Does agile make you uncomfortable?

[yetanotherbob]

I like the principle of it - just makes me worry about the perception of 'part and parcel' of client org.
And the idea that you learn about what you're doing next in the 'team' scrum...

Although in practice I work at a client to deliver a service the permies can't or don't have the skill set for - so I couldn't possibly be 'doing the same job as the permies'.

One practical way I see is if you undertake every piece of work utilising a specific skill/technology or a specific module that no permie would touch - but this again goes against some agile ethos ...

Thoughts?

[Gentile]

Does agile make you uncomfortable?

No. Though I've never seen it done the same way twice. All organisations seem to use the same terminology to mean different things. For some, "Agile" = "micromanagement". I tend not to stay around those sort of places long enough for it to be an issue.

e.g., one IB I know used to have a development manager sitting down at a desk in a side room first thing each and every day, whilst everyone else was expected to stand. He'd go round the room of twenty or so developers and ask them to explain what they were doing in minute detail and why. Said dev manager would then make grossly-uninformed "suggestions" as to how each person should go about doing their jobs that day.

The permies hated it. So did I. I stayed a week, then found a client for whom Agile instead meant "liaise with the end user little and often, and take their input as to the end result required as the product is being developed, but how you do what you do is up to you; invoice us when you're done". That's the way most of my gigs have worked in practice.

[yetanotherbob]

The permies hated it. So did I. I stayed a week, then found a client for whom Agile instead meant "liaise with the end user little and often, and take their input as to the end result required as the product is being developed, but how you do what you do is up to you; invoice us when you're done". That's the way most of my gigs have worked in practice.

At a recent gig I was the only one developing a new application on a technology new to the client. I started introducing elements of 'agile' as I really needed end-user feedback on incremental changes I made to the application.
Towards the end of it the permies had set up the whole, what they thought was agile, process and there were cards flying all over with items like 'code this as per spec'; 'test this' while they caught on with the technology. But that's when it started worrying me about the 'part and parcel of client org' perception..

[Gentile]

At a recent gig I was the only one developing a new application on a technology new to the client. I started introducing elements of 'agile' as I really needed end-user feedback on incremental changes I made to the application.
Towards the end of it the permies had set up the whole, what they thought was agile, process and there were cards flying all over with items like 'code this as per spec'; 'test this' while they caught on with the technology. But that's when it started worrying me about the 'part and parcel of client org' perception..

You could argue the same about a chef in a restaurant. You tell them exactly what meals you want made for you and when. But as long as you don't expect to tell them how to cook it as well or which choices to put on the menu, there's no risk of them or anyone else that is part of the process appearing to be a diner's employee.

Same with Agile: if you're working as part of a large team delivering discrete elements of functionality, it's fine for the work to be organised into Stacks and Sprints, for Work Items and Bugs to be assigned to people, and to have Scrums at regular intervals to get feedback and provide advice on what needs built. As long as you don't expect your contractors to take direction from you as to how they satisfy the Work Items / Bugs you ask them to address, and you don't expect them to work on any project not specified in their contract schedule, that's not exercising D&C, that's ordering lunch.

[SupremeSpod]

You could argue the same about a chef in a restaurant. You tell them exactly what meals you want made for you and when. But as long as you don't expect to tell them how to cook it as well or which choices to put on the menu, there's no risk of them or anyone else that is part of the process appearing to be a diner's employee.

Same with Agile: if you're working as part of a large team delivering discrete elements of functionality, it's fine for the work to be organised into Stacks and Sprints, for Work Items and Bugs to be assigned to people, and to have Scrums at regular intervals to get feedback and provide advice on what needs built. As long as you don't expect your contractors to take direction from you as to how they satisfy the Work Items / Bugs you ask them to address, and you don't expect them to work on any project not specified in their contract schedule, that's not exercising D&C, that's ordering lunch.

Sorry love, reality check.

If I'm paying the bill you do it my way.

[Gentile]

Sorry love, reality check.

If I'm paying the bill you do it my way.

Fortunately, you're not paying any of the bills I send, and are never likely to be.

[SupremeSpod]

Fortunately, you're not paying any of the bills I send, and are never likely to be.

Damn right.

Gobby know ****-alls like you are ten-a-penny, fortunately I can sniff you out before you even get to interview stage.

[Gentile]

Damn right.

Gobby know ****-alls like you are ten-a-penny, fortunately I can sniff you out before you even get to interview stage.

You have a nice day now, Spod.

Better luck getting a rise out of the next person gullible enough to give one of your delusional brainfarts the time of day.

[SupremeSpod]

You have a nice day now, Spod.

Better luck getting a rise out of the next person gullible enough to give one of your delusional brainfarts the time of day.

Too late love, you're hooked and you know it.

[aussielong]

You have a nice day now, Spod.

Better luck getting a rise out of the next person gullible enough to give one of your delusional brainfarts the time of day.

Why would a permie hang around on a contractor site trying to wind up contractors? It's because he sits around contractors who do the interesting work, get paid a lot more than him and then f**k off and leave him to pick up the mess. He's a bitter an twisted individual.