PDA

View Full Version : Train eviction video: 'Big Man' is charged



BrilloPad
21st December 2011, 15:25
BBC News - Train eviction video: 'Big Man' is charged (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16288101)

And quite right too - he should never have got involved. The ticket inspector handled it very badly.

Support Monkey
21st December 2011, 15:28
They should have given hiim a medal more like, if one toe wrag can get away with it we can all try it

Turn the other cheek when a crime is being comitted

Mind you he was lucky the yoof didn't pull a blade and stick him

Arturo Bassick
21st December 2011, 15:29
BBC News - Train eviction video: 'Big Man' is charged (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16288101)

And quite right too - he should never have got involved. The ticket inspector handled it very badly.Bleeding heart liberals like you are the cause of the malaise in the UK today. If scrotes like the kid expected to be taken care of by people like the big man then they would be a lot less likely to take the piss in the first place.
Why should 100 people be held up by a dickhead who refuses to pay or get off.

I hope it goes to jury, I reckon he will be found not guilty.

d000hg
21st December 2011, 15:35
Bleeding heart liberals like you are the cause of the malaise in the UK today.OTOH, vigilante justice is hardly the solution. Allowing the public to act violently tells the youth that violence is fine after all.

A middle ground might be that the conductor should have kicked him off.

Arturo Bassick
21st December 2011, 15:39
OTOH, vigilante justice is hardly the solution. Allowing the public to act violently tells the youth that violence is fine after all.

A middle ground might be that the conductor should have kicked him off.I would agree if the big man had been overly aggressive, but it looked like reasonable force to me. The public should be allowed a certain amount of leeway in these circumstances.

Support Monkey
21st December 2011, 15:40
OTOH, vigilante justice is hardly the solution. Allowing the public to act violently tells the youth that violence is fine after all.

A middle ground might be that the conductor should have kicked him off.

It was hardly vigilante, he just picked him up and moved him to the door if he was a vigilante he would have thrown him from the train and not waited for it to arrive at the station Charles Bronson stylee

Paddy
21st December 2011, 15:44
Bleeding heart liberals like you are the cause of the malaise in the UK today. If scrotes like the kid expected to be taken care of by people like the big man then they would be a lot less likely to take the piss in the first place.
Why should 100 people be held up by a dickhead who refuses to pay or get off.

I hope it goes to jury, I reckon he will be found not guilty.

A man in a pinstripe suit would not have been treated the same way by the ticket collector. The ticket collector should not have helt the train up and instead radioed to the Transport police to take over.

wobbegong
21st December 2011, 15:47
OTOH, vigilante justice is hardly the solution. Allowing the public to act violently tells the youth that violence is fine after all.

A middle ground might be that the conductor should have kicked him off.

Utter tosh, it tells them that they are likely to get their arses kicked if they get lippy.

BoredBloke
21st December 2011, 15:52
I've not seen all the footage - in reports I've read it said that the kid was abusive to the conductor and in others he was not. If he was abusive then fair play to the guy for kickimg him off. If not, and he had made a genuine mistake in buying 2 singles instead of a return, then probably not. Had it been me at that age I would probably just taken the hit on the fine and grumbled about it, rather than mouthing off to the inspector.

2 sides to every story. If he was a gobshite then fair enough.

bless 'em all
21st December 2011, 15:53
A man in a pinstripe suit would not have been treated the same way by the ticket collector. The ticket collector should not have helt the train up and instead radioed to the Transport police to take over.

Regardless of what a person is wearing telling the conductor to f-off and acting like an obnoxious little turd is hardly going to get Joe-public on your side.

Basil Fawlty
21st December 2011, 15:54
A man in a pinstripe suit would not have been treated the same way by the ticket collector. The ticket collector should not have helt the train up and instead radioed to the Transport police to take over.

If he'd started effing and jeffing at the conductor he'd have been treated in exactly the same way...

Support Monkey
21st December 2011, 16:00
he was cocky yoof who deserved everything he got, if that had been one of my kids i would have told him it served him right for being a cock,

At the end of the day he was breaking the law and was removed from the train using reasonable force with a flea in his ear and maybe lesson learned rather than "I got away with it" I got slapped wrist from the judge"

Paddy
21st December 2011, 16:06
If he'd started effing and jeffing at the conductor he'd have been treated in exactly the same way...

In that respect, I agree

SneakySimon
21st December 2011, 16:09
I saw somewhere that the CCTV in the train has evidence that the little scrote earlier tried to trip up the conductor.

It says everything about this crap country that the only two people that action is being taken against so far is the conductor for allowing the "Big Man" to remove the scrote and for the "Big Man" for assult. The scrote who caused the trouble etc? Nothing, they are still deciding.

Pathetic.

Freamon
21st December 2011, 16:18
Video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKKADFIEX84

Freamon
21st December 2011, 16:19
Obviously the mistake he's made is failing to declare beforehand that he was performing a citizens arrest.

TimberWolf
21st December 2011, 16:28
Seems to me that the conductor was doing the kid a favour if he had no good reason for not having a ticket. Being told to leave if you get caught fare dodging isn't much of a deterrent.

NickFitz
21st December 2011, 16:31
I wonder how many would be so full of praise if it was the "respectable" chap who hadn't had a ticket and the chavvy youth who'd chucked him off the train?

Basil Fawlty
21st December 2011, 16:41
I wonder how many would be so full of praise if it was the "respectable" chap who hadn't had a ticket and the chavvy youth who'd chucked him off the train?

If the "respectable" chap had started abusing the conductor and shouting about not giving and F about the other passengers, then I'd fully agree with him being turfed off by King Chav the third !

Seems to be people are confusing the fact there is outrage at someone being so abusive to the conductor and other passengers, with some sort of anti-chav campaign.

The_Equalizer
21st December 2011, 16:47
Once you start acting like a shite I think you're fair game. RIP deference.

d000hg
21st December 2011, 17:01
I would agree if the big man had been overly aggressive, but it looked like reasonable force to me. The public should be allowed a certain amount of leeway in these circumstances.It's a very thin line though - if the guy takes a opportunistic punch or throws rather than pushes the kid out of the train.


Utter tosh, it tells them that they are likely to get their arses kicked if they get lippy.It tells them they might get accounted for their actions yes. It also teaches them that violence against people who are pissing you off is OK... the guy didn't throw the kid off for breaking the rules, but because he was annoyed with him.


It says everything about this crap country that the only two people that action is being taken against so far is the conductor for allowing the "Big Man" to remove the scrote and for the "Big Man" for assult. The scrote who caused the trouble etc? Nothing, they are still deciding.

Pathetic.The kid was travelling without a valid ticket. The man physically threw a minor off a train... justification take out of the picture they are different things.


Once you start acting like a tulipe I think you're fair game. RIP deference.That says a lot of society - we'll act civilised as long as you do. The real sign of civilisation is acting civilised when the other guy doesn't...
Do to others as you would have them do to you. If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that.

NickFitz
21st December 2011, 17:04
The real sign of civilisation is acting civilised when the other guy doesn't...

I think that's a bit of a lost cause in this particular forum :laugh

MrRobin
21st December 2011, 17:16
It's a shame the stalemate was not broken with an act of kindness rather than an act of force.

I would have got up and paid his fare.

mudskipper
21st December 2011, 17:30
If the "respectable" chap had started abusing the conductor and shouting about not giving and F about the other passengers, then I'd fully agree with him being turfed off by King Chav the third !

Seems to be people are confusing the fact there is outrage at someone being so abusive to the conductor and other passengers, with some sort of anti-chav campaign.

I suspect the conductor would have been more likely to believe "Mr respectable". If the conductor had believed "scrote" then scrote would have been unlikely to get abusive. Who knows? If a conductor got arsey with you, would you get arsey back?

mudskipper
21st December 2011, 17:33
It's a shame the stalemate was not broken with an act of kindness rather than an act of force.

I would have got up and paid his fare.

Would you really? I think if I believed his excuse I would, but if, like the conductor, I thought he was taking the piss, I wouldn't.

I nearly bought a girl a £36 train ticket once - till she enhanced her sob story to include a disabled mother at which point I decided I was being taken for a mug.

SueEllen
21st December 2011, 17:47
The kid was travelling without a valid ticket. The man physically threw a minor off a train... justification take out of the picture they are different things.


Well unlike the teenagers in Tilbury who stabbed a ticket inspector in the back for questioning them about not having valid tickets, least this little scrote knows that if he does try it again someone will likely intervene in a way he doesn't like.

I know personally two middle age women who have intervened when teenage boys have been rude in that manner. One was punched a few times by the boy before he was held down by other people. The boy was charged, convicted and fined.

MrRobin
21st December 2011, 17:56
Would you really? I think if I believed his excuse I would, but if, like the conductor, I thought he was taking the piss, I wouldn't.

I nearly bought a girl a £36 train ticket once - till she enhanced her sob story to include a disabled mother at which point I decided I was being taken for a mug.

I like to think I would have had the frame of mind to have considered it. I know the kid was rude and was being a twat but in the interest of just getting on with the journey then this is a much more pleasant option. If anything rubbed off on the kid then it'd be a bonus.

Basil Fawlty
21st December 2011, 18:25
I suspect the conductor would have been more likely to believe "Mr respectable". If the conductor had believed "scrote" then scrote would have been unlikely to get abusive. Who knows? If a conductor got arsey with you, would you get arsey back?

No :happy

AtW
21st December 2011, 18:25
This would have never come to it if convealed firearms bearing was legal.

HTH

TestMangler
21st December 2011, 18:28
I like to think I would have had the frame of mind to have considered it. I know the kid was rude and was being a twat but in the interest of just getting on with the journey then this is a much more pleasant option. If anything rubbed off on the kid then it'd be a bonus.

And that is one way to guarantee that the wee shite will think he can do it again and again and some muppet will pay for him to do so.

Freamon
21st December 2011, 18:30
I like to think I would have had the frame of mind to have considered it. I know the kid was rude and was being a twat but in the interest of just getting on with the journey then this is a much more pleasant option. If anything rubbed off on the kid then it'd be a bonus.

It seemed from the video that he only had a single ticket in the other direction. Was he claiming that he had bought a return but only had the outbound part of the ticket to show the ticket inspector? If so, it would be pretty easy to tell if he was lying as a single ticket purchased on its own has SGL printed on it, whereas a return has OUT on the outbound ticket and RTN on the return part.

NickFitz
21st December 2011, 18:40
It seemed from the video that he only had a single ticket in the other direction. Was he claiming that he had bought a return but only had the outbound part of the ticket to show the ticket inspector? If so, it would be pretty easy to tell if he was lying as a single ticket purchased on its own has SGL printed on it, whereas a return has OUT on the outbound ticket and RTN on the return part.

He'd been told that it was cheaper to buy a single outbound and a separate single for the return journey than getting the cheapest return. He claims the ticket office messed up and gave him two tickets for the outbound journey.

MrRobin
21st December 2011, 18:41
It seemed from the video that he only had a single ticket in the other direction. Was he claiming that he had bought a return but only had the outbound part of the ticket to show the ticket inspector? If so, it would be pretty easy to tell if he was lying as a single ticket purchased on its own has SGL printed on it, whereas a return has OUT on the outbound ticket and RTN on the return part.

I'm not trying to defend the scrote... he probably was lying! All I am saying is that there was a deadlock and there was more than one option to resolve it.

MarillionFan
21st December 2011, 18:51
He'd been told that it was cheaper to buy a single outbound and a separate single for the return journey than getting the cheapest return. He claims the ticket office messed up and gave him two tickets for the outbound journey.

A dog ate mine. :eyes

Bunk
21st December 2011, 18:56
The kid was travelling without a valid ticket. The man physically threw a minor off a train...

He was 19, so he wasn't a kid or a minor.

Churchill
21st December 2011, 19:47
Why can't we all just get along?

SueEllen
21st December 2011, 20:00
He'd been told that it was cheaper to buy a single outbound and a separate single for the return journey than getting the cheapest return. He claims the ticket office messed up and gave him two tickets for the outbound journey.

Then if he wasn't lying he would have 2 outbound tickets and any mates he was with would also have valid tickets.

Anyway the onus is on you to check your tickets before you travel and make sure you get on the right trains.

minestrone
21st December 2011, 20:13
You have to consider this is a Scotrail train, populated by drunkards (http://news.stv.tv/scotland/tayside/289383-drunk-conductor-left-stranded-on-platform-after-train-leaves-without-him/).

I would have just flung the guard off.

Spacecadet
22nd December 2011, 09:41
This would have never come to it if convealed firearms bearing was legal.

HTH

Its interesting to see what google returns when searching for convealed

Paddy
22nd December 2011, 09:45
Then if he wasn't lying he would have 2 outbound tickets and any mates he was with would also have valid tickets.

Anyway the onus is on you to check your tickets before you travel and make sure you get on the right trains.

No if he put the ticket into an automatic barrier on arrival.

v8gaz
22nd December 2011, 10:09
Anyway, time to show your support for the big man...

Save the Big Man (http://www.cafepress.com/savethebigman)

:happy

MarillionFan
22nd December 2011, 10:11
I think you should just be allowed to give people you don't agree with a good right hander. That would sort out the world.

doodab
22nd December 2011, 11:04
If that is how they handle fare dodgers then it's hardly surprising people take the piss as they must be a laughing stock. The ticket inspector is completely ineffective, he's done nothing of consequence and relied on a member of the public to do his job for him.

One might consider the kid a "chav" trying it on, on the other hand we might have a potentially vulnerable young person who hasn't actually done anything wrong and has now been left alone on a train platform at night after being manhandled by a complete stranger. I wouldn't be at all surprised, given how opaque the ticket pricing system can be and the number of times I've been given something different than I asked for "because it's cheaper" , if it did turn out that the kid had paid and been given the wrong tickets.

From the metro, a bit of the other side of the story:


‘I had two singles but they were both for Polmont to Edinburgh. I thought I’d be able to explain what happened to the conductor but he just said “Off!”’


The teenager's father Lennie Main, added: ‘This big guy has basically thrown him on to the platform. Sam’s landed on his face, and has a big graze.
‘He’s tried to get back in the carriage to get his bag.
‘He’s diabetic and all his things were in that bag – his medication, his university notes, his money, his mobile phone and his iPod. This man had no right to do what he did. If I was him, I’d expect to be charged.’

BlasterBates
22nd December 2011, 11:16
Lets hear the other side of the story:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUdOvjX2CD8&feature=related

Looks like the guy did pay for his ticket, but the ticket office screwed up.

BrilloPad
22nd December 2011, 11:20
It is up to the conductor to handle it. The kid's point is that he was sold 2 outward tickets - I saw a letter to the DT suggesting this is a frequent occurence.

BlasterBates
22nd December 2011, 11:27
It´s also quite disgraceful that the conductor helped in the assault, hopefully he´ll get disciplined as well. I have also been on the wrong end of a conductor having bought a valid ticket and it is incredibly difficult to hold your temper, especially after a long day and you´re tired. The date was printed really badly on the ticket, faded. The guy was just incredibly rude, and it is very difficult to justify yourself. In the end he conceded when another passenger suggested the machines were notoriously crap, but he didn´t apologise, he just muttered I should see a psychiatrist to deal with my temper.

doodab
22nd December 2011, 11:28
Looks like a classic case of rail company customer service delivered by petty jobsworths under the presumption that passengers are basically criminals.

prozak
22nd December 2011, 12:03
Wow.

I can't believe any of you support the ticket inspector or "the big man" in this.

The ticket inspector looked like he decided instantly the kid was lying and gave him no chance to explain and no quarter.

Then the big idiot steps in.

I hope the inspector is fired and the idiot gets a custodial sentence (of course he wont)

Durbs
22nd December 2011, 12:09
Have to say i'm generally all for these cheeky scrotes that seem to be all over the place these days getting a slap to keep them in line.

BUT, in this instance, dunno, have watched the vid a few times and dont see the lad being overly aggresive (the conductor seems more so) and looking at his face afterwards seems he was lobbed face first onto the platform when he tries to explain his bag is still on his seat and he needs to get it.

So lamping chavs is ok in 99% of cases but not convinced it was warranted here.

conned tractor
22nd December 2011, 12:16
Wow.

I can't believe any of you support the ticket inspector or "the big man" in this.

The ticket inspector looked like he decided instantly the kid was lying and gave him no chance to explain and no quarter.

Then the big idiot steps in.

I hope the inspector is fired and the idiot gets a custodial sentence (of course he wont)

Agree.

I have had great arguments with rail staff over legitamately bought tickets, which dependant upon which inspector you got was either valid or invalid. I could even prove that I could buy the same ticket online via the ticket database they all use there and then. One even told me to get my money back for all the duplicate tickets bought previously immediately at the destination station. Others have forced me to buy another ticket there and then or be removed from the train.

It's almost as if the rail companies encourage ambiguity in their ticket sales. :rolleyes:

And as for the dogooder - he should be bought before a court and appropraite sentence given, who TF is he to take this action on a young lad.

Joeman
22nd December 2011, 12:19
As a regular commuter into London, i practice a "no seat, no ticket" rule. If i dont get a seat i politely refuse to show my ticket. Inspectors dont even bother to challenge me anymore...

In this case if the kid had taken the time to explain the situation clearly, and had the reciept etc to back up his argument, then the inspector would have likley left it alone and it wouldnt have come to this.

Freamon
22nd December 2011, 12:51
There are some regional railway stations where there are no ticket machines at the unstaffed stations. The only time I've ever had to travel from one, there was a conductor selling tickets on the train. He sold tickets to a couple of people, then didn't bother with the rest of the carriage and wandered off. He came back a few more times during the journey to sell a few tickets to some of the people who got on, but at least 50% of the people who I saw on that train were never approached.

hugebrain
22nd December 2011, 14:25
I hope they put the thug in prison and the ticket inspector too for deliberately getting the other passengers angry with the kid.

Like all decent people I hate over-paid scum train workers - especially when they charge me extra because THEY decide to close the ticket office, or make me travel in the guards van because I have a bicycle when the doors on that carriage only open onto the track and not the platform...

Joeman
22nd December 2011, 14:36
I hope they put the thug in prison and the ticket inspector too for deliberately getting the other passengers angry with the kid.

Like all decent people I hate over-paid scum train workers - especially when they charge me extra because THEY decide to close the ticket office, or make me travel in the guards van because I have a bicycle when the doors on that carriage only open onto the track and not the platform...

I often tavel into London Cannon street with no ticket and buy one on arrival. Ive never been charged a fine or had to pay extra... what are you saying to these people to wind them up???

hugebrain
22nd December 2011, 17:32
I often travel into London Cannon street with no ticket and buy one on arrival. I've never been charged a fine or had to pay extra... what are you saying to these people to wind them up???

They are very polite, they say things like I'm afraid your bike will have to go in the guards' room (not mentioning that one side of it is locked, the side where I want to get out) or they say I'm sorry Sir, you can't use your railcard when you buy tickets on the train (so I have to pay extra to the overpaid thieving scum).

Joeman
22nd December 2011, 17:46
I'm sorry Sir, you can't use your railcard when you buy tickets on the train (so I have to pay extra to the overpaid thieving scum).

They've tried that on me, and i just told them i would buy my ticket from the "payments due" office at Cannon Street Station like i did last time my travel card expired and they were fine with that. Then the "payments due" office wont let you buy a travel card (only daily tickets) so you ask them to let you through the gate to get to the main ticket office. Great experiment in Social Engineering ;)

d000hg
22nd December 2011, 18:43
I think you should just be allowed to give people you don't agree with a good right hander. That would sort out the world.Do you often offer strangers a "right hander"?

Bunk
22nd December 2011, 19:03
Ah, he's from Polmont. Case closed :eyes

VectraMan
22nd December 2011, 20:13
I never need a ticket on the return trip from Oxford. And when I take the slow train home, there's usually a number of people that get on in the villages that I'm sure use the train as a free service in and out of town. In reality, it'd cost more to pay ticket inspectors than they lose by letting people ride for free. I'm sure they wouldn't publicly admit it, but I'd bet that's the unofficial official policy.