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View Full Version : IR35 was much better under Labour



Bagpuss
21st March 2012, 17:09
Let's get this right, The PCG says vote Tory they have promised to look at IR35, taking (with a large leap of faith) that to mean they will scrap it. As a few pointed out at the time that sounded a weak and potentially disturbing lack of commitment.

They got elected and declared the wouldn't scrap it, infact they are now going to put together a compliance team to police it more efficiently.:laugh

We have a situation now that is worse than it was before. It's only fair.

minestrone
21st March 2012, 17:20
To be fair, the PCG know feck all about everything.

original PM
21st March 2012, 17:21
Yes but really can you say that someone whose sole product is their own knowledge and all of their income comes from long term contracts really anything other than a disguised employee.

If you were that good that you could earn £50-60k for a 1 day appeareance then you have a point but when you are only working for up to say £800 per day 5 days a week and really this is just another way of being employeed - it is not really running a company for any other reason than to dodge tax.

DimPrawn
21st March 2012, 20:03
I hate tax dodging disguised employees.

Gives us small IT consultancies a bad name.

shaunbhoy
21st March 2012, 21:28
Let's get this right, The PCG says vote Tory they have promised to look at IR35, taking (with a large leap of faith) that to mean they will scrap it. As a few pointed out at the time that sounded a weak and potentially disturbing lack of commitment.

They got elected and declared the wouldn't scrap it, infact they are now going to put together a compliance team to police it more efficiently.:laugh

We have a situation now that is worse than it was before. It's only fair.

What you need is a good accountant!!!

:laugh

AlfredJPruffock
22nd March 2012, 01:06
Meet the New Boss - Same as the Old Boss OR No matter who you cote for - the Government always gets in.

Take your pick - after all - its a free country - innit Guv ?

Lockhouse
22nd March 2012, 08:11
No taxation without representation. No employee benefits, no employee tax.

Peoplesoft bloke
22nd March 2012, 08:35
Is Dodgy on holiday?

Bagpuss
22nd March 2012, 10:16
What you need is a good accountant!!!

:laugh

Agreed, but remember you aren't just laughing at me, there were 30 odd accountancy clients affected and loads more who invested in the currency scheme. One guy lost the proceeds of his house sale, which you must find hilarious.

eek
22nd March 2012, 10:28
Agreed, but remember you aren't just laughing at me, there were 30 odd accountancy clients affected and loads more who invested in the currency scheme. One guy lost the proceeds of his house sale, which you must find hilarious.

Personally I wouldn't laugh at you as you suffered from the incompetence of HMRC but for anyone who invested in that currency scheme :rollin:

Churchill
22nd March 2012, 10:33
Agreed, but remember you aren't just laughing at me, there were 30 odd accountancy clients affected and loads more who invested in the currency scheme. One guy lost the proceeds of his house sale, which you must find hilarious.

Dry yer eyes mate!

d000hg
22nd March 2012, 10:42
We have a situation now that is worse than it was before.I don't consider it worse if the existing laws are enforced properly rather than in a vague unpredictable fashion. If you're not a disguised employee, who cares.

shaunbhoy
22nd March 2012, 13:05
Agreed, but remember you aren't just laughing at me, there were 30 odd accountancy clients affected and loads more who invested in the currency scheme. One guy lost the proceeds of his house sale, which you must find hilarious.

Cry me a fooking river. Tulip happens, get over it.

:eyes

AtW
22nd March 2012, 14:00
Cry me a fooking river. Tulip happens, get over it.

Baggy is very unlucky with CUK, first the stalker, then accountant, hope this year will be good for him...

jmo21
22nd March 2012, 14:16
Yes but really can you say that someone whose sole product is their own knowledge and all of their income comes from long term contracts really anything other than a disguised employee.

If you were that good that you could earn £50-60k for a 1 day appeareance then you have a point but when you are only working for up to say £800 per day 5 days a week and really this is just another way of being employeed - it is not really running a company for any other reason than to dodge tax.

So what IS the line you draw for a 1 man company to be considered a real company?

You mention someone earning £50-60K a day, versus "up to say £800 a day".

How do new consultancy companies start, can they only be started by more than 1 person?

Is it only after a couple of years of only being a 1 man company that the goverment then deem you as never going to become a "real" consultancy with more than 1 employee?

Define "long term" as well. Are you ok if all your contracts are less than a year? What if one slips over that long term line?

What if you have 2 long term contracts concurrently, the first 2 days a week, the 2nd 3 days a week?

What if you have a normal 5 days a week contract, and do PC repair nights and the weekend like Suity? (no dig at Suity at all here by the way, a very good example to use here).

swamp
22nd March 2012, 16:23
This is what worries me most:

"office holders/controlling persons who are integral to the running of an organisation to have Pay-As-You-Earn (PAYE) and NICs deducted at source by the organisation by which they are engaged"

The definition of 'controlling' person could be quite wide. It could include roles like project manager, team lead, systems support. Any talk of forcing compliance on end clients is very damaging because many companies are so risk averse they would insist on PAYE for all contractors.

Churchill
22nd March 2012, 16:27
I only ever had a limited company in the early days because that was the only way that the agencies would deal with me.

No pretensions whatsoever of being a "proper" business, no delusions of grandeur, it was just a way of getting paid.

Bagpuss
22nd March 2012, 16:31
Yep, both events that he brought upon himself and then whinged when it all went titsup.



How exactly?

d000hg
22nd March 2012, 16:32
I applaud your honesty, if that's the case. All this poncing about pretending to run companies makes us look as seedy as the public sector directors running PSCs.

Churchill
22nd March 2012, 16:33
How exactly?

Didn't you see the link I posted yesterday, before RH deleted it?

Shame.

TimberWolf
22nd March 2012, 16:36
Nothing in the budget about using networks of companies to avoid paying tax then?
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/01/09/article-0-0C7ABB7600000578-964_233x423.jpg
Tony Blair's companies turned over £12m but he only paid £315k in tax

Tony Blair's tiny tax bill and the foul stench of fat-cat greed | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2084483/Tony-Blairs-tiny-tax-foul-stench-fat-cat-greed.html#ixzz1preK4A5F)

swamp
22nd March 2012, 16:41
I applaud your honesty, if that's the case. All this poncing about pretending to run companies makes us look as seedy as the public sector directors running PSCs.

One-man-band limited companies have always been seen as a bit shady. But since 1978 when the government effectively stopped contractors from operating as Schedule D self-employed sole traders, there has been little alternative. Besides, I get the feeling HMRC like OMB limited companies because they are firmly on the tax map. It would be very hard to police all the expenses and VAT if ~1.5m contractors just ran things from their personal bank accounts.

d000hg
22nd March 2012, 17:27
Good points.

Bagpuss
22nd March 2012, 18:52
Didn't you see the link I posted yesterday, before RH deleted it?

Shame.

Link to what? If you have some information that may help the police you should divulge it now.

Churchill
22nd March 2012, 19:03
Link to what? If you have some information that may help the police you should divulge it now.

Nah, I don't think I'll bother. RH deleted it for a reason.

Bagpuss
22nd March 2012, 23:52
Serious one and without any point scoring.

Why do you have to come on here to be nasty and aggressive? You rarely contribute anything constructive or helpful, infact I'm not sure you ever have. The only time you aren't having a go at someone is when you are bragging. Maybe it's the kick of acting like a troll?

I would have thought that now you have a son and a missus that would have calmed you down a bit, but it seems not. Perhaps in real life you are a nice bloke and you just don't translate in cyberspace.

Churchill
23rd March 2012, 08:49
Serious one and without any point scoring.

Why do you have to come on here to be nasty and aggressive? You rarely contribute anything constructive or helpful, infact I'm not sure you ever have. The only time you aren't having a go at someone is when you are bragging. Maybe it's the kick of acting like a troll?

I would have thought that now you have a son and a missus that would have calmed you down a bit, but it seems not. Perhaps in real life you are a nice bloke and you just don't translate in cyberspace.

Serious answer, it's a computer forum. Live with it. You were sniping away when I got banned so I thought I was due a retort or two.

As for you little man, you got caught with your pants down, then whinged to all and sundry about the injustice.

Oh and the link I posted earlier was to a topic on this forum. Searchable by all.

NorthWestPerm2Contr
23rd March 2012, 09:43
So what IS the line you draw for a 1 man company to be considered a real company?

You mention someone earning £50-60K a day, versus "up to say £800 a day".

How do new consultancy companies start, can they only be started by more than 1 person?

Is it only after a couple of years of only being a 1 man company that the goverment then deem you as never going to become a "real" consultancy with more than 1 employee?

Define "long term" as well. Are you ok if all your contracts are less than a year? What if one slips over that long term line?

What if you have 2 long term contracts concurrently, the first 2 days a week, the 2nd 3 days a week?

What if you have a normal 5 days a week contract, and do PC repair nights and the weekend like Suity? (no dig at Suity at all here by the way, a very good example to use here).

Bloody good response I say. Just to add to that:

Does the fact we have no employee rights not affect our employment status? We don't get holiday pay, sick pay and we have to risk not being a cushy employee to go out and hunt for work. Quite frankly the whole system is backwards, outdated and injust. Just think of the fact that the very people setting these tax policies go on to avoid paying tax themselves (God only knows how much these politicians actually make). And let's not forget the whole expenses scandal which still goes on today....

The fact is you have every right to avoid paying as much tax as possible(legally) cos otherwise you are just being screwed over by the taxman to the max. And it's not like we get good value for the tax we pay anyway.

BrilloPad
23rd March 2012, 09:54
Serious answer, it's a computer forum.

I thought this was real life. :cry1: :cry2: :cry3:

Churchill
23rd March 2012, 09:58
I thought this was real life. :cry1: :cry2: :cry3:

Did you notice the moderators in action on this topic?

It was quite funny really. All of a sudden there was a flurry of activity.

I bet they're knackered now. :laugh

Bagpuss
25th March 2012, 16:31
Serious answer, it's a computer forum. Live with it. You were sniping away when I got banned so I thought I was due a retort or two.

As for you little man, you got caught with your pants down, then whinged to all and sundry about the injustice.

Oh and the link I posted earlier was to a topic on this forum. Searchable by all.



Why waste your energy with all this bitching? It's not big and it's not clever.

adubya
25th March 2012, 17:09
What if you have a normal 5 days a week contract, and do PC repair nights and the weekend like Suity? (no dig at Suity at all here by the way, a very good example to use here).

Suity repairs PCs in the evenings ?

Are these the same ones he breaks during the day ?

MarillionFan
25th March 2012, 17:21
Suity repairs PCs in the evenings ?

Are these the same ones he breaks during the day ?

Tedious. :eyes