These Greek talks with their creditors

[sasguru]

Apparently they're trying to pay less than the 50% haircut agreed (a default in any other than name).
And if they don't come to an agreement they won't get a loan required to pay 18 billion Euros in bond dues in March 20th.

This raises the obvious questions:

1) 18 billion is chump change in country finance terms, and Greece doesn't have it?
2) Obviously they are bust, they can't pay the creditors or redeem their bonds, so will they just keep getting bailed out, every time a payment comes due?
3) Their economy is contracting drastically every year, how is this situation going to get better?

Everyone seems to have their head buried in the sand, hoping the problem will go away, but it won't.

[Doggy Styles]

Surely not? It should all be blowing over by now.

Don't know why I'm laughing though. That crock of tulipe the common currency is affecting everyone outside it as well. Whose idea was it?

[sasguru]

Don't know why I'm laughing though. That crock of tulipe the common currency is affecting everyone outside it as well.

Indeed. One almost hopes that they patch it up and carry on. But we all know that's only storing up problems for an even bigger crisis down the road.

[BrilloPad]

1) 18 billion is chump change in country finance terms, and Greece doesn't have it?
2) Obviously they are bust, they can't pay the creditors or redeem their bonds, so will they just keep getting bailed out, every time a payment comes due?
3) Their economy is contracting drastically every year, how is this situation going to get better?

1. can't they just print it?
2. Germany seems to think the greeks will mend their ways, pay their taxes and adopt German working ethics and all will be okay.
3. In the short term, print money. In the medium term the Euro needs to split into two.

[sasguru]

1. can't they just print it?
2. Germany seems to think the greeks will mend their ways, pay their taxes and adopt German working ethics and all will be okay.
3. In the short term, print money. In the medium term the Euro needs to split into two.

We all know why 1 and 3 are impossible.
And as for 2 as I have posted before, the Germans are in one of their periodic fits of unrealistic perfectionism. When they do that they always bring destruction to Europe.

[eek]

You're missing the other issue. The only people still holding Greek debt are:-

the ECB
banks that can't take any cut
Hedge funds doing nothing and waiting for Greece to go belly up and for the insurance to pay out.

None of those people want any cut let alone 50%.

[BrilloPad]

We all know why 1 and 3 are impossible.
And as for 2 as I have posted before, the Germans are in one of their periodic fits of unrealistic perfectionism. When they do that they always bring destruction to Europe.

I still hope it is not too late for some sort of sanity to return and take the least worst way out. Hopefully then the crisis an be out of the way in 2012 and we can getback to "normal". If not, looks like unstructured default with social unrest. Which will mean a few years of misery. Your son might need that Winchester rifle.....

[sasguru]

Hopefully then the crisis an be out of the way in 2012 and we can getback to "normal"...

We can't go back to "normal": which is Europe living beyond its means.
Adjustments are going to have to be made to tailor our living standards to what we actually produce.
That's true of everyone in Europe, even the Germans - although they made a good start with the Hartz reforms.

[MarillionFan]

Psssst. Hey. Over here. Got a Parthenon here going cheap.

[BlasterBates]

Portugal sold short term bonds at reduced interest rates a couple of days ago, this supposedly bankrupt state can raise money on the open market. Spain and France have just had their long term bonds over subscribed and it looks highly likely that Greece will conclude a deal on it's bonds meaning it will have been relieved of a significant portion of it's debt. If this were to be seen as unlikely there's no way Spain could have raised a significant amount today.

I'm afraid the Euro doom exists mainly in the minds of Daily Telegraph readers...

Market contradicts Daily Telegraph Euro fantasies

Investors all heave a sigh of relief as the bond auctions are taking a successful course,” said Peter Braendle, who helps manage $60 billion at Swisscanto Asset Management AG in Zurich. “The market has developed rather pleasingly, despite France’s downgrade