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ffs: Guantanamo suicides 'acts of war'

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    ffs: Guantanamo suicides 'acts of war'

    Guantanamo suicides 'acts of war'
    A watchtower at the US base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba

    These are the first suicides at the base, despite dozens of attempts

    The suicides of three detainees at the US base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, amount to acts of war, the US military says.

    The camp commander said the two Saudis and a Yemeni were "committed" and had killed themselves in "an act of asymmetric warfare waged against us".

    Lawyers said the men who hanged themselves had been driven by despair.

    A military investigation into the deaths is now under way, amid growing calls for the detention centre to be moved or closed.

    Walter White, an international lawyer who specialises in human rights, told the BBC the Guantanamo camp was likely to be considered a "great stain" on the human rights record of the US.

    There have been dozens of suicide attempts since the camp was set up four years ago - but none successful until now.

    The men were found unresponsive and not breathing by guards on Saturday morning, said officials.

    They were in separate cells in Camp One, the highest security section of the prison.

    I believe this was not an act of desperation, but an act of warfare waged against us. Rear Adm Harry Harris. Camp commander

    They hanged themselves with clothing and bed sheets, camp commander Rear Adm Harry Harris said.

    He said medical teams had tried to revive the men, but all three were pronounced dead.

    'Creative'

    Rear Adm Harris said he did not believe the men had killed themselves out of despair.

    "They are smart. They are creative, they are committed," he said.

    "They have no regard for life, either ours or their own. I believe this was not an act of desperation, but an act of asymmetrical warfare waged against us."

    If it's perfectly legal and there's nothing going wrong there - well, why don't they have it in America? Harriet Harman UK Constitutional Affairs Minister

    All three men had previously taken part in some of the mass on-and-off hunger strikes undertaken by detainees since last August, and all three had been force-fed by camp authorities.

    They had left suicide notes, but no details have been made available.

    The US military said the men's bodies were being treated "with the utmost respect".

    White House spokesman Tony Snow said Mr Bush had "expressed serious concern" at the deaths.

    "He also stressed that it was important to treat the bodies humanely and with cultural sensitivity," he said.

    A spokesman for UK Prime Minister Tony Blair described the suicide as a "sad incident".

    'Heroes'

    UK Constitutional Affairs Minister Harriet Harman told the BBC on Sunday the camp should be moved to the US or shut down.

    "If it's perfectly legal and there's nothing going wrong there - well, why don't they have it in America and then the American court system can supervise it?" she said.

    William Goodman from the New York-based Center for Constitutional Rights told AFP news agency the three dead men were "heroes for those of us who believe in basic American values of justice, fairness and democracy".

    Mr Goodman, whose organisation represents some 300 detainees, said the government had denied them that.

    Ken Roth, head of Human Rights Watch in New York, told the BBC the men had probably been driven by despair.

    "These people are despairing because they are being held lawlessly," he said.

    "There's no end in sight. They're not being brought before any independent judges. They're not being charged and convicted for any crime."

    On Friday, Mr Bush said he would "like to end Guantanamo", adding he believed the inmates "ought to be tried in courts here in the United States".

    ---------

    Get this - you get detained without trial and laywers for like 4 years, decide to kill yourself and then its called "act of war"? So, if its "act of war", then those guys ought to be POWs and since war in Afganistan where they were camptured is now over it means that they should be released just like German POWs were released apart from select few who were tried by International court for crimes against humanity.

    I really wonder if US administration now consists of just idiots - even if they were 100% right about how dangerous these people are, then the kind of bad publicity US continues to get makes the whole thing extremely negative, far more than airstrikes on houses with innocent people because at least those can be branded as honest mistakes.

    Its real pity to see how USA is staining its own image for no good reason.
    Last edited by AtW; 11 June 2006, 10:55.

    #2
    Agree generally, although some would argue that the war in this case is not over, only a particular battle and it's a valid point.

    However, I am pretty sure that these detentions have done far more harm than good to waging of the "war on terror" as they have reduced the degree of cooperation that the US would have had without them.
    bloggoth

    If everything isn't black and white, I say, 'Why the hell not?'
    John Wayne (My guru, not to be confused with my beloved prophet Jeremy Clarkson)

    Comment


      #3
      Interesting survey in the paper earlier in the week. The great majority of Britains, although they still like Americans as people, have swung very much against America as a nation and do not see it as a force for good. Quite an acheivement by Bush to lose the goodwill of America's staunchest allies.

      More now see our future as tied to Europe's. May the pro-European HWMDS is not so daft after all and it was all part of his cunning plan.
      bloggoth

      If everything isn't black and white, I say, 'Why the hell not?'
      John Wayne (My guru, not to be confused with my beloved prophet Jeremy Clarkson)

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by xoggoth
        Quite an acheivement by Bush to lose the goodwill of America's staunchest allies.
        Exactly. Even if they were 100% correct about how bad people in XRay are, then the kind of price that US pays in terms of tarnished image is certainly not worth it: finger print those guys, take DNA let them go somewhere in Afganistan, if they are that bad then they would take gun and get killed in action which is fair play and no adverse effect in terms of bad PR.

        Comment


          #5
          ... do you mean they should follow the example of Russia in Afghanistan and Chechnya....?
          Vieze Oude Man

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by mcquiggd
            ... do you mean they should follow the example of Russia in Afghanistan and Chechnya....?
            No they should not because Russian's way was (in Afganistan) and is (in Chechnya) leading to failure, something that is happening again in Iraq and to lesser extent again in Afganistan.

            But even if USA failed in Afganistan and Iraq it would have far less drastic consequences then current bad view of USA even among its allies in the West - if the allies are so skeptical what can you expect from the enemy?

            Image is everything, for that alone it is worth closing XRay immediately.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by AtW
              Image is everything, for that alone it is worth closing XRay immediately.
              What would they do with the detainees, immediately?

              Comment


                #8
                America will pay

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by mcquiggd
                  ... do you mean they should follow the example of Russia in Afghanistan and Chechnya....?
                  I reckon that Putin could not have believed his luck when President Bozo decreed that he would stand by Putin in his war on terror in Chechnya. Strange how so many disparate things get conflated in one big idea. But than again so many groups took advantage of Bozo's stupidity to get their wars of occupation rebranded as an American voter friendly war on terror.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by xoggoth
                    Interesting survey in the paper earlier in the week. The great majority of Britains, although they still like Americans as people, have swung very much against America as a nation and do not see it as a force for good. Quite an acheivement by Bush to lose the goodwill of America's staunchest allies.
                    I think Guantanamo Bay has been an own goal by America. Osama bin Laden must have been running his hands with glee when he heard about it. It is after all symbolic of how America views foreigners, namely that they don't give a tulip about human rights if your skin colour is suspiciously dark. The sad thing is that some of the inmates probably are dangerous fanatics.

                    Comment

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