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Raoul Duke
19th June 2012, 10:44
How Jimmy Carr avoids tax : News 2012 : Chortle : The UK Comedy Guide (http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2012/06/19/15615/how_jimmy_carr_avoids_tax)

northernladuk
19th June 2012, 10:50
KUATB (http://forums.contractoruk.com/accounting-legal/79586-tax-avoidance-times.html)

DodgyAgent
19th June 2012, 10:52
How Jimmy Carr avoids tax : News 2012 : Chortle : The UK Comedy Guide (http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2012/06/19/15615/how_jimmy_carr_avoids_tax)

what a jerk. It serves him right.

d000hg
19th June 2012, 11:01
It's legal so surely it's perfectly fine :eyes

DodgyAgent
19th June 2012, 11:03
It's legal so surely it's perfectly fine :eyes

It is the hypocrisy of his comments about Barclays that annoys me.

AtW
19th June 2012, 11:04
It is the hypocrisy of his comments about Barclays that annoys me.

It's his (and Barclays) ability to pay 1% tax and get away with it that annoys me.

There should be a tax on debt - say 5% on primary home mortgage, 10% on all other debt.

wurzel
19th June 2012, 11:05
It is the hypocrisy of his comments about Barclays that annoys me.

Oh him. I thought the OP was referring to the camp annoying one :eyes

SupremeSpod
19th June 2012, 11:12
How Jimmy Carr avoids tax : News 2012 : Chortle : The UK Comedy Guide (http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2012/06/19/15615/how_jimmy_carr_avoids_tax)

It's legal, what's the problem?

MyUserName
19th June 2012, 11:12
Well if people want to exploit these loop holes then they can.

It is only a matter of time before HMRC stamp on it, if they were to rule tomorrow that this is tax evasion and not avoidance I believe they could backdate their claim(?). That would be a harsh number and Jimmy might find himself laughing a lot less then.

SupremeSpod
19th June 2012, 11:13
Well if people want to exploit these loop holes then they can.

It is only a matter of time before HMRC stamp on it, if they were to rule tomorrow that this is tax evasion and not avoidance I believe they could backdate their claim(?). That would be a harsh number and Jimmy might find himself laughing a lot less then.

Retrospective legislation?

That'll never catch on.

Lockhouse
19th June 2012, 11:15
I'm with DA on this. It's the hypocrisy that's the issue and that whole "Do as I say, not as I do attitude" that permeates the whole of British society these days.

MarillionFan
19th June 2012, 12:00
I'm with DA on this. It's the hypocrisy that's the issue and that whole "Do as I say, not as I do attitude" that permeates the whole of British society these days.

Be nice to everyone.

d000hg
19th June 2012, 12:40
It is the hypocrisy of his comments about Barclays that annoys me.He's a professional comedian not a political commentator. He says things people will laugh at, not things he believes.

A bit like an agent really, say what sells.

DodgyAgent
19th June 2012, 12:45
He's a professional comedian not a political commentator. He says things people will laugh at, not things he believes.

A bit like an agent really, say what sells.

I am afraid that is nonsense. Comedians set themselves apart from the people that they satarise and get audiences to personally "join them" in their sneers and laughter. He will now find it very difficult to make jokes about tax evasion unless he makes his own affairs the butt of the jokes. If he then goes on to find mirth in his "tax arrangements" in public he may well find HMRC will not see the humour.

BlasterBates
19th June 2012, 12:48
He can now sneer at people who pay tax.

He'll probably get a much higher fee for performing for rich people.

MyUserName
19th June 2012, 12:52
I would love to be there when someone heckles him about tax, someone is bound to try it and he is viscious to hecklers!

DodgyAgent
19th June 2012, 12:54
I would love to be there when someone heckles him about tax, someone is bound to try it and he is viscious to hecklers!

The hecklers will be queuing up

pacharan
19th June 2012, 13:21
I am afraid that is nonsense. Comedians set themselves apart from the people that they satarise and get audiences to personally "join them" in their sneers and laughter. He will now find it very difficult to make jokes about tax evasion unless he makes his own affairs the butt of the jokes. If he then goes on to find mirth in his "tax arrangements" in public he may well find HMRC will not see the humour.

Ken Dodd did a good line in self deprecating jokes about his tax affairs.

bless 'em all
19th June 2012, 13:32
Ken Dodd did a good line in self deprecating jokes about his tax affairs.

Ken Dodd OBE, CBE, VAT

He introduced two new diddy men. Diddy Pay & Diddy Hell. :happy

It only bites those who get on their high horse about it, like Lester Piggot.

AtW
19th June 2012, 14:26
It's legal, what's the problem?

If you don't see the problem then you are either an idiot or tax cheat, possibly both.

SupremeSpod
19th June 2012, 14:31
If you don't see the problem then you are either an idiot or tax cheat, possibly both.

I'm merely point out the fact that whilst what he is doing may appear to some to be immoral, IT IS NOT ILLEGAL.

So my little commie friend maybe it is you who is too stupid to recognise the facts of the matter.

DodgyAgent
19th June 2012, 14:33
If you don't see the problem then you are either an idiot or tax cheat, possibly both.

Either it is right or wrong, legal or illegal.

AtW
19th June 2012, 14:34
I'm merely point out the fact that whilst what he is doing may appear to some to be immoral, IT IS NOT ILLEGAL.

Your comment is only valueable in context of "why it isn't illegal and when it will become totally and utterly illegal".

AtW
19th June 2012, 14:36
Either it is right or wrong, legal or illegal.

I think you may find HMRC uses different terminology: "this scheme does not work" :laugh

SupremeSpod
19th June 2012, 14:41
Your comment is only valueable in context of "why it isn't illegal and when it will become totally and utterly illegal".

Currently it is not illegal. True or False?

NickFitz
19th June 2012, 14:45
Ken Dodd did a good line in self deprecating jokes about his tax affairs.

I remember his first TV appearance after that business, when he opened with "My accountant told me to put my money into land, so I buried it in the back garden." :laugh

MarillionFan
19th June 2012, 14:52
Tax avoidance scheme used by Jimmy Carr investigated by HMRC | Business | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jun/19/tax-scheme-jimmy-carr-hmrc)

HMRC said it was currently investigating whether the scheme was technically legal.

"If it [K2] does work technically, HMRC will challenge it in every way. There is no way anyone, no matter who they are, is going to get away with paying less than they should," they said.

Retrospectively he's going to be fecked.

AtW
19th June 2012, 14:52
Currently it is not illegal. True or False?

Only court can decide that.

In my view (and that's my view) any sham transaction with loans that are not really loans is nothing but tax evasion, but I repeat it's my personal view.

Sasdly HMRC does not like going after tax evasion because the odds are stacked in favour of defendant but I think they should be doing it more often: not just after people who benefit from it directly but also after those who create such "schemes".

AtW
19th June 2012, 14:54
By the way in those loans, do they charge market level of interest at all? Surely if loan got 0% interest then it's a sham, not a loan?

SupremeSpod
19th June 2012, 14:59
Only court can decide that.

In my view (and that's my view) any sham transaction with loans that are not really loans is nothing but tax evasion, but I repeat it's my personal view.

Sasdly HMRC does not like going after tax evasion because the odds are stacked in favour of defendant but I think they should be doing it more often: not just after people who benefit from it directly but also after those who create such "schemes".

Answer the question. Is the scheme currently as of 19/06/2012 illegal? Yes or No?

AtW
19th June 2012, 15:07
Answer the question. Is the scheme currently as of 19/06/2012 illegal? Yes or No?

Why do you care if I think it's illegal? It won't affect that case - HMRC will decide on it and little Jimmy might spend next 10 years fighting it up till the point Supreme Court tells him to fook right off. I am for one will have a good laugh all the way :laugh

SupremeSpod
19th June 2012, 15:19
Why do you care if I think it's illegal? It won't affect that case - HMRC will decide on it and little Jimmy might spend next 10 years fighting it up till the point Supreme Court tells him to fook right off. I am for one will have a good laugh all the way :laugh

By all means. However currently he is doing nothing illegal. Looks like we're in agreement.

swamp
19th June 2012, 15:26
I suspect the damage to his career may cause him to lose more money than the tax he has saved. :ohwell

Scoobos
19th June 2012, 15:27
Whatever Spod... Tax evasion is illegal.

Saying that something that is so clearly wrong and deliberate is fine because it's not illegal, is saying that Gary Glitter is ok, because what he did was not illegal in Laos, or whatever country he uses that doesnt have a law.

As much as I like the guy, and also resent HMRC wasting our billions, there's not a lot of justifying how its "ok" for someone so vocal against the big tax dodgers to do it himself.

Come on....

Scoobos
19th June 2012, 15:27
I suspect the damage to his career may cause him to lose more money than the tax he has saved. :ohwell

I hope so, but it'll all be forgotten in a couple of months.

SupremeSpod
19th June 2012, 15:29
Whatever Spod... Tax evasion is illegal.

Saying that something that is so clearly wrong and deliberate is fine because it's not illegal, is saying that Gary Glitter is ok, because what he did was not illegal in Laos, or whatever country he uses that doesnt have a law.

As much as I like the guy, and also resent HMRC wasting our billions, there's not a lot of justifying how its "ok" for someone so vocal against the big tax dodgers to do it himself.

Come on....

Tax avoidance is not illegal. Use whatever distasteful analogies you wish but don't forget the difference between avoidance and evasion.

Scoobos
19th June 2012, 15:41
it's not distasteful, its fact.

Just because something is legal in a country does not make it fine; that is the point I'm trying to make.

The same way you are saying that because its legal, its avoidance not evasion.. I'm not sure with large scale specialist schemes like this that you can , hand on heart, say you think its playing by the rules or finding a little loophole.

AtW
19th June 2012, 15:43
By all means. However currently he is doing nothing illegal. Looks like we're in agreement.

How do you know it's not illega? It has not been ruled by court as illegal, however that might not even be necessary since HMRC can fall back to "this scheme does not work" and instead of going for tax evasion (which would require illegality) they'll just go for unpaid tax + penalties enough to wipe the smile off his face forever.

AFAIK if he is not paying market interest rate on loan every year (7-20% pa) then it's a sham loan in my view and should be treated as such.

DodgyAgent
19th June 2012, 15:57
How do you know it's not illega? It has not been ruled by court as illegal, however that might not even be necessary since HMRC can fall back to "this scheme does not work" and instead of going for tax evasion (which would require illegality) they'll just go for unpaid tax + penalties enough to wipe the smile off his face forever.

AFAIK if he is not paying market interest rate on loan every year (7-20% pa) then it's a sham loan in my view and should be treated as such.

Unlike Russia one is innocent until proven guilty. It is certainly not for a sanctimonious nutter like you to decide.

AtW
19th June 2012, 16:11
Unlike Russia one is innocent until proven guilty. It is certainly not for a sanctimonious nutter like you to decide.

Not even in Soviet Union prosecution relied on self-incrimination - I thought about it when I had to fill in details about who was driving my car at the time of alleged speeding :laugh

I hope HMRC will fook him over for all he's got - taxes are not a laughing matter.

HTH

Old Greg
19th June 2012, 17:19
Why are people worked up about the hypocrisy? It's legal.

Scoobos
19th June 2012, 18:27
Spod you are right, my wife told me so and I agree. Its legal it goes.