demand for payment from DWP

[quackhandle]

Mrs qh has had a letter last week from a DWP related debt collection agency demanding payment of just over £200. No details about where is payment from, no breakdown, nothing. Said they'd contacted her about this matter previously (a complete lie). Letter contains TWO payment slips and uses threatening language, ie - don't ignore, if you do will take matters further, payment must be made, etc.

I have read a few sites where a few people have had the same thing, saying that is is just the DCA chancing their arm as the debt has been sold to them from the DWP. Anyone else has this?

qh

[Safe Collections]

Mrs qh has had a letter last week from a DWP related debt collection agency demanding payment of just over £200. No details about where is payment from, no breakdown, nothing. Said they'd contacted her about this matter previously (a complete lie). Letter contains TWO payment slips and uses threatening language, ie - don't ignore, if you do will take matters further, payment must be made, etc.

I have read a few sites where a few people have had the same thing, saying that is is just the DCA chancing their arm as the debt has been sold to them from the DWP. Anyone else has this?

qh

It is a DCA trying to collect, but the debt hasn't been "sold" the DCA is collecting on behalf of the DWP.

Mrs qh's best bet is to write back asking for details of the amount. What it relates to and when it was paid. If they respond you will at least know if it is legitimate or not.

If you receive further standard letters with no actual detail just send back the first letter. Eventually you should receive more than an automated reply (in theory anyway).

[suityou01]

It is a DCA trying to collect, but the debt hasn't been "sold" the DCA is collecting on behalf of the DWP.

Mrs qh's best bet is to write back asking for details of the amount. What it relates to and when it was paid. If they respond you will at least know if it is legitimate or not.

If you receive further standard letters with no actual detail just send back the first letter. Eventually you should receive more than an automated reply (in theory anyway).

Is this not called acknowledging the debt? Advice I have had in the past that works is to write back telling them that

a) They are not welcome at your property without a prior appointment. There is case law to quote on this but I cannot readily find it.
b) You have no debt to answer.
c) If they persist in contacting you without providing evidence to support their allegation you will report them to the police for harassment.

If they do come up with something and the debt is > 7 years old it is statute barred and unenforceable.

Play carefully.

IANAL and and offering an opinion based on my experience. This is not legal advice.

[BrilloPad]

Last year I got a bill for £1500 for VAT for a company I had never heard of. I looked it up and it had been dissolved 6 months before I bought the house. Very threatening tone.

One call and it was all cancelled.

[suityou01]

Last year I got a bill for £1500 for VAT for a company I had never heard of. I looked it up and it had been dissolved 6 months before I bought the house. Very threatening tone.

One call and it was all cancelled.

One call to arrange a horses head?

Don't **** with Brillo

[Safe Collections]

Is this not called acknowledging the debt?

Just replying to correspondence asking for further details does not constitute admitting a debt.

a) They are not welcome at your property without a prior appointment. There is case law to quote on this but I cannot readily find it.

Actually anyone can knock at your door irrespective of if they have been invited to or not. But if you ask them to leave they should do so.

b) You have no debt to answer.

The problem is with no details it's impossible to know for sure if the amount is legitimate or not.

c) If they persist in contacting you without providing evidence to support their allegation you will report them to the police for harassment.

Unless you are threatened or intimidated in pursuit of a debt, the police will not be interested. You could however complain to the OFT.

If they do come up with something and the debt is > 7 years old it is statute barred and unenforceable.

The statute of limitations is 6 years in England & Wales. The DWP can't take legal action after 6 years, however any "debt" could theoretically be recovered at a later date via a deduction in future benefits.

The problem for the OP in this case is that the DWP are on a massive recovery spree using a number of DCA's. In most cases we have direct experience of the DWP/DCA are simply not responding to queries and just sending letter after automated letter.

If the OP responds and asks for clarification they will have clear proof that the matter wasn't ignored and that puts the onus back onto the DWP.

[suityou01]

Just replying to correspondence asking for further details does not constitute admitting a debt.

A debt collection agency ID'd me over the phone. I told them I didn't have to talk to them, and they said that once I had identified myself I was then acknowledging the debt and then could be legally pursued. There is a difference between acknowledging a debt, and accepting liability.

Actually anyone can knock at your door irrespective of if they have been invited to or not. But if you ask them to leave they should do so.

Are we talking English or Scottish law? In English law no they can't if you write and inform them they can't. They would then have to arrange an appointment under OFT rules. In Scottish law there is an implied license that people may visit your property without an appointment, the postman, etc. This license again could be revoked if done in writing.

The problem is with no details it's impossible to know for sure if the amount is legitimate or not.

Admit nothing. You don't have to request details. You have the right to ignore. If you are good with your money and know who your creditors are you would have no qualms in doing this. Obviously this does run the risk they could file for a CCJ so it's important that you have a letter sent to them telling them that unless they provide details they can bugger off. Arguably this is similar if not the same as asking for details, but I see this as more of wafting away a pesky fly. These bastards prey on the elderly and vulnerable and should be treated with contempt from the outset. Don't put anything in writing you wish you didn't. "Please tell me more about this debt" is not a compelling as "There is no debt and unless you provide evidence you can bugger off". Start strong, get stronger if they come back.

Unless you are threatened or intimidated in pursuit of a debt, the police will not be interested. You could however complain to the OFT.

Yes officer, it was dark and I genuinely thought he had a knife. I was petrified, I'm so sorry I got it wrong.

The statute of limitations is 6 years in England & Wales. The DWP can't take legal action after 6 years, however any "debt" could theoretically be recovered at a later date via a deduction in future benefits.

Care to back that up?

The problem for the OP in this case is that the DWP are on a massive recovery spree using a number of DCA's. In most cases we have direct experience of the DWP/DCA are simply not responding to queries and just sending letter after automated letter.

If the OP responds and asks for clarification they will have clear proof that the matter wasn't ignored and that puts the onus back onto the DWP.

denies the debt outright and demands that any further attempts to contact him/her cease immediately unless evidence is provided.

[craig1]

A debt collection agency ID'd me over the phone. I told them I didn't have to talk to them, and they said that once I had identified myself I was then acknowledging the debt and then could be legally pursued. There is a difference between acknowledging a debt, and accepting liability.

Some scenarios:

Scenario 1: (by phone) "Are you suityou01 who owes Company A £1000?" That is NOT acknowledging a debt.
Scenario 2: (by phone) "Are you suityou01? Prove it..." (and you do). That is NOT acknowledging a debt.
Scenario 3: (in writing) "Are you suityou01 who owes Company A £1000?" AND you reply in writing that you are without stating that you treat the debt as statute barred. That IS acknowledging a debt.

Revoking your right to treat a debt as statute barred within the terms of the Limitations Act 1980 isn't as simple as some collection agencies pretend. You can even tell them bluntly on the phone from 6 years after the debt was last acknowledged (e.g. a payment is an acknowledgement) that you took the money, used it as toilet paper and they're not getting any back and there's nowt they can do unless YOU write it down.

[quackhandle]

Thanks all for the replies, a well worded letter will be sent tomorrow morning. Will see if they respond.

qh

[Safe Collections]

A debt collection agency ID'd me over the phone. I told them I didn't have to talk to them, and they said that once I had identified myself I was then acknowledging the debt and then could be legally pursued. There is a difference between acknowledging a debt, and accepting liability.

That simply isn't true (DCA in untrue claim shock!). If they identify you that's one thing but just confirming your personal details does not acknowledge or admit a debt.

Are we talking English or Scottish law? In English law no they can't if you write and inform them they can't. They would then have to arrange an appointment under OFT rules. In Scottish law there is an implied license that people may visit your property without an appointment, the postman, etc. This license again could be revoked if done in writing.

Our understanding of English law (bearing in mind we don't conduct consumer debt collection so aren't experts) is that at worst it is civil trespass meaning you can theoretically raise a civil claim. But we are unaware of any example of this ever actually happening.

Admit nothing. You don't have to request details. You have the right to ignore. If you are good with your money and know who your creditors are you would have no qualms in doing this. Obviously this does run the risk they could file for a CCJ so it's important that you have a letter sent to them telling them that unless they provide details they can bugger off.

So ignore them but send them a letter?

Arguably this is similar if not the same as asking for details, but I see this as more of wafting away a pesky fly. These bastards prey on the elderly and vulnerable and should be treated with contempt from the outset.

Don't hold back now, tell us what you really think!

In fairness some agencies are pretty unpleasant from management all the way down to the call centre staff, but treat everyone with contempt? Blimey...

Don't put anything in writing you wish you didn't. "Please tell me more about this debt" is not a compelling as "There is no debt and unless you provide evidence you can bugger off". Start strong, get stronger if they come back.

That is good advice, but you may want to avoid the expletives A simple "I have no knowledge of this alleged amount and require further details to support your clients claim" will suffice.

Yes officer, it was dark and I genuinely thought he had a knife. I was petrified, I'm so sorry I got it wrong.

Care to back that up?

Gladly Taken from National Debt Line here

"The cause of action (when the limitation period starts running) for benefit overpayments, is when a final decision is made on the overpayment. This is most likely to be a final decision by a local authority, the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) or a tribunal."

Our understanding is that the DWP consider the moment the overpayment was identified is when the limitations clock starts running. Not when the overpayment was made.

denies the debt outright and demands that any further attempts to contact him/her cease immediately unless evidence is provided.

Feel free. However refusing to engage with the process when a genuine and non statute barred debt exists does run the risk your creditor may take you to court.