it's too late.

Perhaps a sharp suit, firm handshake and line of charlie would do the trick... ;)

Churchill
15th September 2011, 12:33
I think I may have failed to convey how hopeless this situation is.

If there is no time to define the specs in any detail, and no one wants to contribute then the only option is to deliver a pile of crap that no one will use.

I'm just not comfortable with this as I have standards.

Why do people on here say that I am looking for the perfect project? No such thing exists, but there are vaguely achievable projects and one of those was what I was sold at interview. The reality is far from what I was sold.

I think the balls out responses on here are not fully understanding that nothing can be done other than wait to fail, even if weekends were worked.

Ok, if you're serious about it being complete ratsh!t give them my number, I'll be there at 09:00 on Monday to sort this out.

I promise I won't piss on your shoes.

FiveTimes
15th September 2011, 12:33
Ok, if you're serious about it being complete ratsh!t give them my number, I'll be there at 09:00 on Monday to sort this out.

I promise I won't piss on your shoes again .

ftfy

Churchill
15th September 2011, 12:34
ftfy

Shush! He didn't know it was me!

Mich the Tester
15th September 2011, 12:35
I promise I won't piss on your shoes.


ftfy

Better keep an eye on your pockets suity.

sasguru
15th September 2011, 12:36
Some people walk into an office, exuding confidence and control, talk to everyone and get them onside and immediately have influence. (.... occasionally you get one who's got both charisma and know-how ...:smokin.)

Perhaps a sharp suit, firm handshake do the trick...:smokin


WSS.

Voyage
15th September 2011, 12:47
Do tell more :laugh

I am that BA.

I do limited hopes of success for the project. My advice is to leave it to the PM who wants to act in all roles, even the stakeholders. Hold a meeting that no one will attend then go to the pub:banana:

eek
15th September 2011, 12:52
I am that BA.

I do limited hopes of success for the project. My advice is to leave it to the PM who wants to act in all roles, even the stakeholders. Hold a meeting that no one will attend then go to the pub:banana:

Blooming Heck. MF's standard advice of "Twat the project manager" is on the ball again.

suityou01
15th September 2011, 14:07
I am that BA.

I do limited hopes of success for the project. My advice is to leave it to the PM who wants to act in all roles, even the stakeholders. Hold a meeting that no one will attend then go to the pub:banana:

Sorry mate, you sent me asleep, say again? :laugh

2BIT
15th September 2011, 14:15
Please advise on

a) How to force people to attend workshops and contribute.
b) How to insert another 2 weeks into the plan without any of the dates slipping.

:rolleyes:

you cant and you cant - but both are very manageable..... all about documentation, picking your battles, choosing your moments, finding allies, playing the game and other very generic catch all phrases

project work is perfect for contractors - just had to fight off my old company who wanted to renew me for 9 months at 50% above my prev rate - reason? it's fixed price project work and they are absolutely desperate - simply wouldn't happen to me in any other scenario

Voyage
15th September 2011, 14:15
Sorry mate, you sent me asleep, say again? :laugh

Just woke up myself. That's OK I'll just throw something at you when I see you nod off again.:zzzz:

Shhh here comes the PM :suicide:

Churchill
15th September 2011, 14:18
During the North African Campagne,
a bunch of soldier boys had been on a long hike,
and they arrived in a little town callled Casino.
The next morning, being Sunday,several of the boys went to church.
A Sargent commanded the boys in church,
and after the chaplain had read the prayer,
the text was taken up next.
Those of the boys who had a prayer books took them out,
but, this one boyhad only a deck of cards,
and so he spread them out.
The Sargent saw the cards and said, "Soldier, put away those cards".
After the services were over, the soldier was taken prisoner,
and brought before the Provost Marshall.
The marshall said " Sergeant, why have you brought this man here?"
"For playing cards in church Sir."
"And what have you to say for yourself Son?"
"Much, Sir," replied the soldier.
The marshall said, " I hope so, for if not,
I shall punish you more than any man was ever punished."
The soldier said, "Sir, I have been on the march for about six days,
I have neither Bible nor prayerbook, but I hope to satisfy you, Sir,
with the purity of my intentions."
And with that, the boy started his story.
"You see sir, when I look at the Ace,
it reminds me that there is but one God,
and the deuce, reminds me that the bible is divided
into two parts, the old and the new testament.
When I see the trey, I think of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.
And when I see the four,I think of the four Evangelists who preached
the Gospel There was Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
And when I see the five, it reminds me of the five wise virgins
who trimmed their lamps, there were ten of them,
Five were wise and were saved, five were foolish,
and were shut out.
When I see the six, it reminds me that in six days,
God made this great Heaven and Earth.
When I see the seven, it reminds me that on the seventh day,
God rested from His great work.
And when I see the eight, I think of the eight rightous persons
God saved when he destroyed this Earth.
There was Noah, his wife, their three sons, and their wives.
And when I see the nine, I think of the lepers our Saviour cleansed,
and, nine out of the ten, didn't even thank him.
When I see the ten, I think of the ten commandments,
God handed down to Moses on a table of stone.
When I see the king, it reminds me that there is but one King of Heaven,
God Almighty.
And when I see the Queen, I think of the Blessed Virgin Mary,
Who is Queen of Heaven, and the Jack of Knaves is the Devil.
When I count the number of spots in a deck of cards,
I find 365, the number of days in a year.
There are 52 cards, the number of weeks in a year.
There are four suits, the number of weeks in a month.
There are twelve picture cards, the number of months in a year.
There are thirteen tricks, the number of weeks in a quarter.
So, you see Sir, my pack of cards serves me as a Bible,
an Almanac, and a prayerbook.
And Friends, the story is true, I know,
I was that soldier.

Ftfy :D

MarillionFan
15th September 2011, 16:07
Blooming Heck. MF's standard advice of "Twat the project manager" is on the ball again.

Never fails. Unless of course you are the project manager at which point, blame the BA.

DS23
15th September 2011, 16:12
....Always tell them there are 3 main things in projects, Quality, Cheap and Speed. Pick two.

:rollin:

realityhack
15th September 2011, 23:36
SY,

I've never worked on any project that ticked all the right boxes and ran completely smoothly - at least not under the surface.
There are all sorts of issues & risks that crop up. Your job is to use what experience you have to anticipate them, any political sense to manage and mitigate them, your guile (and a bit of elbow-grease) to document them and close any gaps you can, while driving the damn thing forward & covering your arse at the same time. You've got to be more pragmatic and less idealistic. It's admirable that you have a heart for the best quality product outcome but balance this with the inevitable compromises of a typical megacorp environment and all the bull:tulip: that entails.

Managed well, this could prove to be a long-term moneyspinner. I'd keep invoicing and practice those product stakeholder management skills.

Old Greg
16th September 2011, 08:24
Man up and show some passive aggression.

Helpfully raise risks detailing what might happen, why, and what impact etc. (i.e. raise risks), and escalate them appropriately. You've then made sure that someone else is responsible - you have alerted the client to what may go wrong and they have chosen to go ahead anyway. You have then done your level best to deliver anyway, but unfortunately it went wrong, just as you predicted. This is what I live for.

2BIT
16th September 2011, 08:46
Man up and show some passive aggression.

Helpfully raise risks detailing what might happen, why, and what impact etc. (i.e. raise risks), and escalate them appropriately. You've then made sure that someone else is responsible - you have alerted the client to what may go wrong and they have chosen to go ahead anyway. You have then done your level best to deliver anyway, but unfortunately it went wrong, just as you predicted. This is what I live for.

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to old greg again"

well this is it for me, spot on - and exactly what i meant by the impossible situations being manageable

Old Greg
16th September 2011, 10:03
"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to old greg again"

well this is it for me, spot on - and exactly what i meant by the impossible situations being manageable

I'm considering writing a book on passive aggressive project management.

MarillionFan
16th September 2011, 10:09
I'm considering writing a book on passive aggressive project management.

In your case, you don't need to include the PM bit. :eyes

suityou01
16th September 2011, 13:04
An update :

I ran the meeting today and was clear about progress, lack of attendance, lack of interest. I am documenting all that I am short of and need to progress and escalating to the PM for his risk log. I am also presenting attendance records from the workshops.

Every time someone tried to hijack the meeting or digress I quickly but politely snatched it back.

I have also informed the PM there are two options, deliver a shorter F-spec, dropping out of scope the requirements that are not yet clearly defined, or extending the analysis phase and running a requirements sprint to deliver a complete set of requirements.

So, how's that for starters? :rolleyes:

Old Greg
16th September 2011, 13:17
An update :

I ran the meeting today and was clear about progress, lack of attendance, lack of interest. I am documenting all that I am short of and need to progress and escalating to the PM for his risk log. I am also presenting attendance records from the workshops.

Every time someone tried to hijack the meeting or digress I quickly but politely snatched it back.

I have also informed the PM there are two options, deliver a shorter F-spec, dropping out of scope the requirements that are not yet clearly defined, or extending the analysis phase and running a requirements sprint to deliver a complete set of requirements.

So, how's that for starters? :rolleyes:

The other option is doing a half arsed job of it and given the lack of interest, that may be a better strategic fit.

suityou01
16th September 2011, 13:22
The other option is doing a half arsed job of it and given the lack of interest, that may be a better strategic fit.

That was option 1, you tard. :rolleyes:

MarillionFan
16th September 2011, 13:23
An update :

I ran the meeting today and was clear about progress, lack of attendance, lack of interest. I am documenting all that I am short of and need to progress and escalating to the PM for his risk log. I am also presenting attendance records from the workshops.

Every time someone tried to hijack the meeting or digress I quickly but politely snatched it back.

I have also informed the PM there are two options, deliver a shorter F-spec, dropping out of scope the requirements that are not yet clearly defined, or extending the analysis phase and running a requirements sprint to deliver a complete set of requirements.

So, how's that for starters? :rolleyes:

Yeah!! That's the ticket.

<MF in me me me mode>
I've delivered my 4 month project early, (this morning, deadline 5pm), on budget, in time, exceeded the scope & all users up and running.

Client tried to pin something extra on the team yesterday and was shown the risk log, scope document and their own signature agreeing the deliverables they wanted and assumptions we made based on their input. Have agreed that they now need some extra work doing and that they are going to stump up some more cash.

</me me me>

I'm off to the pub and a couple of lines of coke. Have a good weekend.:music:

Old Greg
16th September 2011, 13:24
That was option 1, you tard. :rolleyes:

Option 1, then.

MarillionFan
16th September 2011, 13:25
That was option 1, you tard. :rolleyes:


Option 1, then.

Let Suity check that. He may want to descope that and put it at risk.

suityou01
16th September 2011, 13:27
Let Suity check that. He may want to descope that and put it at risk.

And if I do it's your tough shit. :laugh

:fight:

Old Greg
16th September 2011, 13:29
Of course the other option is to mumble something like, 'Agile, iterative, Scrum', send your last invoice and run.

Mich the Tester
16th September 2011, 13:30
Of course the other option is to mumble something like, 'Agile, iterative, Scrum', send your last invoice and run.
No, stay and send some more invoices; only run just before the shit hits the fan.

MarillionFan
16th September 2011, 13:33
And if I do it's your tough tulip. :laugh

:fight:

Have you put yourself on the risk list.

Risk No 23 : Business Analyst. BA is in-experienced and continually descopes requirements and questions PM.

Solution: Put in stationary cupboard and throw away key.

eek
16th September 2011, 13:36
Of course the other option is to mumble something like, 'Agile, iterative, Scrum', send your last invoice and sprint.

FTFY but if you are going to use agile terminology you could have had a better joke.

suityou01
16th September 2011, 14:57
Have you put yourself on the risk list.

Risk No 23 : Business Analyst. BA is in-experienced and continually descopes requirements and questions PM.

Solution: Put in stationary cupboard and throw away key.

Risks have "mitigation", not solutions, in project terms. Only someone with experience would know this of course. :rolleyes:

eek
16th September 2011, 15:24
Risks have "mitigation", not solutions, in project terms. Only someone with experience would know this of course. :rolleyes:

But when you are paying for experts you are paying them for solutions not mitigations. MF believes himself to be expert so he believes he delivers solutions.

Although based on the work related tulip he posts in general he doesn't seem to be one for mitigating risks that offer an option to twat the person responsible.

MarillionFan
16th September 2011, 15:28
Risks have "mitigation", not solutions, in project terms. Only someone with experience would know this of course. :rolleyes:


But when you are paying for experts you are paying them for solutions not mitigations. MF believes himself to be expert so he believes he delivers solutions.



WHS.

So for Suity at risk, I have a Final Solution. :devil

2BIT
16th September 2011, 15:30
Risks have "mitigation", not solutions, in project terms. Only someone with experience would know this of course. :rolleyes:

try working on an 'Agile' fixed price project with no Agreed Requirements, WBS, Delivery Schedule, User Acceptance Process or Risk Register - if you do find yourself working such a project like I did man up and kick some arse...... then increase your rate for the next renewal

last project i was was exactly like this but was also top heavy in terms of BA's (or excel jockeys as they actually were) - on the third day in they asked for my comments on how it was going, asked for all these key project docs and they just looked confused..... flash foward 2 months when everything is going to shit and most of the team had come round to 'my' way of thinking....im not a PM, neve done prince2 or any of that bollix it's just common sense.....well, to some...

suityou01
16th September 2011, 15:34
try working on an 'Agile' fixed price project with no Agreed Requirements, WBS, Delivery Schedule, User Acceptance Process or Risk Register - if you do find yourself working such a project like I did man up and kick some arse...... then increase your rate for the next renewal

last project i was was exactly like this but was also top heavy in terms of BA's (or excel jockeys as they actually were) - on the third day in they asked for my comments on how it was going, asked for all these key project docs and they just looked confused..... flash foward 2 months when everything is going to tulip and most of the team had come round to 'my' way of thinking....im not a PM, neve done prince2 or any of that bollix it's just common sense.....well, to some...

Ah, you're one of those cowboy coder types eh? :laugh

2BIT
16th September 2011, 16:49
Ah, you're one of those cowboy coder types eh? :laugh

yeahtis true,i tend to be the one who actually ends up delivering something, I would love to attend meetings, write poorly constructed documents and design flakey excel models all day but turns out you can earn more doing work instead :)

so yeah your project could be a lot worse, man up dude :)

suityou01
16th September 2011, 20:12
yeahtis true,i tend to be the one who actually ends up delivering something they will never use

ftfy

Hactually the projects that follow a full SDLC last longer and hence more coins. :moon:

2BIT
16th September 2011, 20:29
ftfy

Hactually the projects that follow a full SDLC last longer and hence more coins. :moon:

again tis true but to be honest i thought you were a fellow cowboy and not an excel jockie :grin

and no offence to BA's either, some of my best friends are BA's... :)

suityou01
16th September 2011, 20:38
again tis true but to be honest i thought you were a fellow cowboy and not an excel jockie :grin

and no offence to BA's either, some of my best friends are BA's... :)

No, quite the opposite of a cowboy. Something of a deep thinker, and a perfectionist. This is my downfall.

PS People that say 'Tis are gay. HTH :D

MarillionFan
16th September 2011, 21:05
No, quite the opposite of a cowboy. Something of a deep thinker, and a perfectionist. This is my downfall.

PS People that say 'Tis are gay. HTH :D

Agreed.

Complete opposite of a cowboy. Not an Indian either.

In the Wild West the roughty toughty cowboys needed some
downtime and R&R. That's where SY comes in. He's the equivalent of the young, naive, buck toothed fugly all the other girls in the cathouse pick on who one day is going to fall in love with an outlaw, get accused of helping him to escape from the posse and then get hanged as an accessory.

That's our SY.

suityou01
17th September 2011, 10:23
Agreed.

Complete opposite of a cowboy. Not an Indian either.

In the Wild West the roughty toughty cowboys needed some
downtime and R&R. That's where SY comes in. He's the equivalent of the young, naive, buck toothed fugly all the other girls in the cathouse pick on who one day is going to fall in love with an outlaw, get accused of helping him to escape from the posse and then get hanged as an accessory.

That's our SY.

It's a load of Bobs on the project

They're all really nice

And people that say "roughty toughty" are definately gay :D

2BIT
19th September 2011, 11:43
No, quite the opposite of a cowboy. Something of a deep thinker, and a perfectionist. This is my downfall.



that's what all the cowboys say :) Deep thinker? perfectionist? BA? hmmm something doesn't reconcile here... :)

MarillionFan
16th October 2013, 03:43
Ask yourself "What would MF do?" and plumb for the opposite.

Actually do as MF says. In less than 3 weeks I look to successfully deliver the most fookin poisonous chalice project of my entire career to over 1000 users. 11 trips to the US, over 130 days in shit hotels, stupidly long days (again 18 hours today) , more politics than a US debt default and more CYA than a Miley Cyrus video on Iranian TV. If this doesn't fook up in the last 21 days at the last hurdle then I have just pulled off the pinnacle of my entire IT career. Otherwise feel free to give me a good CUK kicking. (Or do if I pull it off as well :-) )

Churchill
16th October 2013, 05:04
Actually do as MF says. In less than 3 weeks I look to successfully deliver the most fookin poisonous chalice project of my entire career to over 1000 users. 11 trips to the US, over 130 days in shit hotels, stupidly long days (again 18 hours today) , more politics than a US debt default and more CYA than a Miley Cyrus video on Iranian TV. If this doesn't fook up in the last 21 days at the last hurdle then I have just pulled off the pinnacle of my entire IT career. Otherwise feel free to give me a good CUK kicking. (Or do if I pull it off as well :-) )

Correct me if I'm wrong but...

You're only doing what they're paying you to do.

Jesus, keep at it long enough and you're bound to get something right.

doodab
16th October 2013, 05:50
keep at it long enough and you're bound to get something right.

I fear your logic may be flawed.

suityou01
16th October 2013, 06:51
Actually do as MF says. In less than 3 weeks I look to successfully deliver the most fookin poisonous chalice project of my entire career to over 1000 users. 11 trips to the US, over 130 days in tulip hotels, stupidly long days (again 18 hours today) , more politics than a US debt default and more CYA than a Miley Cyrus video on Iranian TV. If this doesn't fook up in the last 21 days at the last hurdle then I have just pulled off the pinnacle of my entire IT career. Otherwise feel free to give me a good CUK kicking. (Or do if I pull it off as well :-) )

I thought you got shitcanned, had refused to go back to the states and weren't allowed anywhere near it? :confused:

Note to MF's writers : Twists in the tail should at least evolve from some already known premise, not just be some random juxtaposed turn of events. :ohwell

MarillionFan
16th October 2013, 10:52
Correct me if I'm wrong but...

You're only doing what they're paying you to do.

Jesus, keep at it long enough and you're bound to get something right.

Your logic is flawed. In most cases projects like this fail. To be fair it's the third time. First one was a fail. Second one I picked up in the middle and it failed because it wasn't documented properly. 3rd time I was in charge. It's late, six months behind the original schedule due to development issues outside of my control but its going live in 3 weeks. Once this is done I'm going contracting again. I can do without the stress.

Churchill
16th October 2013, 10:54
Your logic is flawed. In most cases projects like this fail. To be fair it's the third time. First one was a fail. Second one I picked up in the middle and it failed because it wasn't documented properly. 3rd time I was in charge. It's late, six months behind the original schedule due to development issues outside of my control but its going live in 3 weeks. Once this is done I'm going contracting again. I can do without the stress.

Oi Suity! There's a job going at MF's gig!

suityou01
16th October 2013, 11:49
Oi Suity! There's a job going at MF's gig!

Yeah but it's permie :puke:

FiveTimes
16th October 2013, 11:57
Yeah but it's permie :puke:

but with loads of share options.

suityou01
16th October 2013, 12:05
but with loads of share options.

:laugh

I'm not as stupid as some folks. :tongue

MarillionFan
25th October 2013, 02:14
Your logic is flawed. In most cases projects like this fail. To be fair it's the third time. First one was a fail. Second one I picked up in the middle and it failed because it wasn't documented properly. 3rd time I was in charge. It's late, six months behind the original schedule due to development issues outside of my control but its going live in 3 weeks. Once this is done I'm going contracting again. I can do without the stress.

COME ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Greatest comeback since Man Utd versus Bayern Munich.

Its coming home, its coming home, MFs coming home.

I own this bitch.:music:

Churchill
25th October 2013, 03:16
COME ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Greatest comeback since Man Utd versus Bayern Munich.

Its coming home, its coming home, MFs coming home.

I own this bitch.:music:

*yawn*

MarillionFan
25th October 2013, 03:28
*yawn*

Please update the insomnia thread if you're having trouble sleeping. :happy

Churchill
25th October 2013, 03:55
Please update the insomnia thread if you're having trouble sleeping. :happy

Don't confuse tiredness with boredom.

MarillionFan
25th October 2013, 04:08
Don't confuse tiredness with boredom.

Very early to be up. Are you stressed? Is junior up early? Do you want to talk about it?

Churchill
25th October 2013, 04:19
Very early to be up. Are you stressed? Is junior up early? Do you want to talk about it?

Yes it is.
No.
I don't know, I work away during the week. In any case I doubt it as he's a very good sleeper, 7pm to 7am usually.
Talk about what?

In that order.

MarillionFan
25th October 2013, 04:34
Yes it is.
No.
I don't know, I work away during the week. In any case I doubt it as he's a very good sleeper, 7pm to 7am usually.
Talk about what?

In that order.

Early or late depending on the location.
How come you're working away? Thought that you had that local?
Maybe a good sleeper, but does being away from home piss you off, I know it does me?
Why the hell you're up so early?

In that order.

Churchill
25th October 2013, 04:39
Early or late depending on the location.
How come you're working away? Thought that you had that local?
Maybe a good sleeper, but does being away from home piss you off, I know it does me?
Why the hell you're up so early?

In that order.

Being away from home does piss me off but the money is good and the weekends even better.

Not far from your neck of the woods as a matter of fact. Not Farnborough, slightly further West.

Flu jab has left me feeling achey, can't get comfy to go back to sleep. Anyway, nearly shower time and I'm finishing at 12:00 so not all bad.

MarillionFan
25th October 2013, 04:46
Being away from home does piss me off but the money is good and the weekends even better.

Not far from your neck of the woods as a matter of fact. Not Farnborough, slightly further West.

Flu jab has left me feeling achey, can't get comfy to go back to sleep. Anyway, nearly shower time and I'm finishing at 12:00 so not all bad.

Money vs pain in the arse is what sets us all apart from the rest.
A beer, a meet and a possible slap is probably in order after all these years. ;-)
Hi Suity. :wave:
Fookin Part timer.:D

Churchill
25th October 2013, 04:49
Money vs pain in the arse is what sets us all apart from the rest.
A beer, a meet and a possible slap is probably in order after all these years. ;-)
Hi Suity. :wave:
Fookin Part timer.:D

You Sir, are on!

When are you next home?

MaryPoppins
25th October 2013, 06:00
You Sir, are on!

When are you next home?

blimey. can I come?

Churchill
25th October 2013, 06:16
blimey. can I come?

Are you in Hampshire?

suityou01
25th October 2013, 07:00
Are you in Hampshire?

Only when you lot are working away from home :smokin

mudskipper
25th October 2013, 07:46
You're welcome to our Tuesday drinks if we can ever agree a location....

Churchill
25th October 2013, 07:49
You're welcome to our Tuesday drinks if we can ever agree a location....

I'm not heading into the smoke just to slap baldy round the head. Camberley/Hook/Para Town/Yately/Farnborough are my city limits.

mudskipper
25th October 2013, 07:50
I'm not heading into the smoke just to slap baldy round the head. Camberley/Hook/Para Town/Yately/Farnborough are my city limits.

Not in the smoke. Hence the thread entitled 'Farnborough drinkies'

Scruff
25th October 2013, 07:56
Holy thread resurrection....

We are due to have our Heavenly connection on Tuesday evening - how about a Ruby at the Gurkha Palace at 7pm?

Churchill
25th October 2013, 08:03
Not in the smoke. Hence the thread entitled 'Farnborough drinkies'

Ahh, not seen it. Will have a look.

I thought you were referring to the London Coven and the rest of the witches of Macbeth!

Churchill
25th October 2013, 08:04
Holy thread resurrection....

We are due to have our Heavenly connection on Tuesday evening - how about a Ruby at the Gurkha Palace at 7pm?

Pardon me for asking but who the fck are you, again?

MaryPoppins
25th October 2013, 08:05
I'm not heading into the smoke just to slap baldy round the head.

Not even if I'm there??

Churchill
25th October 2013, 08:07
Not even if I'm there??

Erm CM wouldn't be too happy, she knows I've got the hots for you!

MaryPoppins
25th October 2013, 08:10
Erm CM wouldn't be too happy, she knows I've got the hots for you!

Tell her to get back in the ruddy kitchen then

Churchill
25th October 2013, 08:13
Tell her to get back in the ruddy kitchen then

Oh yeah, easy for you to say!

mudskipper
25th October 2013, 08:13
Holy thread resurrection....

We are due to have our Heavenly connection on Tuesday evening - how about a Ruby at the Gurkha Palace at 7pm?

I don't like spicy. However they have some dishes marked 'very mild', so I don't mind giving it a go. The problem with a restaurant is booking and fixed times - people don't turn up who say they will and vice versa - also some people want to pop in after work for an hour, others come later and want to stay till closing.

From that point of view a pub that serves food would be a better bet. If Fleet's a goer for everyone, then 'The Station' (conveniently located!) has been recently refurbed and does decent pizza/burger menu and has comfy sofas!

Scruff
25th October 2013, 08:18
Pardon me for asking but who the fck are you, again?

Come along and you will find out? Dare I say, less of the cigar and bowler hat though...

NigelJK
25th October 2013, 10:18
back near the beinning of this thread there were 2 options 'a' and 'b'.
What I would have done is the first part of 'b', then watch as 'a' suddenly happened.

suityou01
25th October 2013, 10:26
back near the beinning of this thread there were 2 options 'a' and 'b'.
What I would have done is the first part of 'b', then watch as 'a' suddenly happened.

Read the first page and a half of posts and couldn't see any a/b type options. I found a 1/2/3.

Care to give a hint as to which post number you are referring to? :D

CoolCat
25th October 2013, 11:16
That’s nothing I have been handed projects days before commissioning was due to start with mega serious problems. One that springs to mind they had the executables ready but all the source code had been deleted with no backups…

Old Greg
25th October 2013, 11:45
That’s nothing I have been handed projects days before commissioning was due to start with mega serious problems. One that springs to mind they had the executables ready but all the source code had been deleted with no backups…

And did you deal with it by whining about it on CUK?

suityou01
25th October 2013, 11:50
And did you deal with it by whining about it on CUK?

Probably not, which makes me a far more interesting contributor to this here forum so :moon:

vetran
25th October 2013, 14:38
here you go Suity:

Adult diapers to outsell baby nappies by end of decade in Japan - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/10180069/Adult-diapers-to-outsell-baby-nappies-by-end-of-decade-in-Japan.html)

DirtyDog
25th October 2013, 15:35
here you go Suity:

Adult diapers to outsell baby nappies by end of decade in Japan - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/10180069/Adult-diapers-to-outsell-baby-nappies-by-end-of-decade-in-Japan.html)

According to The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/young-people-japan-stopped-having-sex), that happened last year.

vetran
25th October 2013, 16:37
According to The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/young-people-japan-stopped-having-sex), that happened last year.

and you believe that lefty Rag over the Torygraph :eek

I better check what the Wail says........ yes her house is worth 31M Yen.
Her Pekingese is an immigrant and she probably hates traffic wardens.

Heaven forfend if the Graunaid is right then when did Suity go to Japan?

doodab
25th October 2013, 17:08
According to The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/young-people-japan-stopped-having-sex), that happened last year.


Lacking long-term shared goals, many are turning to what she terms "Pot Noodle love"

:rollin:

If only she knew...

No2politics
25th October 2013, 19:55
a) I always try to have a face to face with the stakeholders, find out what they want from the project.
Ask them to attend the meeting as we want to discuss what might need to be dropped from the project if it can't all be completed.

b) See a.
Always tell them there are 3 main things in projects, Quality, Cheep and Speed. Pick two.

I have used b before. Another personal favourite.

"What you are asking for is a miracle. And miracles cost money"

doodab
25th October 2013, 20:00
I have used b before. Another personal favourite.

"What you are asking for is a miracle. And miracles cost money"

"I'm a genius, not a miracle worker"

From Escape to Victory, a vastly underrated film.

No2politics
26th October 2013, 06:45
"I'm a genius, not a miracle worker"

From Escape to Victory, a vastly underrated film.

Great film!

MarillionFan
12th November 2013, 22:03
Actually do as MF says. In less than 3 weeks I look to successfully deliver the most fookin poisonous chalice project of my entire career to over 1000 users. 11 trips to the US, over 130 days in tulip hotels, stupidly long days (again 18 hours today) , more politics than a US debt default and more CYA than a Miley Cyrus video on Iranian TV. If this doesn't fook up in the last 21 days at the last hurdle then I have just pulled off the pinnacle of my entire IT career. Otherwise feel free to give me a good CUK kicking. (Or do if I pull it off as well :-) )

The fooker went live. An entire team of people worldwide to deal with the fall out of this major change if we'd got something wrong.

My team flown to the corners of the world.

Deployment was two hours quicker than expected.

Tested until late Saturday morning, picked up no bloody problems.

Monday morning, worldwide training took place, (not run by me as we have a 'communications' expert). Numerous questions, I was on the panel & answered them all. Tuesday, a few minor issues but no showstoppers. In fact, the whole thing went so smoothly my entire team & the development team are left scratching our heads, while a number of 'other' people jumped on the bandwagon at the last second to take the glory as they'd done the comms & training. Because there were no problems / nothing to recover from it's like a damp squib. It's like Y2K all over again.

I've never felt so fookin deflated in my life. :frown

suityou01
12th November 2013, 22:04
You did well. Tikabooson. :yay:

MarillionFan
12th November 2013, 22:06
You did well. Tikabooson. :yay:

I'm going to have a couple of beers and then pick on a small dutchman in a pub.:frown

suityou01
12th November 2013, 22:42
I'm going to have a couple of beers and then pick on a small dutchman in a pub.:frown

Standard.

mudskipper
13th November 2013, 06:00
Sounds like a success :) :banana:

But yep, know what you mean, if it all looks too easy no-one appreciates how damned hard it was!

MarillionFan
16th April 2014, 17:49
The fooker went live. An entire team of people worldwide to deal with the fall out of this major change if we'd got something wrong.

My team flown to the corners of the world.

Deployment was two hours quicker than expected.

Tested until late Saturday morning, picked up no bloody problems.

Monday morning, worldwide training took place, (not run by me as we have a 'communications' expert). Numerous questions, I was on the panel & answered them all. Tuesday, a few minor issues but no showstoppers. In fact, the whole thing went so smoothly my entire team & the development team are left scratching our heads, while a number of 'other' people jumped on the bandwagon at the last second to take the glory as they'd done the comms & training. Because there were no problems / nothing to recover from it's like a damp squib. It's like Y2K all over again.

I've never felt so fookin deflated in my life. :frown

Phase 3 and 4 final phases go live May 12th. The last two phases worked will 3 and 4. I have resigned my position and when this fecker is over I move into a new role. 18 months of sheer hassle.

Bunk
16th April 2014, 18:41
I have resigned my position

Again? :eyes

suityou01
16th April 2014, 20:38
You want PermieUK.

HTH.

MarillionFan
7th July 2014, 07:14
Phase 3 and 4 final phases go live May 12th. The last two phases worked will 3 and 4. I have resigned my position and when this fecker is over I move into a new role. 18 months of sheer hassle.

Phases 3 and 4 failed to go live in May. Phase 4 went live 80% in June. A whole heap of fallout but due to my canny decision to resign half my role earlier I avoided the fallout.

During testing they decided that the '4 more weeks worth of dev' was actually another 9 months. How a dev team can it so wrong and still noone fired is amazing.

Then having handed over half my team & responsibilities a shit storm kicked off over the massive corporate data warehouse I had built outside of IT & for the sakes of peace and goodwill I handed it over to the new BI Director in IT with head count.

Then finally last week once the handovers were complete my boss got removed and I got a new one, green and from outside the company. 'What do you do?' was the first question. 'Ah well......' said I

Trying to hang on until August bonus.:grin

suityou01
8th July 2014, 07:29
Break him. Ahem. I mean in gently. :D


Sent from my iMinion using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1) :rolleyes:

speling bee
8th July 2014, 07:55
This very morning I have made the offer to do the proverbial walk to the potting shed with a bottle of scotch and my old service revolver, over one of the two projects I am kicking off. Nice thing about contracting is that I can just walk away. It has failure and misery watermarked into the documentation and life is too short. Interestingly my client, a very nice and competent chap, tolerates a contractor 50% of whose colleagues refuse to work with her. One client has also requested her off the project for personal reasons. Most odd.