The Economy and the 2 Seater Sports Car

[The Lone Gunman]

Some time ago I read a piece about how the economy can be measured/predicted by the sale of 2 seater sports cars.
The argument that they are such a luxury or frivolous item that they only sell well when people are confident of the economy.

Now I noticed that when we last started on an economic rise that MG, BMW and Mazda all started producing and selling 2 seaters.

Does the panel think that the collapse of TVR is an indicator for the collapse of the economy?

[Churchill]

Some time ago I read a piece about how the economy can be measured/predicted by the sale of 2 seater sports cars.
The argument that they are such a luxury or frivolous item that they only sell well when people are confident of the economy.

Now I noticed that when we last started on an economic rise that MG, BMW and Mazda all started producing and selling 2 seaters.

Does the panel think that the collapse of TVR is an indicator for the collapse of the economy?

Yep, we're all going to die!

[hyperD]

Does the panel think that the collapse of TVR is an indicator for the collapse of the economy?

TVR are not collapsing - sports sales seem buoyant - more here:-

http://forums.contractoruk.com/thread7134.html

And more proof:-

http://www.askaprice.com/torque-article.asp?article=Mazda_make_UK's_favourite_spor ts_cars...&item=993

http://www.mazda.co.uk/AboutMazda/Ma...news03-04-2006

[DimPrawn]

The economy is fine, we are all happy and everything is great.

Now please go away and pass on this message to others.

Thanks,

Tone

[The Lone Gunman]

TVR are not collapsing - sports sales seem buoyant - more here:-

http://forums.contractoruk.com/thread7134.html

And more proof:-

http://www.askaprice.com/torque-article.asp?article=Mazda_make_UK's_favourite_spor ts_cars...&item=993

http://www.mazda.co.uk/AboutMazda/Ma...news03-04-2006

TVR are laying off staff, production is down from 12 to 2 cars a week but you say they are not collapsing? We will have to wait and see.

As for Mazda, well thats a bit of a Noddy job isnt it (no offence Noddy). Its not a real sports car, its just a rag top for paupers who like to think they are in a sports car.
Entry level real sports cars would be the MGF or the Toyota MR2 (in that order).
I will start to worry when they are withdrawn and BMW announce they are ceasing production of the Z4.

[hyperD]

TVR are laying off staff, production is down from 12 to 2 cars a week but you say they are not collapsing? We will have to wait and see.

It does sound bad I agree, and without sounding like a "new" liebour drone, it's been a bit of a restructuring exercise and lessons have been learnt. Some new stuff from the FT today:

TVR 'intends to become another Aston Martin'
By John Griffiths, Motoring Editor
Published: April 26 2006 03:00 | Last updated: April 26 2006 03:00

TVR, far from shutting down in the UK, will become a maker of 5,000 ultra-fast sports cars a year sold around the world under plans being developed by Nikolai Smolensky, the Russian who bought the company two years ago, a senior executive said last night.

Jason Oxley, sales director, whose father David is managing director, said: "The intention is to become another Aston Martin. The issue of our factory at Blackpool closing has been blown up out of all proportion."

[AtW]

Interesting nobody in FT would bother to ask him a very simple question: how is it your father's bank collapsed in 1998 and lots and lots of depositors lost their money, yet, he stayed very wealthy and now lives here?

I am not bitter - we actually had deposits in his dad's bank but we withdrawn them before troubles started (Russian default and major currency devaluation of 1998).

TVR is doomed - it would have been even if it had nice looking cars like (some) Astons.

[Mordac]

Does the panel think that the collapse of TVR is an indicator for the collapse of the economy?

No, it's because the cars keep breaking down.

[GrizzledVet]

To be honest, I think we have been in a recession for the last several years, except that we haven't really realised it yet.

I call it a "delayed recession", or "stealth recession" ; one which is propped up with a mountain of debt, both personal and governmental.

We've been kidding ourselves that, on the whole, everything appears fine but underneath the rot gets worse.

My personal indicator, that I've relied on for years, is to look at the shopping trolleys of people around me in the queues, and notice if there is a preponderance of "value own-brand" products creeping in to the weekly shop.

Of course, if the 30 plus people around you are all lower socio-economic types, then you may reasonably expect that, but I've noted that PPF's are starting to creep in to the baskets and trolleys of higher socio-economic groups.

[expat]

To be honest, I think we have been in a recession for the last several years, except that we haven't really realised it yet.

I call it a "delayed recession", or "stealth recession" ; one which is propped up with a mountain of debt, both personal and governmental.

We've been kidding ourselves that, on the whole, everything appears fine but underneath the rot gets worse.

My personal indicator, that I've relied on for years, is to look at the shopping trolleys of people around me in the queues, and notice if there is a preponderance of "value own-brand" products creeping in to the weekly shop.

Of course, if the 30 plus people around you are all lower socio-economic types, then you may reasonably expect that, but I've noted that PPF's are starting to creep in to the baskets and trolleys of higher socio-economic groups.

I think both your notion of a recession delayed by credit, and your indicator of feeilng-the-pinch, are good. But wouldn't a preponderance of Value Own-brand products in the trolleys be an indicator of an open recession, not a stealth recession (which would be marked by higher-priced products in the trolleys, and credit cards at the tills)?