Have been offered an NHS role but offered an extension in current private sector role

[Sausage Surprise]

The NHS role pays an extra £65 a day but the possible threat of all public sector roles being deemed as PAYE is throwing a spanner in the works.
I'm happy in my current role but the extra cash will come in handy for the next 6 - 12 months.

Anyone got any views on how likely it is that compulsory "caught IR35" will filter down to the NHS?

[northernladuk]

Well this goes live later this month (Sept) and I imagine like anything to do with HMRC and/or public sector it will be a complete disaster. Either way, NHS is public sector so you have to assume it will hit.. NHS particularly has been mentioned in a few articles so wouldn't be a bad bet it is the first place they will start...

This article talks about senior managers running PSC in Dept of Health so they are on the radar..

IR35 Healthy in NHS - Contractor Weekly

This one specifically names NHS Trusts as part of the target groups..

Enforced IR35 for Civil Service Contractors - Contractor Weekly

These hurried plans, which are due to come into play on 15th September 2012, follow the 'Review of the tax arrangements of public sector appointees' in May of this year after it emerged that over 2,400 engagements in central government departments and their arms length bodies (including NHS Trusts) involved off payroll arrangements

I would most definately avoiding any engagement with a public sector around this time until the dust settles. I don't want to be around when this whole process starts misfiring spectacularly.

[Notascooby]

you should have 6 months of this...if you're happy with taking a 6 month contract and possibly leaving after this time (although there may be a glut of others doing the same) then go for it.

[Sausage Surprise]

Nice one NLUK - just the sort of reply I was looking for. Cheers..

[speling bee]

Well this goes live later this month (Sept) and I imagine like anything to do with HMRC and/or public sector it will be a complete disaster. Either way, NHS is public sector so you have to assume it will hit.. NHS particularly has been mentioned in a few articles so wouldn't be a bad bet it is the first place they will start...

This article talks about senior managers running PSC in Dept of Health so they are on the radar..

IR35 Healthy in NHS - Contractor Weekly

This one specifically names NHS Trusts as part of the target groups..

Enforced IR35 for Civil Service Contractors - Contractor Weekly



I would most definately avoiding any engagement with a public sector around this time until the dust settles. I don't want to be around when this whole process starts misfiring spectacularly.

The article (not the title) is about DH, not NHS. NHS is not government or civil service. It is public sector and we need to see how the new rules pan out. If it is a contract with a foundation trust in particular, it is hard to see how the government can enforce it.

[northernladuk]

The article (not the title) is about DH, not NHS. NHS is not government or civil service. It is public sector and we need to see how the new rules pan out. If it is a contract with a foundation trust in particular, it is hard to see how the government can enforce it.

Ahhh...Indeed but was just trying to show show that health hadn't fallen of the radar. Right approach but wrong information I guess. I should have added I don't know the relationship but the second article does mention 'arms length bodies inc NHS trusts' so can't believe it will escape scrutiny. If or how they can enforce it I don't know and tbh I don't really care as the whole situation has scared me off the NHS route which I think the OP was trying to make a decision on.

As you say my research doesn't seem as good as I intended. Maybe I should have put a comment around 'with all this going on I am out (IMHO)'

[Sausage Surprise]

The article (not the title) is about DH, not NHS. NHS is not government or civil service. It is public sector and we need to see how the new rules pan out. If it is a contract with a foundation trust in particular, it is hard to see how the government can enforce it.

Connecting for Health ???

[northernladuk]

Here is another article titled 'IT contractors in the NHS “unlikely to trigger” off-payroll or IR35 rules' written by the director of Max20 so if he is wading in then they must think it is going to hit.

I must admit though I am not conviced by the article. Something about it reads more like sales speil or someone that is trying to protect their business model rather than a unbiased article. The director of the company supplying contractors to the NHS isn't going to be downbeat about. Read in to it what you will ofc.

The fact he thinks they are 'unlikely to' doesn't fill me with confidence..

<snip>

[speling bee]

Ahhh...Indeed but was just trying to show show that health hadn't fallen of the radar. Right approach but wrong information I guess. I should have added I don't know the relationship but the second article does mention 'arms length bodies inc NHS trusts' so can't believe it will escape scrutiny. If or how they can enforce it I don't know and tbh I don't really care as the whole situation has scared me off the NHS route which I think the OP was trying to make a decision on.

As you say my research doesn't seem as good as I intended. Maybe I should have put a comment around 'with all this going on I am out (IMHO)'

A very small number of national NHS organisations are arms length bodies and may be hit. Watch out if anyone is still working for NHS Connecting for Health.

Other NHS trusts are more independent of government. Non-foundation trusts may fall into line, but I do not expect they will be first targets (I have no inside knowledge BTW), simply because the government threat to cut their funding is unenforceable - government does not fund them, commissioning bodies do, and the upheaval with commissioning bodies, PCTs disappearing to be replaced by CCGs, will make it difficult for government to enforce this on CCGs, when the rationale behind CCGs is to give them independence. Foundation trusts would, I imagine, tell government to go whistle, rather than adopt a commercial policy that would harm their competitive position.

To the OP, if it is a foundation trust, my evaluation is that you are probably safe for a while. If a national body, then the risk is substantially higher. Anything else and you are in between.

The magic bullet way of cutting through this would be to change the terms on the national frameworks / catalogues which have the agencies on. But this would not be a quick option.

Edit: the second article talks about civil service, NHS is not civil service. The reference to NHS is: 'Review of the tax arrangements of public sector appointees' in May of this year after it emerged that over 2,400 engagements in central government departments and their arms length bodies (including NHS Trusts) involved off payroll arrangements.' There are about 200 acute providers (trusts and boards) alone, as well as mental health trusts, community trusts, PCTs, SHAs etc. etc. I doubt the 2400 covers them, just the arms length bodies. These are the arms length bodies:


NHS Business Services Authority

The main processing facility and centre of excellence for payment, reimbursement, remuneration and reconciliation for NHS patients, employees and affiliated parties. As of April 2006, it performs the functions previously carried out by the Dental Practice Board, NHS Counter Fraud and Security Management Service, NHS Pensions Agency, NHS Logistics Authority and Prescriptions Pricing Authority.

ALB Review proposal: Retain in short term, and commission commercial review to identify potential for increased commercial opportunities, including potential to remove functions from the ALB sector.


NHS Business Services Authority (opens new window)


Information Centre for health and social care

The Information Centre for health and social care works to coordinate and streamline the collection and sharing of data about health and adult social care.

ALB Review proposal: Retain, and put on a firmer statutory footing by establishing it in primary legislation. National repository for data collection across health care, public health and adult social care. Clearer focus on data collection, with a close working relationship with the NHS Commissioning Board.


Information Centre for health and social care (opens new window)


NHS Appointments Commission (NHSAC)

Appoints all chair and non-executive appointments to NHS trusts, primary care trusts (PCTs) and strategic health authorities (SHAs), and other bodies as delegated by the Secretary of State. It makes up to 1,500 appointments annually.

ALB Review proposal: Abolish as an ALB during 2012 in view of the very substantial reduction in the number of appointments required. Move remaining appointments to the Department of Health.


Appointments Commission (opens new window)


NHS Blood and Transplant

NHS Blood and Transplant replaced the National Blood Authority and UK Transplant in October 2005. It promotes the donation of blood and organs, co-ordinate a 24-hour organ matching and allocation service, and arrange and keep track of the collection, preparation and distribution of blood.

ALB Review proposal: Retain, and commission an in-depth review of opportunities to make more commercially effective. Transfer Bio-Products Laboratory out of NHSBT into a Department of Health owned company.


NHS Blood and Transplant (opens new window)


NHS Institute for Innovation and Improvement

The NHS Institute will work at national level to integrate, promote and support innovation, learning, leadership and improvement in the NHS. Its focus will be on achieving practical outcomes that help the health service deliver better quality and more effective patient care.

ALB Review proposal: Remove from ALB sector. Move functions which will support the NHS Commissioning Board in leading for quality improvement to the Board. Review the potential for its remaining functions to be delivered through alternative commercial delivery models.


NHS Institute for Innovation and Improvement (opens new window)


NHS Litigation Authority (NHSLA)

Administers schemes under which NHS bodies pool their clinical negligence liabilities. It also promotes the highest possible standards of patient care and recommends changes to the Secretary of State that may be needed.

ALB Review proposal: Retain, and commission an industry review to identify potential opportunities for greater commercial involvement.


NHS Litigation Authority (opens new window)

[speling bee]

Connecting for Health ???

Civil Service, not part of the NHS (it used to be).

NHS Connecting for Health (NHS CFH) is part of the Department of Health Informatics Directorate.



I would be worried on this one.