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suityou01
8th August 2012, 20:29
OK this actually happened. Today. I did this. Yes me. Suity.

The SAP implementation programme I am currently delivering a project for has hit a snag. That snag is data migration. Too little credence, too late despite the warnings. So it's iceberg time.

I was summoned to the SAP team meeting to explain how we weren't going to deliver the migration on time. Dreading it if truth be told, and I wanted to hand the towel in weeks ago, but chose to stay and fight.

So the meeting started, and suity is on the ropes. Accusations, blame, getting nasty. I am in there with my PM, who is doing his best to defend the situation. They're not listening. Their programme is going off piste anyways and we are the perfect scapegoat, even if we delivered the migration on time they would still fail to hit deadline but this is hushed up, super political.

Was I cacking it? No. Was I rising to the bait? No. Did I hear them all out calmly before returning salvo? Too right I fecking did.

20 minutes of laying it on the line, calmly but firmly. Explaining that some of the requirements were unachievable, too esoteric and not needed. Advising on business contingency, workarounds, likely scenarios the whole ball of wax.

The return salvo was from the head of IT, who kept on saying "I just don't see why it's this difficult?". The sucker punch from suity was then delivered, apparently I raised my voice several decibels and thrust a finger in his face saying "don't get complacent!" and he backed right down.

Got an extension to 1st November, and the team I asked for!!! The Bob's don't get this one, I do, and I managed to get another contractor an extension into the bargain as I demanded I needed him!!

Is this not the stuff of CUK? Am I not a hero? Is this not the day that MF, Spod et al rub their eyes in disbelief, and then begrudglingly cough, 'err, well done I spose, welcome to the real contractors league'??

:D

TestMangler
8th August 2012, 20:33
Suity, what have I been telling you for the last year or so ? You have what it takes to be a bad mofo....

You're a white Samuel L Jackson. You're a mushroom cloud laying mother######, mother###### !!

MarillionFan
8th August 2012, 20:36
The mouse who roared.

suityou01
8th August 2012, 20:44
The mouse who roared.

:laugh

Still getting pushed around by your in-laws are we? :D

EternalOptimist
8th August 2012, 20:56
jeez us h christus.


just make sure you deliver it

suityou01
8th August 2012, 20:58
jeez us h christus.


just make sure you deliver it

Safe as houses mate :D

Old Greg
8th August 2012, 20:58
Go suity!

suityou01
8th August 2012, 20:59
Go suity!

Follow Old Greg!

EternalOptimist
8th August 2012, 20:59
Safe as houses mate :D

no no no.


you brag afterwards.



and i hope to hear you brag.

Gentile
8th August 2012, 21:01
no no no.


you brag afterwards.



and i hope to hear you brag.

Did Mrs EO sort out the Surprising Button Car today?

suityou01
8th August 2012, 21:02
Did Mrs EO sort out the Surprising Button Car today?

Ahah, the code. Yes Mrs EO did sort out my, ahem, Button Car.

You still up for next Tuesday like? :D

EternalOptimist
8th August 2012, 21:06
Did Mrs EO sort out the Surprising Button Car today?

oh jesus. what a day.

not only does the bastid start the engine when you think you are checking the mileage.
but mrs EO couldnt start the engine, yet I could:eek:

turns out, you need to press the clutch (my habit) in order to start the engine
proper drivers (mrs EO) have to learn my nasty habit.


:rolleyes:

Gentile
8th August 2012, 21:19
oh jesus. what a day.

not only does the bastid start the engine when you think you are checking the mileage.
but mrs EO couldnt start the engine, yet I could:eek:

turns out, you need to press the clutch (my habit) in order to start the engine
proper drivers (mrs EO) have to learn my nasty habit.


:rolleyes:

Yep, told you. It's a good habit really, since even if you're in gear you shouldn't go anywhere. I don't like the idea of the Start Button being on the steering wheel as you described, though. Sounds too easy to turn off when you're driving on the motorway, Chris Moyles comes on the radio and in your consternation and haste to shut him up you kill the engine instead. Needs a better "UX Designer" that car. Possibly one with Photoshop skills instead of just bog-standard Paint.

escapeUK
8th August 2012, 21:22
I was always taught press the clutch, handbreak on, start the engine.

The same person taught me how to move a car that is broken down, by trying to start the engine with the clutch up and handbreak off. This is why you should always do the opposite.

EternalOptimist
8th August 2012, 21:22
Yep, told you. It's a good habit really, since even if you're in gear you shouldn't go anywhere. I don't like the idea of the Start Button being on the steering wheel as you described, though. Sounds too easy to turn off when you're driving on the motorway, Chris Moyles comes on the radio and in your consternation and haste to shut him up you kill the engine instead. Needs a better "UX Designer" that car. Possibly one with Photoshop skills instead of just bog-standard Paint.

you going on about ux's again ?


you've had a bad experience haven't you




:rolleyes:

EternalOptimist
8th August 2012, 21:23
I was always taught press the clutch, handbreak on, start the engine.

yeah , me too.

Gentile
8th August 2012, 21:23
I was always taught press the clutch, handbreak on, start the engine.

Is that a very long-winded way of saying you're being given your jotters?

NickFitz
8th August 2012, 21:24
no no no.


you brag afterwards.



and i hope to hear you brag.

WEOS :yay:

EternalOptimist
8th August 2012, 21:25
WEOS :yay:

:wink

well, he's got the makings

Gentile
8th August 2012, 21:25
you going on about ux's again ?


you've had a bad experience haven't you

Can you tell?

escapeUK
8th August 2012, 21:25
Is that a very long-winded way of saying you're being given your jotters?

I dont know what jotters is. Are you trying to break me in with Scottish words?

EternalOptimist
8th August 2012, 21:26
Can you tell?

come and sit on my knee.

Gentile
8th August 2012, 21:29
I dont know what jotters is. Are you trying to break me in with Scottish words?

Possibly. It means "sling your hook", "getting the sack", "being escorted from the building", etc.

PS: "Jotter" is a (possibly Scottish) word for a "notebook". The phrase comes from the act of clearing your desk on the last day of school term and getting your jotters to take home for good.

Gentile
8th August 2012, 21:30
come and sit on my knee.

I'm not falling for that one again.

And I'm not pulling Clippy's finger again either.

suityou01
8th August 2012, 21:30
Possibly. It means "sling your hook", "getting the sack", "being escorted from the building", etc.

PS: "Jotter" is a (possibly Scottish) word for a "notebook". The phrase comes from the act of clearing your desk on the last day of school term and getting your jotters to take home for good.

Sure, sure. But how is it atop eo's knee? :D

EternalOptimist
8th August 2012, 21:32
I'm not falling for that one again.

And I'm not pulling Clippy's finger again either.


your biggest failing, genitals, is not getting pissed at the same rate as the rest of us

by this time of the evening, you should be talking sh1te

hic



:rolleyes:

Gentile
8th August 2012, 21:33
your biggest failing, genitals, is not getting pissed at the same rate as the rest of us

by this time of the evening, you should be talking sh1te

hic

I thought I was. :confused:

escapeUK
8th August 2012, 21:34
Possibly. It means "sling your hook", "getting the sack", "being escorted from the building", etc.

PS: "Jotter" is a (possibly Scottish) word for a "notebook". The phrase comes from the act of clearing your desk on the last day of school term and getting your jotters to take home for good.

Away with ya (as my Scottish mate used to say all the time). No I just signed another extension till the end of the year.

Gentile
8th August 2012, 21:34
Sure, sure. But how is it atop eo's knee? :D

A bit moleskin-y.

eek
8th August 2012, 21:36
your biggest failing, genitals, is not getting pissed at the same rate as the rest of us

by this time of the evening, you should be talking sh1te

hic



:rolleyes:

Eek looks at last post outside general then notices total lack of alcohol in room. Heads to bed as cannot contemplate trying to catch up.

Night all

Gentile
8th August 2012, 21:37
Away with ya (as my Scottish mate used to say all the time). No I just signed another extension till the end of the year.

No, your Scottish mate would say "Away wi ye". Congratuations on the XN*, though.






* I think I'll start doing that 'X' thing with everything to make it sound more technical.

EternalOptimist
8th August 2012, 21:39
Eek looks at last post outside general then notices total lack of alcohol in room. Heads to bed as cannot contemplate trying to catch up.

Night all

nighty night

escapeUK
8th August 2012, 21:42
No, your Scottish mate would say "Away wi ye". Congratuations on the XN*, though.


Thank you canny lass. (I always thought that was Scottish) its Northern lol :)

I just realised the furthest north I've ever been is York :)

suityou01
8th August 2012, 21:56
No, your Scottish mate would say "Away wi ye". Congratuations on the XN*, though.






* I think I'll start doing that 'X' thing with everything to make it sound more technical.

Suity's guide to heathen speak

I say, this really is not on! = away tae ****
Could anyone recommend where I could get a good meal round these parts? = chuppie's doon there mate
Terrible all this rangers lark = headbutt

:D

escapeUK
8th August 2012, 22:02
Scottish Phrases and Common Sentences (http://www.linguanaut.com/english_scots.htm)

I like this one:-

I feel sick. A feel no weel.

Gentile
8th August 2012, 22:03
Suity's guide to heathen speak

I say, this really is not on! = away tae ****
Could anyone recommend where I could get a good meal round these parts? = chuppie's doon there mate
Terrible all this rangers lark = headbutt

:D

Very accurate. On the Rangers thing, it's a touchy subject for half of Glasgow, and a reason for celebration for the other half. Some taxi driver was on the radio the other day relating a story of two American tourists that thought it would be a great lark to buy full Rangers kits in honour of their favourite hockey team, and wear them into town. When they got into his taxi in full kit and asked how much it was to Argyll Street, the taxi driver said "Wid it no be quicker jist tae take ye straight the Western Infirmary?".

SimonMac
8th August 2012, 22:13
Does anyone else think its funny that Suitys will waving I am the big I am thread was so quickly taken off topic and way from him being the center of attention :laugh

Well done mate, we might just make a contractor out of you after all!

suityou01
8th August 2012, 22:39
Does anyone else think its funny that Suitys will waving I am the big I am thread was so quickly taken off topic and way from him being the center of attention :laugh

Well done mate, we might just make a contractor out of you after all!

Well not really. If you want to come it I'll just pump you full of coffee, let you bounce off the walls for a bit then let you sit on eo's knee while genitals reels of Scottish colloquiasms. Then again this sounds like your ideal Friday night. :rolleyes:

aussielong
9th August 2012, 05:56
OK this actually happened. Today. I did this. Yes me. Suity.

The SAP implementation programme I am currently delivering a project for has hit a snag. That snag is data migration. Too little credence, too late despite the warnings. So it's iceberg time.

I was summoned to the SAP team meeting to explain how we weren't going to deliver the migration on time. Dreading it if truth be told, and I wanted to hand the towel in weeks ago, but chose to stay and fight.

So the meeting started, and suity is on the ropes. Accusations, blame, getting nasty. I am in there with my PM, who is doing his best to defend the situation. They're not listening. Their programme is going off piste anyways and we are the perfect scapegoat, even if we delivered the migration on time they would still fail to hit deadline but this is hushed up, super political.

Was I cacking it? No. Was I rising to the bait? No. Did I hear them all out calmly before returning salvo? Too right I fecking did.

20 minutes of laying it on the line, calmly but firmly. Explaining that some of the requirements were unachievable, too esoteric and not needed. Advising on business contingency, workarounds, likely scenarios the whole ball of wax.

The return salvo was from the head of IT, who kept on saying "I just don't see why it's this difficult?". The sucker punch from suity was then delivered, apparently I raised my voice several decibels and thrust a finger in his face saying "don't get complacent!" and he backed right down.

Got an extension to 1st November, and the team I asked for!!! The Bob's don't get this one, I do, and I managed to get another contractor an extension into the bargain as I demanded I needed him!!

Is this not the stuff of CUK? Am I not a hero? Is this not the day that MF, Spod et al rub their eyes in disbelief, and then begrudglingly cough, 'err, well done I spose, welcome to the real contractors league'??

:D

Data Migration is nothing to get excited about. That *is* usually done by Bobs from what I see.
How is it hard? Understand the data model on the left, understand the one on the right (you probably have guidance from an SME for this anyway), extract, transform and load. Just make sure you have several dry runs of the migration leading up to production migration. And sort out your reconciliation process. It's not rocket science is it.

eek
9th August 2012, 06:24
Data Migration is nothing to get excited about. That *is* usually done by Bobs from what I see.
How is it hard? Understand the data model on the left, understand the one on the right (you probably have guidance from an SME for this anyway), extract, transform and load. Just make sure you have several dry runs of the migration leading up to production migration. And sort out your reconciliation process. It's not rocket science is it.

Its not rocket science but it requires attention to detail and documented data schemas on both sides of the system. Granted Bob may be able to do it but unless its all documented its a world of pain mainly because people don't realise how complex it may be and the consequences of what happens if it goes wrong.

MarillionFan
9th August 2012, 06:27
Its not rocket science but it requires attention to detail and documented data schemas on both sides of the system. Granted Bob may be able to do it but unless its all documented its a world of pain mainly because people don't realise how complex it may be and the consequences of what happens if it goes wrong.

Data migration is a piece of piss. Of course every system I've ever seen that has moved it's data has made it useless for reporting or business intelligence, but then again what the **** does anyone in IT know about adding value to data. :eyes

aussielong
9th August 2012, 06:31
Its not rocket science but it requires attention to detail and documented data schemas on both sides of the system. Granted Bob may be able to do it but unless its all documented its a world of pain mainly because people don't realise how complex it may be and the consequences of what happens if it goes wrong.

That's why you usually have an SME involved for nontrivial schemas, that knows the data inside out. Not worth getting a techie who is new to the systems to grasp a number of large data models quickly. You'd only have a techie doing it all for a trivial migration.

mudskipper
9th August 2012, 06:31
Its not rocket science but it requires attention to detail and documented data schemas on both sides of the system. Granted Bob may be able to do it but unless its all documented its a world of pain mainly because people don't realise how complex it may be and the consequences of what happens if it goes wrong.

And if you're migrating secure data such as passwords or credit card numbers, you've got encryption etc to worry about too.

Address data can be its own special brand of fun.

Freamon
9th August 2012, 06:32
That's why you usually have an SME involved for nontrivial schemas, that knows the data inside out. Not worth getting a techie who is new to the systems to grasp a number of large data models quickly. You'd only have a techie doing it all for a trivial migration.

Which is fine, unless all the permies that understood the source schema have left.

Which they usually have.

aussielong
9th August 2012, 06:35
Which is fine, unless all the permies that understood the source schema have left.

Which they usually have.

You get the business to guide you through the data model, not techies. Business people tend to stick around longer in organisations , perhaps because their knowledge is less transferrable.

aussielong
9th August 2012, 06:37
And if you're migrating secure data such as passwords or credit card numbers, you've got encryption etc to worry about too.

Good point.

MarillionFan
9th August 2012, 06:47
You get the business to guide you through the data model, not techies. Business people tend to stick around longer in organisations , perhaps because their knowledge is less transferrable.

WHS

And that's the Bob proof skill. Don't sit in IT. Sit in the business with IT skills, delivering to the business and explaining to the dullard IT Techies or Bobs how to do it.

Works for me. Kerchiiiiiing. :smokin

aussielong
9th August 2012, 06:50
Rama Chemudupati, explains his specific experiences on a recent SAP data migration project.

SAP Data Migration (http://www.insiderlearningnetwork.com/scottpriest/blog/2011/11/04/how_to_involve_smes_and_business_reps_in_a_data_mi gration_project)

This is one of his "Key Concepts" that must be grasped to be successful:

Identifying and involving the right resources and clearly defining their roles and responsibilities can help you achieve significant success in a data migration project. Over- defining roles can mean blurring the responsibilities. Under-defining the roles can affect the migration timelines and deliverables. Involving business representatives in your migration process and ensuring their availability at various stages along the process also factor into this role definition.

eek
9th August 2012, 06:52
And if you're migrating secure data such as passwords or credit card numbers, you've got encryption etc to worry about too.

Address data can be its own special brand of fun.

My favourite one was the promise to the head of marketing - Don't worry about the 5 years of crap data people have been entering the data migration will fix that. Someone promised as the justification of the migration that the migration would fix the missing first names, surnames and email addresses that sales people hadn't been bothered to find out over 10 years.

I provided two options:-

1) your current dataset with all the crap
2) a probably valid complete dataset (with only 8% of the original data). Needless to say neither option was acceptable outside of IT.

MarillionFan
9th August 2012, 06:58
My favourite one was the promise to the head of marketing - Don't worry about the 5 years of crap data people have been entering the data migration will fix that. Someone promised as the justification of the migration that the migration would fix the missing first names, surnames and email addresses that sales people hadn't been bothered to find out over 10 years.

I provided two options:-

1) your current dataset with all the crap
2) a probably valid complete dataset (with only 8% of the original data). Needless to say neither option was acceptable outside of IT.

I've just had clientco purchase me a DNB license with 250,000 downloads and 15000 credits for data cleanup.

Interestingly, I provided a sample of around 300 records to do some data matching to DNB. I checked the data, but didn't manipulate hugely. The results came back at a disapointing 60% match rate with a 5% error.

I then knocked up a simple Excel function using the Google Maps Web service. I then ran the address data through that, which returned a full address string, where I sent that off to DNB for matching with company info.

It came back with a 97% match rate, with a 3% error. The next phase is to merge contact data, and the first pass I have highlighted 30% (approximately 15000) records to remove. That Mickey Mouse fella must get an awful amount of spam.:D

eek
9th August 2012, 07:08
I've just had clientco purchase me a DNB license with 250,000 downloads and 15000 credits for data cleanup.

Interestingly, I provided a sample of around 300 records to do some data matching to DNB. I checked the data, but didn't manipulate hugely. The results came back at a disapointing 60% match rate with a 5% error.

I then knocked up a simple Excel function using the Google Maps Web service. I then ran the address data through that, which returned a full address string, where I sent that off to DNB for matching with company info.

It came back with a 97% match rate, with a 3% error. The next phase is to merge contact data, and the first pass I have highlighted 30% (approximately 15000) records to remove. That Mickey Mouse fella must get an awful amount of spam.:D

In that case at least you have a chance of matching the data. If however the record is firstname Mark surname blank email blank you really haven't got a pray.

aussielong
9th August 2012, 07:18
My favourite one was the promise to the head of marketing - Don't worry about the 5 years of crap data people have been entering the data migration will fix that. Someone promised as the justification of the migration that the migration would fix the missing first names, surnames and email addresses that sales people hadn't been bothered to find out over 10 years.

I provided two options:-

1) your current dataset with all the crap
2) a probably valid complete dataset (with only 8% of the original data). Needless to say neither option was acceptable outside of IT.

Reconciliation between source and target would be a nightmare if you tried cleaning up the data on the fly as you load it in to the target system.

I wouldn't do these projects. It is truly soul destroying work.

suityou01
9th August 2012, 20:19
Data Migration is nothing to get excited about. That *is* usually done by Bobs from what I see.
How is it hard? Understand the data model on the left, understand the one on the right (you probably have guidance from an SME for this anyway), extract, transform and load. Just make sure you have several dry runs of the migration leading up to production migration. And sort out your reconciliation process. It's not rocket science is it.

Quality bellendry there mate, well done. Data migration is not rocket science, it is dirty, ball aching and fecking tedious. Managing the migration is hard. Setting expectations, gathering and baselining requirements, pushing back on bullshit requirements, wiping the techies noses, motivating, bargaining, chasing, harrasing and reporting progress.

That and we have no time to do requirements definition up front so I've turned the whole thing into agile sprints, which will be a first for me, delivering a data migration in an agile way.

Freamon
9th August 2012, 21:48
You get the business to guide you through the data model, not techies. Business people tend to stick around longer in organisations , perhaps because their knowledge is less transferrable.

Business people who understand their data? Sounds ideal, but you won't find any of them in a lot of organisations.

aussielong
9th August 2012, 21:59
Quality bellendry there mate, well done. Data migration is not rocket science, it is dirty, ball aching and fecking tedious. Managing the migration is hard. Setting expectations, gathering and baselining requirements, pushing back on bulltulip requirements, wiping the techies noses, motivating, bargaining, chasing, harrasing and reporting progress.

That and we have no time to do requirements definition up front so I've turned the whole thing into agile sprints, which will be a first for me, delivering a data migration in an agile way.

Jesus, you don't half make a mountain out of a molehill.

suityou01
9th August 2012, 22:07
Jesus, you don't half make a mountain out of a molehill.

2/10

MarillionFan
9th August 2012, 22:58
Jesus, you don't half make a mountain out of a molehill.

He makes a molehill out of a molehill then shouts mountain. :eyes

suityou01
10th August 2012, 05:15
He makes a molehill out of a molehill then shouts mountain. :eyes

6/10 :yay:

aussielong
10th August 2012, 05:27
Quality bellendry there mate, well done. Data migration is not rocket science, it is dirty, ball aching and fecking tedious. Managing the migration is hard. Setting expectations, gathering and baselining requirements, pushing back on bulltulip requirements, wiping the techies noses, motivating, bargaining, chasing, harrasing and reporting progress.

That and we have no time to do requirements definition up front so I've turned the whole thing into agile sprints, which will be a first for me, delivering a data migration in an agile way.




Suity (internal dialogue): Man this migration is dirty, ball aching stuff. Man this data is hard to migrate.

Suity (wiping forehead and looking up at the *sun): I just gotta ... I just gotta map this field ... just gotta keep it together for one more day.

Suity: Hey Bob, why is production down?! Quick, lets have a standup to discuss.

Bob: Well I did what you asked for, I mapped the test case into the production scenario

Suity (scratches head): What do you mean you've used my User ID to load test data into production?

Door swings behind him as Suity hits the street again. On to the next data mapping gig. It's dirty work, but someones gotta do it.


* battered fluoro light on some trading estate on the outskirts of Slough

NotAllThere
10th August 2012, 05:28
Data Migration is nothing to get excited about. That *is* usually done by Bobs from what I see.
How is it hard? Understand the data model on the left, understand the one on the right (you probably have guidance from an SME for this anyway), extract, transform and load. Just make sure you have several dry runs of the migration leading up to production migration. And sort out your reconciliation process. It's not rocket science is it.

I've been involved in SAP implementations for years - since 1997 :ohwell. Never yet seen one that was derailed because of data migration. Obviously, SY01's got no-one on his project with SAP migration experience, or he wouldn't have got away with it.

Btw, sometimes the most cost-effective and quickest method is to hire a couple of data entry clerks and get them to type the data in.

Pondlife
10th August 2012, 07:09
I've been involved in SAP implementations for years - since 1997 :ohwell. Never yet seen one that was derailed because of data migration. Obviously, SY01's got no-one on his project with SAP migration experience, or he wouldn't have got away with it.


This



Btw, sometimes the most cost-effective and quickest method is to hire a couple of data entry clerks and get them to type the data in.

and that.


The source data is always a mess and invariably requires someone from the business who understands it to sort it out. Techy solutions will only get you so far.