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View Full Version : Lazy, useless team members: What to do?



Mupps
22nd June 2012, 06:16
I need advice from the seasoned hard-asses on this board.

Currently working as a team of 4 contractors, 3 of us are clearly experts in our field and spend all day in busy, in depth conversations and activities creating the solution. We lead meetings with the permies and are worth every penny. The fourth does bugger all, his minimal skills, has clearly BS'd his CV to get there, has produced one diagram in 6 weeks and could be replaced by a cardboard cutout without any impact to the project.

Do we:
a) Point out his uselessness to the Clientco and get rid of him?
b) Point out his uselessness to the Clientco and get rid of him and offer to do his work for an increase in our rate?
c) Leave it to the permies to work it out for themselves, if they ever do?
d) Live and let live, it's not our problem, although it is sort of because i have to do his work for him.

What's the best path in this situation oh wise ones?

Sockpuppet
22nd June 2012, 06:23
I need advice from the seasoned hard-asses on this board.

Currently working as a team of 4 contractors, 3 of us are clearly experts in our field and spend all day in busy, in depth conversations and activities creating the solution. We lead meetings with the permies and are worth every penny. The fourth does bugger all, his minimal skills, has clearly BS'd his CV to get there, has produced one diagram in 6 weeks and could be replaced by a cardboard cutout without any impact to the project.

Do we:
a) Point out his uselessness to the Clientco and get rid of him?
b) Point out his uselessness to the Clientco and get rid of him and offer to do his work for an increase in our rate?
c) Leave it to the permies to work it out for themselves, if they ever do?
d) Live and let live, it's not our problem, although it is sort of because i have to do his work for him.

What's the best path in this situation oh wise ones?

b) and d) don't really apply as you've said he doesn't do anything. I'd go with a) personally. You can only mention it, after that what clientco does is upto them.

Diver
22nd June 2012, 06:31
b) and d) don't really apply as you've said he doesn't do anything. I'd go with a) personally. You can only mention it, after that what clientco does is upto them.

WHS

But the three of you refuse to carry his load further without a rate increase

gingerjedi
22nd June 2012, 06:36
d) I admire his audacity.

sbakoola
22nd June 2012, 06:45
This is a very similar situation which occurred at my current client site 4 new guys and one was useless and obviously BS'ed on his CV and he even dared to complain to HR as a contractor about the work he was given.

A couple of the contractors in my team decided to talk about him behind his back at a works drinks to the boss which the said contractor wasn't attending. The next day he was marched into the office and then marched out of the building, it was shocking as I've never seen that before in any IT role I've worked in.

I then began to wonder what the two contractors who successfully sacked the contractor were saying about me as I later learned that one of them bumped into the ousted guy in the street months later and never revealed that he was the instigator of his ejection from the building.

In a nutshell doing this creates mistrust within a team of contractors (i never 100% trusted my fellow contractors after this) but the alternative may have meant increased chances of the project failing carrying a guy who was not capable.

cojak
22nd June 2012, 06:49
You should have got in first and left the other 2 wondering about you... :glasses

MarillionFan
22nd June 2012, 07:01
Don't worry about it Mupps. The other three have caught you out, but hopefully you'll be able to offer more as time goes by.

Mupps
22nd June 2012, 07:17
Don't worry about it Mupps. The other three have caught you out, but hopefully you'll be able to offer more as time goes by.

Damn, i've been rumbled.

cojak
22nd June 2012, 07:18
Damn, i've been rumbled.
:laugh

SupremeSpod
22nd June 2012, 07:19
I need advice from the seasoned hard-asses on this board.

Currently working as a team of 4 contractors, 3 of us are clearly experts in our field and spend all day in busy, in depth conversations and activities creating the solution. We lead meetings with the permies and are worth every penny. The fourth does bugger all, his minimal skills, has clearly BS'd his CV to get there, has produced one diagram in 6 weeks and could be replaced by a cardboard cutout without any impact to the project.

Do we:
a) Point out his uselessness to the Clientco and get rid of him?
b) Point out his uselessness to the Clientco and get rid of him and offer to do his work for an increase in our rate?
c) Leave it to the permies to work it out for themselves, if they ever do?
d) Live and let live, it's not our problem, although it is sort of because i have to do his work for him.

What's the best path in this situation oh wise ones?

Why is it *your* problem?

If you have dependencies on his deliverables raise it with your manager.

If he has no impact on you personally keep your nose out.

Gonzo
22nd June 2012, 07:20
I need advice from the seasoned hard-asses on this board.

Currently working as a team of 4 contractors, 3 of us are clearly experts in our field and spend all day in busy, in depth conversations and activities creating the solution. We lead meetings with the permies and are worth every penny. The fourth does bugger all, his minimal skills, has clearly BS'd his CV to get there, has produced one diagram in 6 weeks and could be replaced by a cardboard cutout without any impact to the project.

Do we:
a) Point out his uselessness to the Clientco and get rid of him?
b) Point out his uselessness to the Clientco and get rid of him and offer to do his work for an increase in our rate?
c) Leave it to the permies to work it out for themselves, if they ever do?
d) Live and let live, it's not our problem, although it is sort of because i have to do his work for him.

What's the best path in this situation oh wise ones?Are you certain on that point?

Another possibility is that they are well connected to someone in the organisation's hierarchy in which case if you could be making trouble for yourself if you take action without more carefully thinking it through.

Gonzo
22nd June 2012, 07:21
Why is it *your* problem?

If you have dependencies on his deliverables raise it with your manager.

If he has no impact on you personally keep your nose out.WHS

Gibbon
22nd June 2012, 07:35
I need advice from the seasoned hard-asses on this board.

Currently working as a team of 4 contractors, 3 of us are clearly experts in our field and spend all day in busy, in depth conversations and activities creating the solution. We lead meetings with the permies and are worth every penny. The fourth does bugger all, his minimal skills, has clearly BS'd his CV to get there, has produced one diagram in 6 weeks and could be replaced by a cardboard cutout without any impact to the project.

Do we:
a) Point out his uselessness to the Clientco and get rid of him?
b) Point out his uselessness to the Clientco and get rid of him and offer to do his work for an increase in our rate?
c) Leave it to the permies to work it out for themselves, if they ever do?
d) Live and let live, it's not our problem, although it is sort of because i have to do his work for him.

What's the best path in this situation oh wise ones?

Well you could try and help him and if he picks it up then problem solved. If not then a least you tried.

Look at it this way, one day in the future you could be fighting for scraps of work and end up B'shting on your CV just to get some work. You wouldn't then want to go in somewhere where the other arrogant, unhelpful and selfish contractors are plotting behind your back.

MarillionFan
22nd June 2012, 07:36
Well you could try and help him and if he picks it up then problem solved. If not then a least you tried.

Look at it this way, one day in the future you could be fighting for scraps of work and end up B'shting on your CV just to get some work. You wouldn't then want to go in somewhere where the other arrogant, unhelpful and selfish contractors are plotting behind your back.

Be nice to people on the way up, you'll never know when you need them on the way back down.

Dallas
22nd June 2012, 07:42
Be nice to people on the way up, you'll never know when you need them on the way back down.

agree, if you feel you have to take action, separate out the tasks explicitly and evenly with deadlines, pop it in an email to all inc clientco, monitor and see who can deliver - just go very transparent on communication and responsibility, he'll show himself up soon enough.

Longer term though, its not your problem, better the devil you know, there is one in every village.

jmo21
22nd June 2012, 08:28
Why is it *your* problem?

If you have dependencies on his deliverables raise it with your manager.

If he has no impact on you personally keep your nose out.

I had a similar problem, me and 2 other contractors, being dragged down by a 4th, who was just completely inexperienced, I don't think he'd lied on his CV, was just too junior.

We basically made it clear we were being slowed down to the permie lead, who surprisingly to us, tried to help the guy along for a few weeks, before eventually giving him the boot.

If it is not affecting me however, I wouldn't feel comfortable "telling" on him, even if it would help client co in long run.

Diver
22nd June 2012, 08:33
Don't encourage the slackers and time wasters, it lowers the standards of the industry and reflects badly on everyone directly.
I don't tolerate slackers or incompetents on my teams and appreciate others that don't.
At the end of the day, we are only as good as the team as a whole, if some of you are willing to be second rate then so be it, but the rest of us have more pride in our work and value our worth to the clients.
That worth is reflected in the rates we charge or the Salaries we earn, and in our professional reputaions within the industry.

psychocandy
22nd June 2012, 08:41
I need advice from the seasoned hard-asses on this board.

Currently working as a team of 4 contractors, 3 of us are clearly experts in our field and spend all day in busy, in depth conversations and activities creating the solution. We lead meetings with the permies and are worth every penny. The fourth does bugger all, his minimal skills, has clearly BS'd his CV to get there, has produced one diagram in 6 weeks and could be replaced by a cardboard cutout without any impact to the project.

Do we:
a) Point out his uselessness to the Clientco and get rid of him?
b) Point out his uselessness to the Clientco and get rid of him and offer to do his work for an increase in our rate?
c) Leave it to the permies to work it out for themselves, if they ever do?
d) Live and let live, it's not our problem, although it is sort of because i have to do his work for him.

What's the best path in this situation oh wise ones?

Feel strongly about this.

C). WTF has it got to do with you. As long as you're getting paid its got sod all to do with you. Not your problem.

I'm sorry but even if the guy is a blagger how far do you take? Do you suggest 'dobbing in' fellow contractors if they're not quite as good as you hoped. Not cool to mess with someone elses livelihood.

Dont act like a permie by getting involved in office politics and tittle-tattle.

Paddy
22nd June 2012, 08:45
Why is it *your* problem?

If you have dependencies on his deliverables raise it with your manager.

If he has no impact on you personally keep your nose out.

+1

I never bother with what other contractors are up to or what rates they are on. Get on and do your work and invoice. If you start raising issues there are those people who will say that all contractors are the same and you will be tarred with the same brush.

d000hg
22nd June 2012, 08:45
Currently working as a team of 4 contractors, 3 of us are clearly experts in our field ... The fourth does bugger all, his minimal skills, has clearly BS'd his CV to get there, has produced one diagram in 6 weeks and could be replaced by a cardboard cutout without any impact to the project.
...
What's the best path in this situation oh wise ones?Keep your head down and hope nobody notices.

CodeCobbler
22nd June 2012, 09:00
I hope I never have to work on one of your projects where you "expose" me. The d*ckhead behaviours that you are exhibiting are the reason I wont work in permie.

Bumfluff
22nd June 2012, 09:03
I need advice from the seasoned hard-asses on this board.

Currently working as a team of 4 contractors, 3 of us are clearly experts in our field and spend all day in busy, in depth conversations and activities creating the solution. We lead meetings with the permies and are worth every penny. The fourth does bugger all, his minimal skills, has clearly BS'd his CV to get there, has produced one diagram in 6 weeks and could be replaced by a cardboard cutout without any impact to the project.

Do we:
a) Point out his uselessness to the Clientco and get rid of him?
b) Point out his uselessness to the Clientco and get rid of him and offer to do his work for an increase in our rate?
c) Leave it to the permies to work it out for themselves, if they ever do?
d) Live and let live, it's not our problem, although it is sort of because i have to do his work for him.

What's the best path in this situation oh wise ones?

And he is probably on a better rate than you as well.

MarillionFan
22nd June 2012, 09:07
No-one likes a grass.

cojak
22nd June 2012, 09:07
I hope I never have to work on one of your projects where you "expose" me. The d*ckhead behaviours that you are exhibiting are the reason I wont work in permie.

The OP didn't 'expose' anyone.

He merely observed from the sidelines.

But don't think that you're immune from it - if you don't do your job and it impacts the boss, your feet won't touch the ground as they boot you out the door.

SimonMac
22nd June 2012, 09:17
I think it's a case of Keep Calm and Invoice On as long as it doesn't impact your deliverable, if so raise it as a risk and let ClientCo handle it themselves, as I have yet to see a bad contractor not come undone in the end.

BolshieBastard
22nd June 2012, 09:34
Think the OP is displaying permie traits here, effectively wanting to grass up another contractor. Imo, it's up to the manager to make sure all contractors (and permies) are producing to the required standards.

I was at a multi national bank a few years back and it was clear to everyone, one contractor was taking the piss (and you took it big time, didnt you Mike?). He wasnt doing the hours then was allowed to work from home one day a week but he somehow managed to turn this around to being in the office one day a week. He then started coming in on that one day for about 3 hours before going home saying he'd finish work at home!

Although we were all pissed off with his actions nothing was done and eventually one contractor raised it. The manager by this time was a contractor himself and said he'd noted the lack of quality work compared to the rest of the team so he mentioned it to the permies that he didnt want this one contractor on the team because everyone else was producing but he wasnt.

So, he was allocated other work and taken off our team. About a week later he had his laptop withdrawn. They didnt bin him off but didnt renew him when his contract ended. When the client recruited again, all other teams were taken back on but he wasnt. He couldnt understand why we'd all been taken back on but he hadnt!

TBH, I was a bit uneasy with the contractor who did complain about the lazy contractor. One, because imo, the managers should have picked this up and done something about it but two, the contractor who did complain could quite easily have targetted other contractors about other issues for all I know.

So, if you want to go down the avenue of grassing or reporting other contractors, dont be surprised if you find one day someone returns the favour.

CodeCobbler
22nd June 2012, 09:35
The OP didn't 'expose' anyone.

He merely observed from the sidelines.

But don't think that you're immune from it - if you don't do your job and it impacts the boss, your feet won't touch the ground as they boot you out the door.

I guess your right that its always going to be there, I would say contractors are more likely to get blame when things go wrong.

tractor
22nd June 2012, 09:53
I need advice from the seasoned hard-asses on this board.

Currently working as a team of 4 contractors, 3 of us are clearly experts in our field and spend all day in busy, in depth conversations and activities creating the solution. We lead meetings with the permies and are worth every penny. The fourth does bugger all, his minimal skills, has clearly BS'd his CV to get there, has produced one diagram in 6 weeks and could be replaced by a cardboard cutout without any impact to the project.

Do we:
a) Point out his uselessness to the Clientco and get rid of him?
b) Point out his uselessness to the Clientco and get rid of him and offer to do his work for an increase in our rate?
c) Leave it to the permies to work it out for themselves, if they ever do?
d) Live and let live, it's not our problem, although it is sort of because i have to do his work for him.

What's the best path in this situation oh wise ones?

I have highlighted the part that I don't understand. How does that come about?

a. Are you invoicing extra hours?
b. Does your own week have enough slack built in to accomodate this?
c. Are you doing this for free?

If it's a then kudos to you but why do you want to upset the apple cart? If it's b then you are clearly overcharging :) again kudos. If it's c then you are a mug. Stop doing it, when you are asked for the product, look squarely and quizzically at the guy who is supposed to be producing.

Alternatively, all this is management's responsibility to recognise and deal with. Not your's.

Mupps
22nd June 2012, 09:56
Don't encourage the slackers and time wasters, it lowers the standards of the industry and reflects badly on everyone directly.
I don't tolerate slackers or incompetents on my teams and appreciate others that don't.
At the end of the day, we are only as good as the team as a whole, if some of you are willing to be second rate then so be it, but the rest of us have more pride in our work and value our worth to the clients.
That worth is reflected in the rates we charge or the Salaries we earn, and in our professional reputaions within the industry.

I agree with this.

I've invested a lot of time, money and effort in being highly skilled and highly capable. I have high standards and feel that we should earn our high pay. I have a very low tolerance of uselessness in any area of life, let alone when someone is sat on [a good rate] doing sod all.



But also I agree with all who say : "leave it alone it's not my problem". Ultimately i wouldn't take any steps to grass this guy up as it's not in my nature. But this forum is a great sounding board and it's an interesting problem to share opinions on.

so thanks everyone, I'll leave it run its natural course...

Diver
22nd June 2012, 09:59
The OP didn't 'expose' anyone.

He merely observed from the sidelines.

But don't think that you're immune from it - if you don't do your job and it impacts the boss, your feet won't touch the ground as they boot you out the door.

WSS

Being in project management I sometimes have the unpleasant duty of dismissing people who aren't quite up to scratch if they are impacting the team, and the pleasant task of kicking out the freeloaders.

cojak
22nd June 2012, 10:06
But basically, don't worry about the other contractors, this is all you need to remember...

http://forums.contractoruk.com/business-contracts/77021-best-article-ive-read-how-get-paid-more.html

:smokin

NorthWestPerm2Contr
22nd June 2012, 10:07
Similar thing happened to me last time at a large Bank last year. They will eventually realise and give you more responsibility. I made excuses for the guy and never back stabbed anybody to anybody. As a result the team lead trusted me much more, they terminated the other guy once they realised and handed over all the work to me.

Whatever you do don't cause bad feeling, if you do tell them then do so in a very professional way and at an appropriate time and place.

Diver
22nd June 2012, 10:17
But basically, don't worry about the other contractors, this is all you need to remember...

http://forums.contractoruk.com/business-contracts/77021-best-article-ive-read-how-get-paid-more.html

:smokin

It's so true!

But I always look a little deeper, and it's quite amusing having a one to one with someone who thinks that they have the wool pulled over your eyes - and then congratulating them on their work and setting them tasks/goals with weekly progress reviews and watching them squirm :laugh

cojak
22nd June 2012, 10:22
It's so true!

But I always look a little deeper, and it's quite amusing having a one to one with someone who thinks that they have the wool pulled over your eyes - and then congratulating them on their work and setting them tasks/goals with weekly progress reviews and watching them squirm :laugh

:happy

I'm in the happy position of doing the article AND getting deliverables through the door - THAT's what makes your boss look good (that and ensuring that they know when you've stopped them from stepping on a steaming pile of doodah...

My aim isn't to do the least work, but get extensions without the rate cut.. ;)

Diver
22nd June 2012, 10:28
:happy

I'm in the happy position of doing the article AND getting deliverables through the door - THAT's what makes your boss look good (that and ensuring that they know when you've stopped them from stepping on a steaming pile of doodah...

My aim isn't to do the least work, but get extensions without the rate cut.. ;)

That's the attitude!

I'm now permie, and my work ethic is reflected in the fact that I have been given another 10% raise and had my bonus increased by 25% again this year.

We are all in it to make money, but it is easier to make money when you are appreciated

Mupps
22nd June 2012, 10:35
But it's not all about the money.

There is also the undeniable good feeling of having done a good job and delivered something tanglible.

I don't want to earn good money for keeping my chair warm. I want to earn it for doing a good job.

psychocandy
22nd June 2012, 10:37
I had a fellow contractor do it to me once. He'd been with the client for years and was pretty much exactly like a permie to them. Anyway, we had a few minor disagreements about a few things (nothing serious or untoward I just didnt agree with him on some technical issues) but he was sortta the senior techie so he then decided to tell management I wasnt up for it. Made a few things up as well about what I hadnt done etc.

Luckily, the client knew the score. Apparently, as I found out later, he had done this several times in the past with different people. God knows why the client kept him there but he was one of these people who they knew were a PITA but couldnt get rid because he knew the system.

Took all my willpower not to chin the twat after this though!

russell
22nd June 2012, 10:41
I would hate to work with a contractor like you, even thinking about grassing him up make you suspect and going for his rate after show you have character defects, they should get rid of you. Some contractors need to take a role out of there skillset to keep the gravy train running. I think you should go back to premiedom where a backstabbing little piece of shit like you would be more suitable.


HTH

Old Greg
22nd June 2012, 10:42
I got a client to get rid of two newly joined contractors (one replaced the other) after they had been in for two weeks. They were totally unsuitable and were going to screw up the project. It's a business arrangement, not an employment relationship so they had to go - that's one of the reasons why we're paid so much.

The only amusing thing was that I got a kind of respect in the organisation as a ruthless sonofabitch, which really isn't me at all - but the business persona has to be different.

Get rid of them.

Mupps
22nd June 2012, 10:48
I would hate to work with a contractor like you, even thinking about grassing him up make you suspect and going for his rate after show you have character defects, they should get rid of you. Some contractors need to take a role out of there skillset to keep the gravy train running. I think you should go back to premiedom where a backstabbing little piece of tulip like you would be more suitable.


HTH

That's all very well and groovy, but we're all being paid a lot of money to deliver something. Each of us has an element of the overall design and they all need to interface correctly or it won't work.

Maybe you are one of the chair warmers that want a peaceful life and are happy to invoice and be shit. Good luck with that.

Diver
22nd June 2012, 10:50
Some contractors need to take a role out of there skillset to keep the gravy train running.HTH

So basicically what you are saying is that you have a very poor work ethic and would take a job on that you can't do and freeload of the other team members.
As a contractor I would have outed you and as a project manager you'd be out the door and the word would be spread.

I'm sorry, but I do not like dishonesty and deception and have a particular dislike for freeloaders.

But then again, we all have a different outlook on morals so I'll leave you to yours and I'll stick to my own.

psychocandy
22nd June 2012, 10:52
I would hate to work with a contractor like you, even thinking about grassing him up make you suspect and going for his rate after show you have character defects, they should get rid of you. Some contractors need to take a role out of there skillset to keep the gravy train running. I think you should go back to premiedom where a backstabbing little piece of tulip like you would be more suitable.


HTH

Well said...

russell
22nd June 2012, 10:52
That's all very well and groovy, but we're all being paid a lot of money to deliver something. Each of us has an element of the overall design and they all need to interface correctly or it won't work.

Maybe you are one of the chair warmers that want a peaceful life and are happy to invoice and be tulip. Good luck with that.

I do my job well, but I also help out fellow contractors, because I know one day I may need a bit of cover. I can hear you now "Boss he isn't doing as much as us, lick lick, sack him and give me his pay, lick lick, can I get you anything, tea, coffee, blowjob?", you are the typical arse licking little streak of piss that I hate.

psychocandy
22nd June 2012, 10:53
That's all very well and groovy, but we're all being paid a lot of money to deliver something. Each of us has an element of the overall design and they all need to interface correctly or it won't work.

Maybe you are one of the chair warmers that want a peaceful life and are happy to invoice and be tulip. Good luck with that.

Yes, and as long as its not affecting you personally its none of your business....

Maybe your one of those people whos going to get chinned by someone else soon?

russell
22nd June 2012, 10:56
So basicically what you are saying is that you have a very poor work ethic and would take a job on that you can't do and freeload of the other team members.
As a contractor I would have outed you and as a project manager you'd be out the door and the word would be spread.

I'm sorry, but I do not like dishonesty and deception and have a particular dislike for freeloaders.

But then again, we all have a different outlook on morals so I'll leave you to yours and I'll stick to my own.

Where did I say I have a poor work ethic? I don't I work hard and deliver quality, what I don't do is grass fellow contractors up, which makes me 10000x time better than little grasses like you and the OP.

cojak
22nd June 2012, 10:56
What's up with you two?

Been dobbed in yourselves?

d000hg
22nd June 2012, 10:57
Yeah I think you touched a nerve.

russell
22nd June 2012, 10:59
What's up with you two?

Been dobbed in yourselves?

Never, but I have seen twats like the OP, i.e. two faced rats, and it's usually an inferiority complex that drives them to point out fellow contractors shortcomings.

Doggy Styles
22nd June 2012, 10:59
Yes, and as long as its not affecting you personally its none of your business....

Maybe your one of those people whos going to get chinned by someone else soon?Has anyone on here ever been disappointed not to get a gig? Perhaps some incompetent got it instead, comfortably stuffing money in the bank for doing very little, while you're still on the bench?

To some extent I agree with keeping one's head down, but also think of all those the bench that would jump at the chance of doing that job properly.

Old Greg
22nd June 2012, 11:02
I do my job well, but I also help out fellow contractors, because I know one day I may need a bit of cover. I can hear you now "Boss he isn't doing as much as us, lick lick, sack him and give me his pay, lick lick, can I get you anything, tea, coffee, blowjob?", you are the typical arse licking little streak of piss that I hate.

I think we have a pretty good idea of who you really hate.

DodgyAgent
22nd June 2012, 11:21
But it's not all about the money.

There is also the undeniable good feeling of having done a good job and delivered something tanglible.

I don't want to earn good money for keeping my chair warm. I want to earn it for doing a good job.

Become an agent :happy

Old Greg
22nd June 2012, 11:23
Become an agent :happy

Now now. You know these geeks lack the requisite charm and integrity.

Diver
22nd June 2012, 11:30
Where did I say I have a poor work ethic? I don't I work hard and deliver quality, what I don't do is grass fellow contractors up, which makes me 10000x time better than little grasses like you and the OP.

Change of tack! - What you said was;


Some contractors need to take a role out of there skillset to keep the gravy train running

and you honesty think that this is Good work ethic!

For your information it is Not, it is gaining moneys by deception, it is against the law and certainly makes you 10000x times worse me and the OP.

Give it up russel, you have shown your true colours already so stop trying to backpedal :laugh

Diver
22nd June 2012, 11:34
Never, but I have seen twats like the OP, i.e. two faced rats, and it's usually an inferiority complex that drives them to point out fellow contractors shortcomings.

As I'm in project management and a consultant, and have been for many years, why would I have an inferiority complex :confused:

Your vehement defense of "contractors shortcomings" gives some indication as to your complex :laugh

russell
22nd June 2012, 11:35
Change of tack! - What you said was;



and you honesty think that this is Good work ethic!

For your information it is Not, it is gaining moneys by deception, it is against the law and certainly makes you 10000x times worse me and the OP.

Give it up russel, you have shown your true colours already so stop trying to backpedal :laugh

I said that about other contractors, not me, I have never had to take a role outside my skillset. Anyway you post on here most of the day so unless your client is CUK then I think your work ethic is suspect. You should get back to work, your line managers anus won't lick itself. :laugh

Diver
22nd June 2012, 11:45
I said that about other contractors, not me, I have never had to take a role outside my skillset. Anyway you post on here most of the day so unless your client is CUK then I think your work ethic is suspect. You should get back to work, your line managers anus won't lick itself. :laugh

Day off :D

and the line managers work under me, I'm a senior project manager and get paid more for what I know than what I do :wink

You really are a foul mouthed bad mannered child arent you :spank: :laugh

I'm sorry, I have great difficulty taking you seriously

eek
22nd June 2012, 11:48
Day off :D

and the line managers work under me, I'm a senior project manager and get paid more for what I know than what I do :wink

You really are a foul mouthed bad mannered child arent you :spank: :laugh

I'm sorry, I have great difficulty taking you seriously

You're not the only one with that difficulty.

Personally I live and let live because you never know why someone is there.

Durbs
22nd June 2012, 11:48
I had to make that call once but in that instance it was a fairly simple decision as the guy was basically incompetent. Someone like that brings the team down and, as a contractor, its your job to deliver for your client and anything that affects that delivery, they should know about.

This guy managed 2 reported quality incidents within the space of 2 days, both committing stored proc changes to a production database rather than development. We all do that once, but to do the same fcking thing the next day??? Rubbish, unbuildable code was constantly committed to the repository meaning all the other team members had to work sorting out his mess and we simply couldn't trust anything did. He also took the piss 'working from home'.

We had a few words about it but he didn't seem bothered and nothing changed so in the end had to do the dirty and have a word with the permie management. Seems they were well aware there were problems with this guy already and he was called into a meeting and signed his own death warrant by becoming aggressive with the manager lady.

Worked out well because he was binned immediately and his replacement (a CUK'er actually) was a top notch developer.

So if he's not a mate, not good at his job and making the team inefficient (and therefore making YOU look bad) then I dont see a problem with it. Cover your own arse.

Mich the Tester
22nd June 2012, 11:49
I need advice from the seasoned hard-asses on this board.

Currently working as a team of 4 contractors, 3 of us are clearly experts in our field and spend all day in busy, in depth conversations and activities creating the solution. We lead meetings with the permies and are worth every penny. The fourth does bugger all, his minimal skills, has clearly BS'd his CV to get there, has produced one diagram in 6 weeks and could be replaced by a cardboard cutout without any impact to the project.

Do we:
a) Point out his uselessness to the Clientco and get rid of him?
b) Point out his uselessness to the Clientco and get rid of him and offer to do his work for an increase in our rate?
c) Leave it to the permies to work it out for themselves, if they ever do?
d) Live and let live, it's not our problem, although it is sort of because i have to do his work for him.

What's the best path in this situation oh wise ones?

Leave me alone. I haven't done anything to hurt you and I'm just trying to make a living. If you really want, I'll go and sit in another room if you like; just send me an e-mail once a day and I'll fetch the coffee, but stop victimising me like this.

russell
22nd June 2012, 11:50
Day off :D

and the line managers work under me, I'm a senior project manager and get paid more for what I know than what I do :wink

You really are a foul mouthed bad mannered child arent you :spank: :laugh

I'm sorry, I have great difficulty taking you seriously

God, a project manager, it all makes sense now, now the little respect I had for you has completely gone. Project management shouldn't be a separate job, it's something a senior engineer or tester could do 1 hour a week. I mean all you need to be able to do is use excel and set up meetings in oulook. :laugh

eek
22nd June 2012, 11:56
God, a project manager, it all makes sense now, now the little respect I had for you has completely gone. Project management shouldn't be a separate job, it's something a senior engineer or tester could do 1 hour a week. I mean all you need to be able to do is use excel and set up meetings in oulook. :laugh

You go girl :ladybags::fight::ladybags:

russell
22nd June 2012, 12:02
You go girl :ladybags::fight::ladybags:

It's weird because I rarely get into arguments here

doodab
22nd June 2012, 12:02
I am lazy. I'm not useless, but I just cannot be arsed. I do however appear to be managing substantially better than some people who are trying very hard, principally because by doing **** all I'm not making things any worse and this is a vast improvement on what they are turning out.

doodab
22nd June 2012, 12:03
It's weird because I rarely get into arguments here

That's bollocks

Diver
22nd June 2012, 12:07
God, a project manager, it all makes sense now, now the little respect I had for you has completely gone. Project management shouldn't be a separate job, it's something a senior engineer or tester could do 1 hour a week. I mean all you need to be able to do is use excel and set up meetings in oulook. :laugh

I am also a senior engineering consultant :wink

and if you think that's all a project manager does, then it's obvious that you don't know what a project manager does and are doomed to be one of the little people forever :laugh

+You forgot the best bits

Sacking incompetents
Sacking freeloaders
Blacklisting wasters
Collecting my overinflated Salary
Collecting my Bonuses (earned off the backs of the proles) :smokin

:poke::popcorn:

Mich the Tester
22nd June 2012, 12:10
I am also a senior engineering consultant :wink

and if you think that's all a project manager does, then it's obvious that you don't know what a project manager does and are doomed to be one of the little people forever :laugh

+You forgot the best bits

Sacking incompetents
Sacking freeloaders
Blacklisting wasters
Collecting my overinflated Salary
Collecting my Bonuses (earned off the backs of the proles) :smokin

:poke::popcorn:

You are Sasguru and I claim my free discount voucher for an eco-shed.

:wink

Diver
22nd June 2012, 12:16
You are Sasguru and I claim my free discount voucher for an eco-shed.

:wink

Shut up mitch, I've got a good wind up going here with the poison dwarf :laugh

russell
22nd June 2012, 12:31
Collecting my overinflated Salary


That badly spelled line is the only true one. 30k a year for surfing the web all day sure is overinflated :laugh

russell
22nd June 2012, 12:32
You are Sasguru and I claim my free discount voucher for an eco-shed.

:wink

I'd never thought I would say this but...that's an insult to SAS.

Diver
22nd June 2012, 12:33
That badly spelled line is the only true one. 30k a year for surfing the web all day sure is overinflated :laugh

try three times that figure + Bonuses

Now who's laughing :laugh

BolshieBastard
22nd June 2012, 12:37
I am also a senior engineering consultant :wink

and if you think that's all a project manager does, then it's obvious that you don't know what a project manager does and are doomed to be one of the little people forever :laugh

+You forgot the best bits

Sacking incompetents
Sacking freeloaders
Blacklisting wasters
Collecting my overinflated Salary
Collecting my Bonuses (earned off the backs of the proles) :smokin

:poke::popcorn:


Collecting a bonus!?

That's ******* permie talk!

russell
22nd June 2012, 12:38
try three times that figure + Bonuses

Now who's laughing :laugh

Boasting about 90k a year , I remember the days I was only earning that.

Jog On
22nd June 2012, 12:50
I got someone binned once. It was more a knocking over of the first domino in a stack that fell very quickly.

We were billing by the hour and the guy was rolling in at 11 am but billing from 6-7 am every day. He'd disappear for hours on end for what turns out we're coke deals he was doing.

He did nothing and expected us to carry him. PM would email him a task and he'd doctor it and forward it on to me to make it look like PM had emailed the task to me..

Had no intention of pulling any of his weight and expected to bill for more than us while getting us to do his work. Outing him was a joint effort but it was me who lit the fuse.

I'd do it again in a heart beat. This guy was a chancer and a risk to the project.

russell
22nd June 2012, 12:54
I got someone binned once. It was more a knocking over of the first domino in a stack that fell very quickly.

We were billing by the hour and the guy was rolling in at 11 am but billing from 6-7 am every day. He'd disappear for hours on end for what turns out we're coke deals he was doing.

He did nothing and expected us to carry him. PM would email him a task and he'd doctor it and forward it on to me to make it look like PM had emailed the task to me..

Had no intention of pulling any of his weight and expected to bill for more than us while getting us to do his work. Outing him was a joint effort but it was me who lit the fuse.

I'd do it again in a heart beat. This guy was a chancer and a risk to the project.

That's acceptable.

Mich the Tester
22nd June 2012, 12:57
That's acceptable.

So you've forgiven him already?

Old Greg
22nd June 2012, 13:11
I got someone binned once. It was more a knocking over of the first domino in a stack that fell very quickly.

We were billing by the hour and the guy was rolling in at 11 am but billing from 6-7 am every day. He'd disappear for hours on end for what turns out we're coke deals he was doing.

He did nothing and expected us to carry him. PM would email him a task and he'd doctor it and forward it on to me to make it look like PM had emailed the task to me..

Had no intention of pulling any of his weight and expected to bill for more than us while getting us to do his work. Outing him was a joint effort but it was me who lit the fuse.

I'd do it again in a heart beat. This guy was a chancer and a risk to the project.

Do you reckon he'll make it in California?

Diver
22nd June 2012, 13:23
Collecting a bonus!?

That's ******* permie talk!

That's because I'm a permie now (who works fom home most of the time) :D

Jog On
22nd June 2012, 13:33
Do you reckon he'll make it in California?

For a while, until he gets either banged up or knocked off.

cojak
22nd June 2012, 13:34
So you've forgiven him already?

Yeah, he buys donuts. You only make the coffee...

Diver
22nd June 2012, 13:35
Yeah, he buys donuts. You only make the coffee...

Would you trust him to make the coffee? :rolleyes: :D

oscarose
22nd June 2012, 13:37
I need advice from the seasoned hard-asses on this board.

Currently working as a team of 4 contractors, 3 of us are clearly experts in our field and spend all day in busy, in depth conversations and activities creating the solution. We lead meetings with the permies and are worth every penny. The fourth does bugger all, his minimal skills, has clearly BS'd his CV to get there, has produced one diagram in 6 weeks and could be replaced by a cardboard cutout without any impact to the project.

Do we:
a) Point out his uselessness to the Clientco and get rid of him?
b) Point out his uselessness to the Clientco and get rid of him and offer to do his work for an increase in our rate?
c) Leave it to the permies to work it out for themselves, if they ever do?
d) Live and let live, it's not our problem, although it is sort of because i have to do his work for him.

What's the best path in this situation oh wise ones?

HTH

Pogle
1st July 2012, 08:17
Several times over my contracting career, I have been asked my opinion of another contractor by clientco.
If they are asking that question, then they must have concerns. I give an honest answer about their technical abilities, and so far they've always been right to question.
I'm in a niche market and have many years experience in my area. I am honest on my CV and I work hard.
I expect other contractors to do the same - unless of course there's nothing to do!

SupremeSpod
1st July 2012, 08:28
Several times over my contracting career, I have been asked my opinion of another contractor by clientco.
If they are asking that question, then they must have concerns. I give an honest answer about their technical abilities, and so far they've always been right to question.
I'm in a niche market and have many years experience in my area. I am honest on my CV and I work hard.
I expect other contractors to do the same - unless of course there's nothing to do!

The key point there has been highlighted.

EternalOptimist
1st July 2012, 11:03
It's a tricky one. Someone might be taking you down with them, but you might be putting your own head on the block if you turn states evidence.
I had this on my very first contract, guy was rubbish.
I get round it by writing anonymous stuff on the bog walls. This guy was hauled into the PM's office and faced directly with the allegations
'Is it true you are a stinky-bum plop plop pants ?'
He didnt really have an answer, so they booted him out, damn freeloader


:rolleyes: