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PCG News on gov contracts - Will the government ever **** off and leave me alone?

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    PCG News on gov contracts - Will the government ever **** off and leave me alone?

    Public Sector Review

    I’m getting more and more annoyed at the way the government keep introducing more and more guidelines in an effort to bring people under the auspices of “Disguised employment”. I am sorely tempted to start coming to work in Groucho glasses and a moustache and say, “**** me”, your right. You win. Here, you have some employers and employees NI off me! Actually I’m more tempted to walk away from contracting and withdraw my skills from the market. I’m just sick of it all.

    Since I started contracting I’ve been sure that I’m outside IR35, I started my business as a contractor so I could save up a company reserve and then expand it to do what I’ve always wanted – nothing to do with IT contracting. Just the same as BP can start a solar business from their profits on oil extraction without being told to give all the money they made from selling oil to their employees as salary I expect the same privileges as a company director – who happened to currently make money from working on client sites helping them with their IT systems on a project basis, or to help them through a staffing shortfall until they can back fill me.

    What sort of facist government dictates we should pay employee taxes, but doesn’t give us employee contracts! That is what makes me most sick. If I am an employee of the government – then they should ******* issue me a temporary contract of employment. They can stick me on their head count and explain to the public why their staff numbers have suddenly gone up 25%. If they want to terminate my contract early they can pay me redundancy, If I get a stomach bug I’ll take the day off (or several actually like most bobs do) and I’ll enjoy some of the 5-6 weeks leave. And when my mrs pops I’ll take 2 weeks off. But nope. As it is I get none of that but they want the tax off me. Oh, and my boss has become a bully – so I want to take her to a tribunal. There’s an interesting test for someone! Can a contractor – whos a disguised employee inside IR35 sue the works bully!? I bet not, the defence lawyers fisrt line of defence will be — but your honour this person is not an employee – where is their contract of employment – case dimissed.

    I have learned it doesn’t matter who you vote for, because the elected members aren’t in control of tax collection, it is the civil servants who are envious of you ability to go out, work for yourselves and make more money than they do. The staff at HMRC refer to us all as “lying cheating bastards”…. Their pet internal name for people who run businesses or are self employed. Their attitude is that everyone who works for themselves is on the take and just hasn’t been caught yet. They might have had an internal culture change to refer to us as “customers”, but the reality is they are just seeking to extract as much cash as they can “yield” for the minimum effort. There are only so many tax inspectors to go round everything from the like of Tescos to Taxi drivers, so somewhere in the middle is contractors. Unfortunately as a typical contractor earns a lot more than a taxi driver then we’re of more potential interest. Tesco’s pay their tax by negotiation – they have about 200 accountants working on tax, but HMRC have 2 or 3. The result is they pay something like 2-3% by using bullyboy tactics such as “we’ll move this part of the business offshore”

    Is any of this new “guidance” such as the business entity test, and the treasury policy on £220/day for 6 months legal? Could I not as a citizen come up with a much simpler policy as guidance for all government departments that says something like “Show me the relevant section in the statue book that says as a company you have to pay employees and employers national insurance on profits (not even withdrawals did you notice).

    I know this is futile – and my best option is to leave the country for somewhere warmer with a simpler fairer tax system, but I hadn’t planned on doing that for another 6-8 years. I've already got land overseas in 2 countries and could work in the UK for 3 months a year to fund a lifesyle over there. Ok, they're devleoping countries - but you'd be supirsed these days what a bit of cash can do over there - especially when average salaires are £50/month! I.e you can hire a cook, cleaner, and security guard (pay a bit extra as a bonus) and be happy knowing you are spreading your wealth to those that need it most. Unlike the parasites in this country.

    What I really want is the end of NI, a generous tax free allowance and then a flat rate tax for all earnings that is low enough so we can sack half to three quarters of HMRC as everyone will actually pay the tax due.

    Two years ago I worked out my total tax burden, from what I invoice, to what I spend my money on, what I pay in council tax etc. You may or may not be surprised to know – of everything I invoice – the government ends up taking 68%. Un-effing-believable. That’s worse than lords and kings took in medieval times. The tithe tax was only 1/10 of what you made – not 7/10!

    The only people who have money of their own will be the super wealthy who – if you believe David Icke are some part of a global conspiracy. LOL.. We really really really need some kind of revolution (of the policy kind not the war kind) because until there is the government will just grow and grow until we all pay 100% of our income to the government and we all work for them. I am seriously starting at looking how to get into politics or at least lobbying to get this mess sorted. There’s a few groups of interests such as taxpayers alliance and tax2020. Honestly – I think the political parties have had their day as they don’t control the bods, they just take the flak for what they cause, and we should bin them and start electing independent infidels, sorry, individuals to get some power back. I’m all for the American system of removing the top layer of the public sector at election time – so the old boys don’t influence the new incomers too much.

    As you can guess - I'm not really a fan of IR35. I'd call it the most nasty - targetted - vindictive tax ever invented. Just like Blair should be arrested for war crimes, Brown should be arrested for violating the human rights of "A right to live without interference from the state".

    Rant over – have I missed anything – over to you….
    Last edited by IR35FanClub; 31 August 2012, 10:13.
    Signed sealed and delivered.

    #2
    Oh come on, how many people have actually been through a review? How many of them have lost? Chill out, carry on, go permie or... and here's the real issue, start a proper business. Cos let's face it, 99.9% on here aren't.

    Comment


      #3
      Excellent rant! Thanks.

      Comment


        #4
        Are you sure it's facist? Not bourgeois or any of the other melodramatic words people use without knowing what they mean?
        Originally posted by MaryPoppins
        I'd still not breastfeed a nazi
        Originally posted by vetran
        Urine is quite nourishing

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Jeebo72 View Post
          Oh come on, how many people have actually been through a review? How many of them have lost? Chill out, carry on, go permie or... and here's the real issue, start a proper business. Cos let's face it, 99.9% on here aren't.
          Not a proper business?

          Not an employee either - not interested in pay reviews, company performance, department resturcturing, carrer progression or training. I come in, complete some tasks the client has asked me to do. Go home. I'm not worried about what role someone has, if their paygrade is higher than mine, if they are the person who needs to do something for me to be able to complete my work I'll talk to them and get them to do it.

          This has always been the problem. IF you define a business as someone that buys things and has a premises to sell them from, or does services from their own premises, then that leaves a lot of consulatanices who do body shopping in an awkward position. Should they pay all the £1000/day they invoice for to the consultant who is on site - after taking out legitimate company expenses, such as HR and head office costs?

          These are the closest people to contractors and the government doesn't dicatate to the big guys on what taxes they have to pay and how to pay their employees. The pay their CT. PAYE for their staff, and then some sharesholders get the rest as a dividend. That's exactly what I do too.

          Me - I don't take all my money - I'm saving up company funds for a big proejct. Probably 2 years away. If HMRC get their way - they'll force me to pay tax now, defeating the point of setting up a company to invest time and money in.

          Going permanent is not an option. That compaletely defeats the idea of being a consultant for me - being able to move around between companies on a 6 months to 1 year basis - taking my knoweldge and experience with me. Imagine trying to land a permy job if for the last 5 years your average length of time staying in a job is 9 months!
          Signed sealed and delivered.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by d000hg View Post
            Are you sure it's facist? Not bourgeois or any of the other melodramatic words people use without knowing what they mean?
            Pedant. I used the term loosely to represent the opposite end of the political specturm than what is probably described as a liberal democracy. Maybe I should have used communist-pseudo democracy. As in a single party state (the civil service) who does what they like under the apparent veil of democracy provided by a toothless parliament who live in fear of the ill-informed, un-interested electorate [edit - who's opinions are created by the owners of unaccountable international media organisations]
            Last edited by IR35FanClub; 31 August 2012, 10:43.
            Signed sealed and delivered.

            Comment


              #7
              Avoiding reviews and office politics doesn't stop you being an employee...

              I dunno I think most of us contractors are clearly not employees, but are equally not independent businesses either. We have elements of both and lack elements of both.
              Originally posted by MaryPoppins
              I'd still not breastfeed a nazi
              Originally posted by vetran
              Urine is quite nourishing

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by IR35FanClub View Post
                Not a proper business?

                Not an employee either - not interested in pay reviews, company performance, department resturcturing, carrer progression or training. I come in, complete some tasks the client has asked me to do. Go home. I'm not worried about what role someone has, if their paygrade is higher than mine, if they are the person who needs to do something for me to be able to complete my work I'll talk to them and get them to do it.

                This has always been the problem. IF you define a business as someone that buys things and has a premises to sell them from, or does services from their own premises, then that leaves a lot of consulatanices who do body shopping in an awkward position. Should they pay all the £1000/day they invoice for to the consultant who is on site - after taking out legitimate company expenses, such as HR and head office costs?

                These are the closest people to contractors and the government doesn't dicatate to the big guys on what taxes they have to pay and how to pay their employees. The pay their CT. PAYE for their staff, and then some sharesholders get the rest as a dividend. That's exactly what I do too.

                Me - I don't take all my money - I'm saving up company funds for a big proejct. Probably 2 years away. If HMRC get their way - they'll force me to pay tax now, defeating the point of setting up a company to invest time and money in.

                Going permanent is not an option. That compaletely defeats the idea of being a consultant for me - being able to move around between companies on a 6 months to 1 year basis - taking my knoweldge and experience with me. Imagine trying to land a permy job if for the last 5 years your average length of time staying in a job is 9 months!
                As I said chill. You'll have a heart attack before you get to spend the money on the "big project!" No need to regurgitate the same old nonsense I’ve been a contractor for years, running my business as I see fit.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by IR35FanClub View Post
                  As you can guess - I'm not really a fan of IR35. I'd call it the most nasty - targetted - vindictive tax ever invented. Just like Blair should be arrested for war crimes, Brown should be arrested for violating the human rights of "A right to live without interference from the state".
                  I don't like IR35. But it is fair. We are basically employees.

                  What is unfair is that the tax rate gets to 40+%.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    To me, it's unfair when you're inside IR35 AND when you're not... it's just unfair to different people.
                    Originally posted by MaryPoppins
                    I'd still not breastfeed a nazi
                    Originally posted by vetran
                    Urine is quite nourishing

                    Comment

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