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scooterscot
9th January 2012, 15:28
"Hi hitler, your our kind of people"

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01890/camSal_1890698c.jpg

More like the uncertainty of referendum is damaging DC's career rather than the economy. It seems to me every time DC opens his mouth he helps AS take another step closer to his goal.

Downing St: Scottish referendum uncertainty is hurting economy - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/9002320/Downing-St-Scottish-referendum-uncertainty-is-hurting-economy.html)


A referendum should be held on Scottish independence “sooner rather than later” to avoid damaging the economy, Downing Street said today.

The Prime Minister’s official spokesman said that the uncertainty caused by the unsure future of the union between England and Scotland “can have a detrimental impact on the economy”.

The spokesman said: “One thing business never likes is uncertainty, whether that is legal uncertainty, political uncertainty or economic uncertainty.

“The feedback he [the PM] has had and the Chancellor has had suggests that this uncertainty around Scotland’s place in the union is having an effect.

“The Chancellor was talking to some of the largest companies in the world and this is what they were saying to him.”

The spokesman added that the “uncertainty can have a detrimental impact on the economy, that is why we need to get on with this sooner rather than later”.

Earlier, David Cameron was accused of "seeking to interfere" with the democratic rights of the Scottish people by trying to impose conditions on a referendum on independence.

Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland's Deputy First Minister, said the Scottish people had "overwhelmingly" voted the SNP into power in Holyrood last year, returning the nationalist party with a majority.

And she said there was "clarity" north of the border about the SNP commitment to hold the referendum in the second half of the Parliament.

But she accused Mr Cameron of trying to influence the format and timing of any vote.

Reports suggest the Government in Westminster is considering offering the Scottish Parliament the chance to hold a legally binding referendum but only on the basis of a simple yes or no question and if it is held within a certain time frame, thought to be 18 months.

On the Andrew Marr Show yesterday, the Prime Minister said he would publish legal advice in the coming days which would offer a "fair, legal and decisive" solution.

But Ms Sturgeon told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "This is a blatant attempt to interfere in the decision that is really one for the Scottish Government in terms of the timing of the referendum and for the Scottish people in terms of the outcome.

"We were elected on the basis of our commitment to have a referendum in the second half of this parliamentary term.

"This is about Westminster seeking to interfere.

"We said very clearly in the election that our immediate priority if elected would be to seek to strengthen the Scotland Bill, currently going through the Westminster Parliament, to give the Scottish Parliament important economic job-creating powers, a referendum on independence in the second half of this parliamentary term."

Mr Cameron has said it would give "clarity" to the people of Scotland as he renewed his determination to see a vote held "sooner rather than later".


And he accused Alex Salmond, the First Minister, of seeking to delay a vote because he knew Scottish voters did not "at heart" want a full separation.

Mr Salmond wants the poll in the second half of his current term – which ends in 2016.

Mr Cameron told the Andrew Marr Show that the uncertainty over when a referendum would be held and what the question would be was damaging the Scottish economy.

"We owe the Scottish people something that is fair, legal and decisive so in the coming days we will be setting out clearly what the legal situation is," he said.

"Then we need a proper debate where people can put forward their views.

"But my view, very strongly, is that the Scottish people deserve some clarity, some decisiveness and they deserve it to be legal and binding."

He went on: "The uncertainty about this issue is damaging to Scotland and Scotland's economy.

"And it is unfair on the Scottish people themselves, who don't really know when this question is going to be asked, what the question is going to be, who's responsible for asking it."

The Prime Minister said the United Kingdom was "one of the most successful partnerships in the history of the world" and should be defended.

"It would be desperately sad if Scotland chose to leave the United Kingdom and I will do everything I can to encourage Scotland to stay in the United Kingdom because I think that is the best for all our economies, Scotland included, and all our societies."

"Let's not drift apart. I think he (Alex Salmond) knows the Scottish people at heart do not want a full separation and so he is trying to create a situation where that bubbles up and happens whereas I think we need some decisiveness so we can clear up this issue."

"I don't think we should just let this go on year after year. I think that's damaging for everyone concerned, so let's clear up the legal situation and then have a debate about how we bring this to a conclusion. My view is that sooner rather than later would be better."

MrRobin
9th January 2012, 15:30
"So the question was 'How many chins has Alex got?'... I say 5!"

Old Greg
9th January 2012, 15:33
Gretna is historically a part of England.

TestMangler
9th January 2012, 15:34
Five Times !! In one night !!

DimPrawn
9th January 2012, 15:35
"bye bye Scotland. Take your benefits bills, Neds and your empty oil + gas wells with you".

:laugh

KimberleyChris
9th January 2012, 15:44
"Don't worry...we'll give five scots worK permits every year until Scotland gets into the EU"

wobbegong
9th January 2012, 16:27
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01890/camSal_1890698c.jpg

Yes, that's right madam, not ten, just five, yes FIVE pounds, for this lifesize Shrek doll.

DodgyAgent
9th January 2012, 16:30
If it means they can shed their inferiority complex then they should go. I am all for devolving power and reducing size, however I bet the first thing they do is having fought so hard for independence that they give away their sovereignty to the EU by joining the Euro :)

scooterscot
9th January 2012, 16:33
The thing I don't get, is, well the torry graph, the beeb, all their stories are written as an us versus them argument. English versus the Scots, with all the associated ignorance.

As far as I can tell from my peers the purpose has never been anything more than the residents of Scotland (English, African, Asian, Swindoners) having a voice that separates them from the politics of Westminster.

They have my full support in this matter regardless of where they come from.

AtW
9th January 2012, 16:44
"He asked me for independence and I told him to talk to the hand"

russell
9th January 2012, 16:46
Here's how it is going to play out, Scotland will become independent, lower Corp Tax, attract loads of businesses who enjoy the golf and whiskey as well and will take over London as the financial capital of the world.

AtW
9th January 2012, 16:49
lower Corp Tax

WHS

All City banks will re-register to be incorporated in Scotland.

DodgyAgent
9th January 2012, 16:51
WHS

All City banks will re-register to be incorporated in Scotland.

That centre of banking excellence :rollin::rollin:

Mich the Tester
9th January 2012, 16:57
That centre of banking excellence :rollin::rollin:

Your money is safe with us.

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Feb/Week1/15215985.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_nVrEHoKdlkA/Saf_s-NFt8I/AAAAAAAAA2E/CuESJgDBXiw/s320/Fred+Goodwin.jpg

http://www.elpais.com/recorte/20081124elpepieco_2/LCO340/Ies/Gordon_Brown.jpg

russell
9th January 2012, 17:00
Your money is safe with us.

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Feb/Week1/15215985.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_nVrEHoKdlkA/Saf_s-NFt8I/AAAAAAAAA2E/CuESJgDBXiw/s320/Fred+Goodwin.jpg

http://www.elpais.com/recorte/20081124elpepieco_2/LCO340/Ies/Gordon_Brown.jpg

Don't lose your Bearings

Incognito
9th January 2012, 18:09
If it means they can shed their inferiority complex then they should go. I am all for devolving power and reducing size, however I bet the first thing they do is having fought so hard for independence that they give away their sovereignty to the EU by joining the Euro :)

There is no inferiority complex. The last 'war' between the English and Scots resulted in a stalemate and the last pitched battle when an English King and Scottish King were both on the field of battle resulted in yon English King high tailing it back to London as fast as his horse could carry him leaving almost 2/3rds of his army lying dead on the field.

Incognito
9th January 2012, 18:12
That centre of banking excellence :rollin::rollin:

Edinburgh is Europe's fourth largest financial centre by equity assets.

AtW
9th January 2012, 18:13
Edinburgh is Europe's fourth largest financial centre by equity assets.

Only thanks to English bailout. :wink

Cliphead
9th January 2012, 18:17
Only thanks to British bailout. :wink

We're all paying :eyes

Paddy
9th January 2012, 18:28
"bye bye Scotland. Take your benefits bills, Neds and your empty oil + gas wells with you".

:laugh

There is a misconception that Scottish oil would be everything above the longitude of the boarder. Most international divisions in the sea are a countenance of the boarder. Take a look and the bottom left, if that is continued half the oil fields go to England.

http://www.acorn-ps.com/web/image/content/map/nns_map.jpg

shaunbhoy
9th January 2012, 18:30
Take a look and the bottom left, if that is continued half the oil fields go to England.



Yes, but that is the half that are now almost empty.

HTH

KimberleyChris
9th January 2012, 18:34
Also, a strange assumption that the remaining UK will be obliged to buy 'Scottish Oil'.

If the price is right, we will, otherwise we'll just buy it somewhere else.

Incognito
9th January 2012, 21:39
There is a misconception that Scottish oil would be everything above the longitude of the boarder. Most international divisions in the sea are a countenance of the boarder. Take a look and the bottom left, if that is continued half the oil fields go to England.

http://www.acorn-ps.com/web/image/content/map/nns_map.jpg

I can't see what your image is, but I'm assuming it's referring to the maritime 'boundary' drawn up by the Scottish Adjacent Waters Boundary Order 1999.

http://www.oilofscotland.org/Scotland_marine-border.jpg

There was a study (http://scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/133434/0061924.pdf) done still taking this into account and it shows that Scottish waters will still deliver > 60% of North Sea Gas and > 90% of North Sea Oil.

And we really don't need the English to buy our Oil.


Papers reveal oil fears over SNP

Oil revenues would have made Scotland a powerful player in Europe

A secret Whitehall dossier written 30 years ago has revealed that Labour ministers were concerned about the case for Scottish independence.
The information was kept confidential at the time to keep Nationalism at bay.

The paper was obtained by the Scottish National Party under freedom of information legislation.

Written by a leading government economist in 1974, it sets out how oil would have given Scotland one of the strongest currencies in Europe.

The report by Professor Gavin McCrone also stated that Scotland would have had "embarrassingly" large tax surpluses.

But Dr McCrone's projections for independence were kept secret because of Labour's fears about a surge in SNP popularity.

The report shows officials advising ministers about how to take "the wind out of the SNP sails".

Kenny MacAskill, of the Scottish National Party, said the report was proof of 30 years of official lies, cover-ups and betrayal.

He added that it showed how much Scotland would have benefited from independence and oil.

He said that in the 30 years since the report, Scotland had suffered low economic growth and manufacturing decline while at the same time oil wealth had "transformed" Canadian provinces and Arabian shiekdoms.

"Some have chosen when they've discovered oil to make the desert bloom and the tragedy was that in 30 years in some areas of Scotland, the UK Government has created an industrial desert," he said.


Mr MacAskill insisted that, with prices rising rapidly, oil was now "on the agenda" and he claimed an independent Scotland "would never be richer".

He added: "I would first of all like to have an apology from the UK Government for lying to us.

"We're not talking about something that's negligible.

"This is a fundamental lie that the people of Scotland have been spun for 30 years - that we were too wee, we couldn't do it, that the oil was going to run out - when they knew for 30 years that Scotland was sitting on a bountiful presence that would have transformed our economy for the better."

However Scottish Secretary Alistair Darling dismissed the document.

He said: "This is typical of the Nationalists, looking back to the past. This document is 30 years old.

"The fact is that all recent figures show an independent Scotland would have a fiscal deficit even if oil revenues are taken into account. That would mean cuts in public services."

BBC NEWS | Scotland | Papers reveal oil fears over SNP (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4238744.stm)

Here (http://www.oilofscotland.org/mccronereport.pdf) is the report.

Incognito
9th January 2012, 22:16
More like the uncertainty of referendum is damaging DC's career rather than the economy. It seems to me every time DC opens his mouth he helps AS take another step closer to his goal.


It's amazing how much this actually plays into the hands of el Presidente.


Alex Salmond has been given the green light by David Cameron to pursue a referendum on Scottish independence after the first minister swept back into power with a commanding majority in the Scottish parliament.

The prime minister spoke to Salmond hours after the Scottish National party won a dramatic victory in the Holyrood elections, and guaranteed that the UK government would not put any legal or political obstacles in the way of an independence referendum.

Ministers in London will also speed up the introduction of new borrowing powers for Holyrood, which will be worth at least £2bn, and allow communities in Scotland to earn more money from charges on offshore green energy projects currently paid to the Crown Estates.

Cameron's concessions finally clear away any prospect of the UK government challenging the legality of a referendum: senior figures in the last Labour government believed a referendum was barred under the Scotland Act because changes to the British constitution are the preserve of Westminster.

Michael Moore, the Scottish secretary, said: "As a government, at a UK level, we won't put obstacles in their path." He added: "It entirely depends on how this is structured. The prime minister was entirely clear with the first minister yesterday: we will not stand in the way of this happening."

Moore chose his words carefully, admitting that, as a Liberal Democrat MP, he would join with Cameron in campaigning vigorously against independence.

Scottish independence: Cameron gives green light to referendum | Politics | The Observer (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/may/08/cameron-green-light-scottish-referendum)

Changed his tune pretty quick hasn't he. Must be seeing the writing on the wall. Trouble is he's only serving to highlight it to the rest of us now.

DodgyAgent
9th January 2012, 22:34
It's amazing how much this actually plays into the hands of el Presidente.



Changed his tune pretty quick hasn't he. Must be seeing the writing on the wall. Trouble is he's only serving to highlight it to the rest of us now.

If Scotland gains independence most of the English will be very happy. The Conservative party especially so despite what Cameron "says"

Incognito
9th January 2012, 23:17
If Scotland gains independence most of the English will be very happy. The Conservative party especially so despite what Cameron "says"

Yeah, but with the rate with which your economy will collapse without us Jocks propping it up, you'll be a Socialist council house sink estate of a nation within a decade.

Us Tartan Tories will have to make sure our overflowing coffers pays to rebuild that wall and electrify it this time as well to keep you chavs out of our country and off of our roads paved with gold.

DimPrawn
9th January 2012, 23:23
I'd love to see Scotland try to survive without all the English tax money.

It'll be like a very cold Somalia within months, only not as friendly.

:laugh

Alf W
9th January 2012, 23:25
Let us have the referendum ASAP. The English will vote for Scottish independence and the Scottish will vote against it. Then we can put all the noise to bed and get on with things.

Freedom for Cornwall .. Yawn!

Incognito
9th January 2012, 23:26
I'd love to see Scotland try to survive without all the English tax money.

It'll be like a very cold Somalia within months, only not as friendly.

:laugh

I'll let you wash my car.

AlfredJPruffock
9th January 2012, 23:27
If Scotland gains independence most of the English will be very happy. The Conservative party especially so despite what Cameron "says"

Indeed England would be - Forever Blue - well you know what I mean ?

And why not if they are so inclined ?

DimPrawn
9th January 2012, 23:27
I hope they get it.

They can then form the PISH countries.

Portugal, Ireland, Scotland and Hungary. All bankrupt.

:laugh

Incognito
9th January 2012, 23:34
I hope they get it.

They can then form the PISH countries.

Portugal, Ireland, Scotland and Hungary. All bankrupt.

:laugh


You guys could get together with Andorra, Romania and Spain.

That way you'd be the tail end of the A...R....S....E

:laugh

DodgyAgent
9th January 2012, 23:45
Yeah, but with the rate with which your economy will collapse without us Jocks propping it up, you'll be a Socialist council house sink estate of a nation within a decade.

Us Tartan Tories will have to make sure our overflowing coffers pays to rebuild that wall and electrify it this time as well to keep you chavs out of our country and off of our roads paved with gold.

It may just happen that Scottish Toryism will emerge with its own identity and not associated with English Toryism. There are many Scots who firmly believe in the principles of conservatism who will glad that their ideals will no longer be linked to the English Tory party.

AtW
9th January 2012, 23:48
It may just happen that the Scottish Toryism will emerge with it's own identity and not associated with the English Toryism. There are many Scots who firmly believe in the principles of conservatism who will be glad that their ideals will no longer be linked to the English Tory party.

I hope they can spell and have better grammar...

Incognito
9th January 2012, 23:53
It may just happen that Scottish Toryism will emerge with its own identity and not associated with English Toryism. There are many Scots who firmly believe in the principles of conservatism who will glad that their ideals will no longer be linked to the English Tory party.

I'm a Tory who happens to vote for the SNP.

DodgyAgent
10th January 2012, 07:06
I'm a Tory who happens to vote for the SNP.

Is that because the Tories have no chance and SNP are preferable to Labour, or do you genuinely believe in devolution for Scotland?

Incognito
10th January 2012, 12:27
Is that because the Tories have no chance and SNP are preferable to Labour, or do you genuinely believe in devolution for Scotland?

Nope, because I'm a Nationalist with right minded political views. The Scottish Tories are a right minded Unionist party.

DodgyAgent
10th January 2012, 12:30
Nope, because I'm a Nationalist with right minded political views. The Scottish Tories are a right minded Unionist party.
I thought SNP were a bunch of lefties

Incognito
10th January 2012, 12:40
I thought SNP were a bunch of lefties

They are, however they are my type of lefties. Coming from Scotland, they're far better than the Socialist scumbags in Scots Labour as well. The party that gave you Galloway, Devine, Brown, Reid et al.

DodgyAgent
10th January 2012, 12:42
They are, however they are my type of lefties. Coming from Scotland, they're far better than the Socialist scumbags in Scots Labour as well. The party that gave you Galloway, Devine, Brown, Reid et al.

Do you think that if you gain independence you could in future refrain from dumping idiots like these on English soil?

wobbegong
10th January 2012, 13:10
They are, however they are my type of lefties. Coming from Scotland, they're far better than the Socialist scumbags in Scots Labour as well. The party that gave you Galloway, Devine, Brown, Reid et al.

Are you sure she's Scottish?

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTaQxLlRfeRo_ITpeueuzPaYvMMxfaPC S4VuMlmJI81OpleeOWI

scooterscot
10th January 2012, 15:10
It's amazing how much this actually plays into the hands of el Presidente.



Changed his tune pretty quick hasn't he. Must be seeing the writing on the wall. Trouble is he's only serving to highlight it to the rest of us now.

DC give King swerve a run for his money but then he keeps printing it so he'll never catch up. I'm sure DC does not want to be labeled the UK PM who helped divide the union. He's doing a grand job at the minute.

Year on year me thinks some form of division is growing in likelihood, to what end is the part AS needs to clear up until then he's got a mountain to climb.

KimberleyChris
10th January 2012, 21:25
I think that the English are pretty ambivalent over whether the Scots go or stay..

We've just got sick of the constant bloody moaning noise.

Either stay then shut up, or go then shut up.