IR35, Control what

**Sockpuppet** · 6 October 2011, 22:35

The agency says the contract is as IR35 compliant as it could get and he's place other Ltd co's with it.

Any you believe that?

Does this sound like I haven't got enough control over what I'll be doing? And so I'm caught by IR35?

Get it reviewed by people that know. Even if you are IR35 caught an LTD can be slightly more cost effective than PAYE.

**Greg@CapitalCity** · 6 October 2011, 22:49

Yep, agree with sockpuppet. The job ad and interview will really form no basis at all for your IR35 position. I think speak with a specialist such as Bauer & Cottrell, or Roger Sinclair (Contract lawyer (UK) Roger Sinclair Egos Ltd) and get them to explain to you the practicalities of what working outside of IR35 actually entails. There will always be factors that point toward IR35, and other factors that point away from it. Its just a matter of balancing those up, and by speaking with an expert you will know what to look for. I would not suggest talking to an accountant, or your friends, about IR35 - its a matter of employment law and there are numerous experts who can help you.

Also, with AWR now implemented, end-clients have a new incentive to ensure you operate outside of IR35 - so that will also work in your favour.

**Pacciae** · 7 October 2011, 08:12

you should get advice from experts like Qdos Qdos Consulting - Taxation and VAT - Employment Law - Insurance - IR35 .

**Danielsjdaccountancy** · 7 October 2011, 08:16

Originally posted by PTP View Post

Hi

I've been offered a contract and am trying to decide whether to follow the path the agency is leading me down - Ltd co, or whether to stay safe with umbrella.

The agency says the contract is as IR35 compliant as it could get and he's place other Ltd co's with it.

From reading IR35 guides and test cases, I'm nervous that even if a service like Qdos reviewed it and said it looked good on paper, they wouldn't really know what the work is like in practice or would they?

The client has a project coming up that matches my experience and that's of course what got them interested in me. However, in the job advert and at interview, the client said that:
*The project isn't ready to start yet and so I'd be be doing other similar tasks first - without specifically saying which ones
*Even once the project starts, I might still be doing these other similar tasks or moving between them and the project

Does this sound like I haven't got enough control over what I'll be doing? And so I'm caught by IR35?

Thanks

PCG Accredited accountants can review contracts for you as we have passed the courses. I think the fact the client has you working on tasks which don't relate to the job you agreed your contract for is a sign of control from the client.
If they are not ready for you to start then you should find another contract until they are ready, otherwise how is it any different to employment?

HTH

**rd409** · 7 October 2011, 08:43

There is a subtle difference in how you put this.

1) You are there to work only on project A, but due to some reasons, the project has not yet started. For a change, when you are at client site, you offer to provide your expertise to another project B, with different skill set. All you do is get a request from client for the project B. Remember, it is a favour, and you can definitely refuse to provide your services.

2) The client tells you to work on project B, and you are obliged to work as you are contracted for time at the client site.

The former can be classed as professional courtesy, but the second one is definite IR35 fail. Make sure, the client understands what are the implications. I would either increase the daily rate under option 2 to cover extra tax liability, if the client is not flexible to accommodate some IR35 friendly working practises.

HTH.

**malvolio** · 7 October 2011, 09:14

Or as I said somewhere else recently, get the client to answer an email where you agree to do this extra work as an extension to your original contract schedule. Yuo don't need to change the schedule, just keep a copy of the email with it in case it's ever needed.

The point to be made is that it is YourCo agreeing to do the work, not them telling you to do it; same result for them, utterly different result for you.

**PTP** · 7 October 2011, 20:09

Thank you for your useful replies rd409 and malvolio

This morning I rushed into signing up to an accountant (min 4 months) and paid the Ltd Co setup costs
I've also ordered a contract check

The more I think of it, the more I reckon I should just do PAYE umbrella

**mudskipper** · 7 October 2011, 20:13

Originally posted by PTP View Post

Thank you for your useful replies rd409 and malvolio

This morning I rushed into signing up to an accountant (min 4 months) and paid the Ltd Co setup costs
I've also ordered a contract check

The more I think of it, the more I reckon I should just do PAYE umbrella

No - really you shouldn't. Read the "how many IR35 investigations" thread. Your chances of being investigated are tiny. Join the PCG for their cover for peace of mind (about £200 IIRC).

**prozak** · 10 October 2011, 09:23

Originally posted by PTP View Post

Thank you for your useful replies rd409 and malvolio

This morning I rushed into signing up to an accountant (min 4 months) and paid the Ltd Co setup costs
I've also ordered a contract check

The more I think of it, the more I reckon I should just do PAYE umbrella

Definitely don't do umbrella.

Pay an accountant for now. And if you have the inclination or time learn how to run your company and do your accounts yourself.

It really isn't that hard. you could keep an accountant online for consulatation if you get stuck with anything or ask here!

IR35, Control what