Nicking pensions makes it all better...

[DimPrawn]

UK deficit widens to biggest on record for August - Telegraph

Public sector net borrowing excluding financial sector interventions - the government's preferred measure - rose last month to £14.41bn from £14.37bn in August 2011, the Office for National Statistics said.

That was the highest for any August since records began in January 1993, but below economists' forecast in a Reuters poll for £15bn.

It took borrowing in the fiscal year to date to £31bn, down from £48.45bn in the April-August period 2011. However, stripping out the transfer of Royal Mail pension assets, the deficit stood at £59bn, up 21.8pc compared to April-August 2011.

Anyone else think having a pension pot is a sitting duck?

Have NuLab actually left the building?

s

[Gentile]

Pensions are a mugs' game. That's why Assurance companies have got to try and force them on people by lobbying the government to come up with legislation that automatically enrols the chumps that take them out, in the hope that inertia will make their profits for them where traditional marketing has failed to. It's exactly the same con as "automatic renewal" for car insurance that they've been getting away with for years; pretending their interest is in "saving the customer the trouble" of making their own informed purchasing decisions, when in reality of course their sole and only interest is in company profits, which they can only achieve by screwing pension scheme members and insurance holders over.

There have been way too many schemes that have gone bust, or have suddenly become worthless right before they were due to pay out as the government or those running the schemes change their minds about what was "affordable" in the current economic climate. I wish I could do that with my mortgage: dear Mortgage Company, I know I said I'd pay X at time Y, but really, in this climate, that's just no longer affordable. Suck it up, why don't you?

It makes me laugh when I hear self-serving scheme organisers trying to con new members into joining by talking about the supposed "free money" they'll be turning down by not joining their blatant pyramid schemes. In reality all you're doing by not joining is denying them free money, which they would otherwise have got from a combination of your wages and the Treasury in the form of tax breaks for each sucker customer they sign up. It's your own tax and your own wages that are paying for that so-called "free" money, and the percentage you pay vs the percentage that comes from tax breaks will change dramatically in years to come, once you've already invested a few years in an increasingly-worthless scheme. There's nothing free about that money when it comes time to pay out either: it's gone, having been used to pay the founders of the pyramid scheme years before.

All today's pension scheme members will be left with when they retire, if they're lucky, is round about the same pittance that all the people that never joined pension schemes in the first place will get from the state anyway. If you've ever been unemployed you'll recognise the irony: despite having paid tax for years to support the NI system, you'll find you get a whole 7 weeks to find a job or you'll be on the same crap money as every dole bludger that's never worked a day in their lives. Don't be surprised when, aged 75 (or whatever the retirement age will be then) you experience the exact same level of contempt.

[OwlHoot]

UK deficit widens to biggest on record for August - Telegraph

Public sector net borrowing excluding financial sector interventions - the government's preferred measure - rose last month to £14.41bn from £14.37bn in August 2011, the Office for National Statistics said.

That was the highest for any August since records began in January 1993, but below economists' forecast in a Reuters poll for £15bn.

It took borrowing in the fiscal year to date to £31bn, down from £48.45bn in the April-August period 2011. However, stripping out the transfer of Royal Mail pension assets, the deficit stood at £59bn, up 21.8pc compared to April-August 2011.

Anyone else think having a pension pot is a sitting duck?

Have NuLab actually left the building?

s

Saw the article, and wondered what the inflation adjusted figures would be (if these aren't already)

[OwlHoot]

Pensions are a mugs' game. That's why Assurance companies have got to try and force them on people by lobbying the government to come up with legislation that automatically enrols the chumps that take them out ...

Quite agree, and the same will probably apply to property landlords in the long term. People who think their property portfolio will be a nice and secure little earner for their old age are falling into the classic schoolboy error of assuming that everything will stay roughly as it is. But in fact changes always lead to other changes to compensate, and in the coming years property will be too much of a juicy target for hard pressed politicians to ignore.

[escapeUK]

All today's pension scheme members will be left with when they retire, if they're lucky, is round about the same pittance that all the people that never joined pension schemes in the first place will get from the state anyway. If you've ever been unemployed you'll recognise the irony: despite having paid tax for years to support the NI system, you'll find you get a whole 7 weeks to find a job or you'll be on the same crap money as every dole bludger that's never worked a day in their lives. Don't be surprised when, aged 75 (or whatever the retirement age will be then) you experience the exact same level of contempt.

Exactly! You are one switched on cookie on this subject. Coupled with the fact that whatever money you put into a pension now is worth 50% less every 10 years or so, it is a complete mugs game.

Talking of which, I need to look into the new pensions legislation as Im sure an argument will ensue at clientco. Do you know much about it G?

[fullyautomatix]

Pensions are a mugs' game. That's why Assurance companies have got to try and force them on people by lobbying the government to come up with legislation that automatically enrols the chumps that take them out, in the hope that inertia will make their profits for them where traditional marketing has failed to. It's exactly the same con as "automatic renewal" for car insurance that they've been getting away with for years; pretending their interest is in "saving the customer the trouble" of making their own informed purchasing decisions, when in reality of course their sole and only interest is in company profits, which they can only achieve by screwing pension scheme members and insurance holders over.

There have been way too many schemes that have gone bust, or have suddenly become worthless right before they were due to pay out as the government or those running the schemes change their minds about what was "affordable" in the current economic climate. I wish I could do that with my mortgage: dear Mortgage Company, I know I said I'd pay X at time Y, but really, in this climate, that's just no longer affordable. Suck it up, why don't you?

It makes me laugh when I hear self-serving scheme organisers trying to con new members into joining by talking about the supposed "free money" they'll be turning down by not joining their blatant pyramid schemes. In reality all you're doing by not joining is denying them free money, which they would otherwise have got from a combination of your wages and the Treasury in the form of tax breaks for each sucker customer they sign up. It's your own tax and your own wages that are paying for that so-called "free" money, and the percentage you pay vs the percentage that comes from tax breaks will change dramatically in years to come, once you've already invested a few years in an increasingly-worthless scheme. There's nothing free about that money when it comes time to pay out either: it's gone, having been used to pay the founders of the pyramid scheme years before.

All today's pension scheme members will be left with when they retire, if they're lucky, is round about the same pittance that all the people that never joined pension schemes in the first place will get from the state anyway. If you've ever been unemployed you'll recognise the irony: despite having paid tax for years to support the NI system, you'll find you get a whole 7 weeks to find a job or you'll be on the same crap money as every dole bludger that's never worked a day in their lives. Don't be surprised when, aged 75 (or whatever the retirement age will be then) you experience the exact same level of contempt.

It depends on the scheme. Some companies offer generous schemes and in some you can choose how the money is invested. Some companies offer matching contributions or more for permie employees. This is a doubling of your money instantly but obviously you have to make sure you have a say in how its invested.

NHS pensions and council pensions are also very very generous and I assuming guaranteed. So really sometimes its not a mugs game, its a gravy train.

[ZARDOZ]

Quite agree, and the same will probably apply to property landlords in the long term. People who think their property portfolio will be a nice and secure little earner for their old age are falling into the classic schoolboy error of assuming that everything will stay roughly as it is. But in fact changes always lead to other changes to compensate, and in the coming years property will be too much of a juicy target for hard pressed politicians to ignore.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to OwlHoot again

[escapeUK]

Quite agree, and the same will probably apply to property landlords in the long term. People who think their property portfolio will be a nice and secure little earner for their old age are falling into the classic schoolboy error of assuming that everything will stay roughly as it is. But in fact changes always lead to other changes to compensate, and in the coming years property will be too much of a juicy target for hard pressed politicians to ignore.

I agree that governments will grasp at any source of revenue they can, but Im pretty sure the daft people of this isle will increase house prices by another 50% the first sign of any boom that comes along.

[minestrone]

What is the score with means testing of the state pension these days?

IF you have an private pension that brings in more than the basic state pension (107 pw) do they reduce that?

[Gentile]

It depends on the scheme. Some companies offer generous schemes and in some you can choose how the money is invested. Some companies offer matching contributions or more for permie employees. This is a doubling of the money that you'll never see again going into the black hole of a pyramid scheme.

NHS pensions and council pensions are also very very generous and I assuming guaranteed. So really sometimes its not a mugs game, its a gravy train.

FTFY. As for the "gravy train" that is public sector pension schemes, all you need to do to benefit from one is accept a job paying crap wages for 30-40 years, whilst at the same time accept being mired in so much red tape that you'll never be able to be effective at whatever it is that you do. With that kind of attractive prospect, it's a wonder so few people sign up to these schemes that the pension scheme providers need to lobby the government to make enrolment automatic for new employees rather than the informed choice it's been until now. You'd think people would be biting their hands off for all that "free money" that they're apparently turning down.