PDA

View Full Version : HMRC enquiries for Talent Resource Management (TRM) / Cherrylon / Trentburg Schemes



Pages : [1] 2

convict
25th February 2013, 15:49
For people who used The "Talent Resource Management" scheme and have either recently received the class of 08/09 invite or are already under the kosh due to an existing COP8 enquiry. Also for Cherrylon/Trentburg 2009/10 and 2010/11 tickets

Edit:For group representation queries ping me an email hmrc0809@gmail.com (this goes for anyone else on TRM/Cherrylon/Trentburg too)

I'm getting quite a few emails. If you want to speed things up when you email me, include some sort of scheme membership proof.

doncrolleone
25th February 2013, 18:21
So has everyone sent their letters of disagreement?

convict
25th February 2013, 20:05
So has everyone sent their letters of disagreement?

I haven't actually had mine yet. I'm sure it's coming as others at my work have had theirs. Those that I know about have had the standard response from Tax Talk UK and have sent back the three-liner. If/when mine turns up I'll do the same.

I've been checking my SA online account and have not had anything show up there yet. I'm guessing it will appear there first.

convict
26th February 2013, 08:09
Letter template:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wish to appeal against the 2008/09 Assessment recently issued.

I disagree that the amount assessed constitutes taxable income and I do not agree the figure issued.

I wish to apply for a full postponement of the tax demanded pending further clarification.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

richt5a
26th February 2013, 09:36
Received the 08/09 letter and Special Civil Investigations letters previously for prior years.

Engaged Gilberts Tax a long time ago.

Still sitting waiting/fighting it out.

Michael J Perry FCA
26th February 2013, 09:55
For a number of years, I have been dealing with HMRC investigations for contractors who were employed by Talent and have more than 30 ongoing cases.

Talent now operate as Raingold or Futurelink and have set-up a new company to provide tax advice although they do not seem to know very much about Talent as it was before their time.

As Talent was not an EBT scheme (and changed in November 2007 from dividends to loans), it presents a particular challenge for HMRC.

Last year, I was in discussions with HMRC Special Investigations Office about a possible voluntary settlement opportunity for ex-employees but no further progress has been made. A test case could be heard late this year or 2014.

HMRC are likely to attack the scheme under S739 ICTA 1988.

I am in contact with the liquidator of Talent and believe that HMRC now have details of all employees. They are currently in the process of looking at those they missed before (in particular those who joined after 5 April 2007).

I act for many clients that went on to Cherrylon Marketing Limited from 1 April 2009 up to December 2010 (in some cases) and some of those have a further investigation into that employment.

At the same time, some of the ex-Talent people have HMRC enquiries for Sanzar, Darwinpay, AM Limited, etc where they went after Talent although others have heard nothing.

This is a complex area of tax practice but I would be pleased to help out if I can on the forum.

Andy123
26th February 2013, 09:58
Engaged Gilberts Tax a long time ago.

Still sitting waiting/fighting it out.

I have heard the name Gilbert's on a number of occasions regarding g TRM clients.

Are they any good and what have they achieved for you since you engaged them? I.e. why are you still waiting, have Gilbert's not resolved this with HMRC for you?

I am enquiring with a view to engage someone but not decided yet so any advice on Gilbert's would be appreciated.

P.s. when you look up their address on Google maps, it comes up with a house on a lane in Leeds!

Michael J Perry FCA
26th February 2013, 10:15
It was impossible to guage how much would be written about a simple appeal application.

I have provided over 30 templates to contractors and it would have been less time consuming just to post the suggested reply to HMRC on the forum. However, there was an issue about non-disclosure and professional liability.

I have taken legal advice on this matter and now produce my SUGGESTED reply to HMRC on the understanding that it may not suit all cases and that I accept no financial or professional responsibility for reliance placed on it.

I WILL NOT ENTER INTO ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT THE SUGGESTED LETTER ON THE FORUM.

Assessments are still being issued by HMRC and the latest one I have seen was dated 20 February.

Here is the text of the reply:

YOUR ADDRESS

Date:
Your ref:
NI number:

HM Revenue & Customs
Local Compliance
Personal & CGT Compliance
Chailey House
Cardington Road
Bedford MK42 0YS

For the attention of Miss L J Stopp

Dear Madam,

YOUR NAME

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated xx February 2013, a notice of assessment and tax calculation for 2008/09.

Please take this letter as my formal notice of appeal against the assessment.

I apply to postpone the further tax charged of £xxxxx on the ground that no additional taxable income has been agreed.

Kindly acknowledge receipt.

Yours faithfully,



………………………………….
(Signature)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

trickytax
26th February 2013, 10:45
Another one here, with a letter to appeal.

Does anyone know if the TRM scheme was one known to the HMRC via DOTAS, and was issued with a reference number?

porrker
26th February 2013, 11:52
Another one here, with a letter to appeal.

Does anyone know if the TRM scheme was one known to the HMRC via DOTAS, and was issued with a reference number?

Yes it was registered with a DOTAS number. All the schemes users currently being investigated where using schemes with a DOTAS number.

convict
26th February 2013, 12:00
Yes it was registered with a DOTAS number. All the schemes users currently being investigated where using schemes with a DOTAS number.

Any idea what the number is? If so, could you let me know please?

porrker
26th February 2013, 14:39
Any idea what the number is? If so, could you let me know please?

No I don't have the scheme DOTAS number. You should be able to retrieve this from your self assessment.

trickytax
27th February 2013, 15:47
So with a DOTAS number, presumably there is strong reasoning that Discovery assessments are invalid / unlawful, since HMRC were aware of the scheme?

cojak
27th February 2013, 16:36
So with a DOTAS number, presumably there is strong reasoning that Discovery assessments are invalid / unlawful, since HMRC were aware of the scheme?

That is a dangerous assumption which I would get confirmed by a tax specialist as opposed to an online forum.

slatt
3rd March 2013, 12:47
For people who used The "Talent Resource Management" scheme and have either recently received the class of 08/09 invite or are already under the kosh due to an existing COP8 enquiry.

Thanks for setting this group up Convict

I only received my letter yesterday but will be sending out my appeal letter based on Michael's template as soon as

will keep you guys updated if any new info comes to light

pinkyperky
3rd March 2013, 13:32
Yes it was registered with a DOTAS number. All the schemes users currently being investigated where using schemes with a DOTAS number.

If the individual doesn't have a DOTAS number and did not put it on their tax return then clearly HMRC would have a discovery if they didn't raise and enquiry within the appropriate enquiry windows.

Equally however the presence of a DOTAS number would not necessarily preclude HMRC making a discovery if the return did not mention tax relevant matters. However you would also need to consider the recent Upper Tribunal case of CRC v Charlton, Corfield & another [2012] UK FTT 770 where the Upper Tribunal found against HMRC and confirmed, for different reasons, (i.e. not the presence of a DOTAS number) the decision of the First-tier Tribunal that HMRC were not entitled to make discovery assessments under section 29 (discovery provisions).

We might of course expect HMRC to seek to appeal that decision - but time will tell

Toasty
4th March 2013, 09:14
I have also received a letter about my time with TRM in 08/09

Administrators - Could I please have PM rights as I'd like to contact others in this thread. Thanks.

Monicas knee pads
5th March 2013, 11:51
So with a DOTAS number, presumably there is strong reasoning that Discovery assessments are invalid / unlawful, since HMRC were aware of the scheme?

I have never been asked to fill in a tax return since I started working, but they still came up with a figure to levy against me. Does anyone know if there is any group action being formed or is in place to finance the battle ahead ?

taxedermy
6th March 2013, 13:48
add me to growing list of people who have received 08/09 assessment notice under discovery.
appeal sent today.

taxi.

arthurpewtey
6th March 2013, 21:48
Me too - appeal in the post tonight.

arthurpewtey
8th March 2013, 19:19
Me too - appeal in the post tonight.

And a Self Assessment Statement tonight, which declares the assessment to which this week's discovery assessment letter referred, is dated 31 Jan 10 - and that therefore an additional interest charge of almost 10% of the sum assessed by the week's earlier letter is due (on top of the sum assessed as due on alleged income, of course).

The Statement gives no details as to how to dispute the interest charge, which I would like to do on at least the grounds that:

a. I have appealed the validity of the assessment of liability on which the interest is showing as owed
b. That it is plainly ludicrous to assert that any such assessment was made in Jan 10, unless it was made by HMRC and "kept secret" for three years

Should I at least write to point out that I have already appealed the original assessment?

fetabob
10th March 2013, 08:36
Hi guys.

Glad this forum and contributers are here, read the big thread last night.
Got my letter in, dated 28th Feb, not had any dealings with of this sort with HMRC before + never had to do a self assessment or anything like that.

Would be great to have PM ability if there are any Mods/Admin in the neighbourhood.

convict
12th March 2013, 08:35
I've been checking HMRC Online to see if anything appears. Well this morning a new entry for 08/09 was added with interest and an amount. I guess I'll wait for the letter :(

convict
12th March 2013, 08:47
I'm hearing rumours of a 'test' case going to Tribunal in May. Does anyone know anything about it?

I'm guessing it will impact all users of the TRM scheme as the ruling will work in one party's favour.

Michael J Perry FCA
12th March 2013, 12:50
I'm hearing rumours of a 'test' case going to Tribunal in May. Does anyone know anything about it?

I'm guessing it will impact all users of the TRM scheme as the ruling will work in one party's favour.

These forthcoming hearings are not publicised (until the hearing outcome is reported) and I was informed by Specialist Investigations office last year that there are cases to be heard both in 2013 and 2014. Particular information might come from the individuals concerned and professional advisers are unable to give any information here due to ethical considerations.

HMRC have stated that they will try to recover duties either by voluntary settlement or litigation where appropriate.

bluecrescent
12th March 2013, 16:46
Has advised me to appeal right away.

look forward to updates :-)

picasso
13th March 2013, 21:52
I received the notice of assessment giving me till 30 march to pay. Today received self assessment statement with interest added.

One option to put on the appeal, from tax talk, was to add the line, 'I am paying the tax demanded in order to stop further interest accruing. This does not constitute my agreement that the income is taxable.'

Does anyone think this a good idea, to pay the full amount on the assessment now, to stop the interest, or should we just be sending of the appeal?

Apart from waiting to here when Michael's seminar is going to be and attending, does anyone know of any tax adviser specifically dealing with ex-TRM who I should be talking too. I have not sought professional advice up to now. From these threads, it seams some of us are getting mixed advice from tax consultants, some just saying pay up. I would prefer to be in contact with someone fighting our case. Can anyone advise

Old Kent Road
13th March 2013, 22:57
I received the notice of assessment giving me till 30 march to pay. Today received self assessment statement with interest added.

One option to put on the appeal, from tax talk, was to add the line, 'I am paying the tax demanded in order to stop further interest accruing. This does not constitute my agreement that the income is taxable.'

Does anyone think this a good idea, to pay the full amount on the assessment now, to stop the interest, or should we just be sending of the appeal?

Apart from waiting to here when Michael's seminar is going to be and attending, does anyone know of any tax adviser specifically dealing with ex-TRM who I should be talking too. I have not sought professional advice up to now. From these threads, it seams some of us are getting mixed advice from tax consultants, some just saying pay up. I would prefer to be in contact with someone fighting our case. Can anyone advise

You can stop the interest accruing by buying a certificate of tax deposit. I think this would be safer than paying to your hmrc account directly, even with the caveat in your response. However I would question the economics as you might be able to beat the 3% late payment interest by investing your cash elsewhere in some other vehicle if you have the lump sum funds. But IANA financial adviser...

jonnyd
14th March 2013, 00:30
just got my assessment through.. weep.

I joined this scheme in good faith. It was legal at the time. Is that not a good enough defense?
How many of these case can HMRC take on?

porrker
14th March 2013, 06:43
just got my assessment through.. weep.

I joined this scheme in good faith. It was legal at the time. Is that not a good enough defense?
How many of these case can HMRC take on?


Unfortunately not. Yes the scheme may have been legal and the scheme may still stand as being legal. What HMRC are now doing is not taking on the schemes but it's user through disguised renumeration. HMRC are going to argue that you have been paid for work performed and not a real loan and hence should be subject to PAYE/NIC. HMRC have yet to win a case but that may change with the Rangers appeal and if so it will come down to how your scheme was setup and how your contracts and trust agreements are structured.

All the scheme users currently being investigated appear to have a DOTAS number which means they registered as tax avoidance schemes HMRC may wish to test this if the schemes registered as tax avoidance they must be artificial.

picasso
14th March 2013, 07:46
the interest added is 9.28%, how can that be?

convict
14th March 2013, 08:03
So with a DOTAS number, presumably there is strong reasoning that Discovery assessments are invalid / unlawful, since HMRC were aware of the scheme?

Never mind that fact that people would have put TRM down as their employer, and HMRC were already pulling people on the same scheme way back then. It's fairly certain to say that all they had to do was do search on employer=TRM (or whatever unique employer code they have for TRM) and then they would have known at least some tax was missing.

convict
14th March 2013, 08:07
the interest added is 9.28%, how can that be?

3% per year. If you log into your SA online account https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/home, then look under:
Your HMRC Services/Self Assessment (SA)/View Account/Interest/Accruing... you'll see the breakdown.

Michael J Perry FCA
14th March 2013, 12:13
I received the notice of assessment giving me till 30 march to pay. Today received self assessment statement with interest added.

One option to put on the appeal, from tax talk, was to add the line, 'I am paying the tax demanded in order to stop further interest accruing. This does not constitute my agreement that the income is taxable.'

Does anyone think this a good idea, to pay the full amount on the assessment now, to stop the interest, or should we just be sending of the appeal?

Apart from waiting to here when Michael's seminar is going to be and attending, does anyone know of any tax adviser specifically dealing with ex-TRM who I should be talking too. I have not sought professional advice up to now. From these threads, it seams some of us are getting mixed advice from tax consultants, some just saying pay up. I would prefer to be in contact with someone fighting our case. Can anyone advise

As advised before, do not pay as this will be an admission of liability. HMRC expect a full postponement application at this stage which they will generally accept.

richt5a
19th March 2013, 11:06
Morning All,

I received my 08/09 letter

Appealed, via Gilberts Tax Services

Received a Self Assessment Statement for 08/09 with a whopping bill plus interest

Spoke to Gilberts who said HMRC were struggling to deal with the volume of appeals letters

Have just received letter from HMRC acknowledging the appeal, agreeing to postpone the collection of the whopping Bill and removing the amount from the Self Assessment statement.
Letter states that if the postponed amount becomes due after appeal interest will be charged from date they originally became due.
Also asked for documentary evidence to support disputed amounts and just spotted it appears to have come from a different office to where previous correspondence has been going. Odd.

That letter about to be sent to Gilberts!

vern19
19th March 2013, 21:04
Morning All,

I received my 08/09 letter

Appealed, via Gilberts Tax Services

Received a Self Assessment Statement for 08/09 with a whopping bill plus interest

Spoke to Gilberts who said HMRC were struggling to deal with the volume of appeals letters

Have just received letter from HMRC acknowledging the appeal, agreeing to postpone the collection of the whopping Bill and removing the amount from the Self Assessment statement.
Letter states that if the postponed amount becomes due after appeal interest will be charged from date they originally became due.
Also asked for documentary evidence to support disputed amounts and just spotted it appears to have come from a different office to where previous correspondence has been going. Odd.

That letter about to be sent to Gilberts!

Let's hope that the vast majority of people appeal. The last thing we need is HMRC thinking this is going to be easy

elbromista
21st March 2013, 17:45
And a Self Assessment Statement tonight, which declares the assessment to which this week's discovery assessment letter referred, is dated 31 Jan 10 - and that therefore an additional interest charge of almost 10% of the sum assessed by the week's earlier letter is due (on top of the sum assessed as due on alleged income, of course).

The Statement gives no details as to how to dispute the interest charge, which I would like to do on at least the grounds that:

a. I have appealed the validity of the assessment of liability on which the interest is showing as owed
b. That it is plainly ludicrous to assert that any such assessment was made in Jan 10, unless it was made by HMRC and "kept secret" for three years

Should I at least write to point out that I have already appealed the original assessment?

Hi - i got the letter today for 2008-9 - again it states "we will charge interest on the amount due from 31 Jan 2010 until it is paid" so yes surely this cant be right unless they have kept it to themselves. I've used the template which will be in the post in the morning but has everyone on here engaged professional services to act? Michael J Perry? Are Gilberts recommended? I was with TRM although i was with Batchworth as they were called and i dont recall signing anything re the company name change - i was actually only with them from around Oct 2007 to Sep 2008 then I went permanent in Sep of 2008 with same company on PAYE - the letter is a bolt of the blue for me. What recourse does everyone recommend - just send the appeal letter first and await response? Appreciate any replies - my health isnt great at the moment and getting this letter has rocked me a little - thanks v much - Stu

Andy123
21st March 2013, 18:33
Are Gilberts recommended?

Yes, after much talking to many tax 'specialists' I realised that Gilberts had the most years experience dealing with HRMC over this and are representing some dozens of ex-TRM'ers. The bigger group also helps as they split the costs amongst the clients when meeting direct with HMRC.

Contact either Tony or Samantha as they work together on TRM appeals. They charge a very reasonable fee and only for work done. They did not ask for any money on account nor have tried to capitalise from our predicament. In fact I still have not yet been billed for the appeal they lodged some weeks ago.

elbromista
21st March 2013, 18:49
Yes, after much talking to many tax 'specialists' I realised that Gilberts had the most years experience dealing with HRMC over this and are representing some dozens of ex-TRM'ers. The bigger group also helps as they split the costs amongst the clients when meeting direct with HMRC.

Contact either Tony or Samantha as they work together on TRM appeals. They charge a very reasonable fee and only for work done. They did not ask for any money on account nor have tried to capitalise from our predicament. In fact I still have not yet been billed for the appeal they lodged some weeks ago.

thanks for quick reply Andy - is it worth me posting my letter of appeal or getting Gilberts to do it? Do you have a contact email address for Tony or Samantha or just go to their website - thnx again Stu

Andy123
21st March 2013, 18:56
is it worth me posting my letter of appeal or getting Gilberts to do it? Do you have a contact email address for Tony or Samantha or just go to their website - thnx again Stu

I also thought of submitting the appeal letter myself as there were many freebie templates floating around but in the end I decided to let them handle it from the start for me. You can get their details including mobile phone/email from their website.

elbromista
21st March 2013, 20:13
I also thought of submitting the appeal letter myself as there were many freebie templates floating around but in the end I decided to let them handle it from the start for me. You can get their details including mobile phone/email from their website.

Thanks i've emailed them asking to take on my appeal so fingers crossed - thnx again

craftmaker
24th March 2013, 19:03
Hello,

I just found this forum and thread. I did post in another thread this morning, and someone kindly directed me here.

Add me to the list. I’ve recently received a letter from the taxman in regard to Talent Resource Management asking for me to pay x thousand pounds in tax for 2008/9 when I worked for TRM, plus interest.

I’ve never received any inquires from HMRC before when letters were being sent out to people back in 2008-9 and so this letter is totally out of the blue.

They didn’t seem to have any details except the amount of the loan and earnings for that year. The thing is I paid the loan back on TRM’s advice under their currency system, so as far as I was aware it was paid off, and when I had it, I was also charged interest on it, so no benefit in kind.

I will send a short appeal letter next week.

PS. Can the board moderator allow private messages please?

Michael J Perry FCA
24th March 2013, 22:38
Although Talent was not an EBT scheme, as indicated by the name of this thread, it will figure quite significantly in the forthcoming seminar as matters are quite advanced with HMRC.

Please support the event by registering as an attendee.

See the separate thread for 'EBT' Seminar.

We now have nearly 40 people registered and it will be held in London on 6 or 7 April (TBC).

cojak
25th March 2013, 07:50
Thanks for pointing that out Michael, I have now changed the title.

This is a general request for people to be more accurate in their description of the schemes they've used.

*This will prevent nice men in suits from asking us to remove this forum (not thread, forum).

Thanks.

(*I should note that this doesn't apply to TRM.)

craftmaker
26th March 2013, 21:06
It was impossible to guage how much would be written about a simple appeal application.

I have provided over 30 templates to contractors and it would have been less time consuming just to post the suggested reply to HMRC on the forum. However, there was an issue about non-disclosure and professional liability.

I have taken legal advice on this matter and now produce my SUGGESTED reply to HMRC on the understanding that it may not suit all cases and that I accept no financial or professional responsibility for reliance placed on it.

I WILL NOT ENTER INTO ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT THE SUGGESTED LETTER ON THE FORUM.

Assessments are still being issued by HMRC and the latest one I have seen was dated 20 February.

Here is the text of the reply:

YOUR ADDRESS

Date:
Your ref:
NI number:

HM Revenue & Customs
Local Compliance
Personal & CGT Compliance
Chailey House
Cardington Road
Bedford MK42 0YS

For the attention of Miss L J Stopp

Dear Madam,

YOUR NAME

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated xx February 2013, a notice of assessment and tax calculation for 2008/09.

Please take this letter as my formal notice of appeal against the assessment.

I apply to postpone the further tax charged of £xxxxx on the ground that no additional taxable income has been agreed.

Kindly acknowledge receipt.

Yours faithfully,



………………………………….
(Signature)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for the template. I wasn't sure what to do, as this is all new to me, as I'm sure it is to many here.

I got a quote from one of the mentioned tax advice companies, but it's nearly £200 for just a first appeal letter to be sent, like your template. Is this normal? I don't have any money to spare, I really don't at all, but I also don't want to spend money if HMRC will accept the template you have shown.

I found some more general templates in a Guardian article, and they are like yours.
Tax error: Letter templates to challenge your tax demand | Money | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/sep/07/tax-error-letter-templates)

The bit that worries me is, are HMRC wanting more information, as in detailed reasons for why we think we should not be taxed on our loans, or do they just need to know we disagree initially and keep it short and brief for now?

Have the people who sent their own letter, had accepted replies back yet? Any help is much appreciated.

Michael J Perry FCA
27th March 2013, 23:46
Thank you for the template. I wasn't sure what to do, as this is all new to me, as I'm sure it is to many here.

I got a quote from one of the mentioned tax advice companies, but it's nearly £200 for just a first appeal letter to be sent, like your template. Is this normal? I don't have any money to spare, I really don't at all, but I also don't want to spend money if HMRC will accept the template you have shown.

I found some more general templates in a Guardian article, and they are like yours.
Tax error: Letter templates to challenge your tax demand | Money | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/sep/07/tax-error-letter-templates)

The bit that worries me is, are HMRC wanting more information, as in detailed reasons for why we think we should not be taxed on our loans, or do they just need to know we disagree initially and keep it short and brief for now?

Have the people who sent their own letter, had accepted replies back yet? Any help is much appreciated.

If you PM me I am happy to give you free advice on this matter.

AnotherContractor
31st March 2013, 11:02
Hi,

I've also received a letter from HMRC asking for back taxes with respect to my employment with TRM, what's the general consensus, are most folks appealing against the assessment ? Cheers !

AnotherContractor
31st March 2013, 14:22
If you PM me I am happy to give you free advice on this matter.

Hi Michael,

I'm in the same boat and would appreciate your advice
Thanks

P.S. Admin can you please enable me to PM, thanks

Michael J Perry FCA
31st March 2013, 19:15
Hi Michael,

I'm in the same boat and would appreciate your advice
Thanks

P.S. Admin can you please enable me to PM, thanks

If you can get to Central London next Saturday 6 April, I will be holding a detailed seminar about HMRC actions, etc.

Please see separate thread for London EBT Seminar.

You have to register soon and I believe we have over 50 attendees so far.

AnotherContractor
1st April 2013, 14:12
If you can get to Central London next Saturday 6 April, I will be holding a detailed seminar about HMRC actions, etc.

Please see separate thread for London EBT Seminar.

You have to register soon and I believe we have over 50 attendees so far.

Unfortunately, i won't be able to make it, since I'm currently contracting in Singapore...

Michael J Perry FCA
1st April 2013, 22:00
Unfortunately, i won't be able to make it, since I'm currently contracting in Singapore...

That is a problem I am not able to deal with!

There will be future guidance on these forums.

aworriedcontractor
1st April 2013, 22:15
If you can get to Central London next Saturday 6 April, I will be holding a detailed seminar about HMRC actions, etc.

Please see separate thread for London EBT Seminar.

You have to register soon and I believe we have over 50 attendees so far.

I'm new to this forum. The information is very helpful. I would like to attend the seminar and please let me know how to register.

many thanks

cojak
2nd April 2013, 07:24
I'm new to this forum. The information is very helpful. I would like to attend the seminar and please let me know how to register.

many thanks

Take a look at the Seminar thread in this forum, details for registering are there.

Michael J Perry FCA
3rd April 2013, 10:58
You must register if you want to attend:

Doodle: Seminar on HMRC actions, EBT's and Tax Assessments/Enquiries/COP (http://doodle.com/eeed76f2vu7rbfec)

PenguinFish
3rd April 2013, 21:43
Hi Michael,

Is it possible for you (or someone) to take an audio recording of the seminar as I am overseas and can't attend. I would be happy to pay for a copy.

Thanks.

WAZZIE
23rd April 2013, 19:57
Hi All
Been lurking and reading threads here as I received a letter regarding 2008/09 from my time with talent resource management

My accountant has appealed, however we spoke today for an update and my accountant is scaring me with talk of values way above the 2k assessment in the letter.

Why have we not got letters for say ,06/07 - 07/08 etc ?

Anyone know more about just settling up with the hmrc, or how to best approach them directly for negotiations on a settlement ?

Any info appreciated.

Leebok
15th May 2013, 13:25
Can anyone help?
I have misplaced my TRM loan agreement for 2008/2009 and was wondering if anyone has a copy they could scan and send to me? It would be greatly appreciated. Obviously name & signature not wanted.

car9908
20th May 2013, 09:43
Important - Check out the latest tier 2 tribunal for

Revenue Vs Charlton (gabelle tax or accounting web)

HMRC NOT Allowed to use Discovery when sufficient information was disclosed at the time of tax return....

vern19
10th September 2013, 17:45
I have heard nothing since appealing to my 08/09 discovery notice. Has anyone got anymore info. I did hear that HMRC might have more difficulty in pressing Talent people because it was not an EBT

Leebok
12th September 2013, 19:00
I have heard nothing since appealing to my 08/09 discovery notice. Has anyone got anymore info. I did hear that HMRC might have more difficulty in pressing Talent people because it was not an EBT

I have not heard anything either since the original letter and appealing. I check various blogs and websites periodically but no recent news. I believe HMRC were waiting on the result of a trial case but that seems to have gone quiet.

seyre1972
9th November 2013, 10:45
I have not heard anything either since the original letter and appealing. I check various blogs and websites periodically but no recent news. I believe HMRC were waiting on the result of a trial case but that seems to have gone quiet.


I've previously (Jan 2013) had a 2008/2009 assessment demand - which I replied to with the standard letter postponing until clarification re retrospective taxation. Monday received a new one for the 2009/2010 Tax year. Weirdly this came from a different Tax office than the previous one. Replied with same standard deferral letter as before.

Just in-case anybody else starts to receive new letters for different Tax years. .....

Strongly recommend everybody signs up for the No To Retrospective Tax And lobby their respective MP

No To Retrospective Taxation | Campaign Against Retrospective Tax Legislation (http://notoretrotax.org.uk)


regards,


seyre

DonkeyRhubarb
9th November 2013, 12:31
Strongly recommend everybody signs up for the No To Retrospective Tax And lobby their respective MP

No To Retrospective Taxation | Campaign Against Retrospective Tax Legislation (http://notoretrotax.org.uk)


regards,


seyre

Whilst we welcome support from wherever we can get it, I think it's only fair to point out that at the moment NTRT is primarily campaigning against the retrospective tax legislation Section 58 Finance Act 2008 (also known as BN66).

This legislation targeted double taxation agreement schemes which ran from May 2001 to March 2008. It did not encompass EBTs or loans.

Promoters of the contractor DTA schemes included Montpelier, Steed, deGraaf and I believe also Sanzar.

Regards
DR

salsarocks
21st November 2013, 09:17
Hi all,

unfortunately I too have received a letter a couple of days ago, regarding my time with Trentburg Holdings Ltd. Taxman was not happy with my 09/10 work and is now asking for an extra 3k to be paid. However, it states that payment is not due now as there is credit in my account and a SA detailed form will be sent out at a later day.

My question at this point to all the connoisseurs out there is whether it is worth sending an appeal over or -having in mind the accrued interest, uncertainty of what the appeal will bring back when etc- I might be better off paying this amount (when detailed SA comes back to me) and get over it once and for all?

I would really appreciate your advice. Thanks!

convict
21st November 2013, 09:32
Hi all,

unfortunately I too have received a letter a couple of days ago, regarding my time with Trentburg Holdings Ltd. Taxman was not happy with my 09/10 work and is now asking for an extra 3k to be paid. However, it states that payment is not due now as there is credit in my account and a SA detailed form will be sent out at a later day.

My question at this point to all the connoisseurs out there is whether it is worth sending an appeal over or -having in mind the accrued interest, uncertainty of what the appeal will bring back when etc- I might be better off paying this amount (when detailed SA comes back to me) and get over it once and for all?



I would really appreciate your advice. Thanks!

Maybe lodge an appeal and move the excess amount that is in credit into a CTD? HM Revenue & Customs: The Certificate of Tax Deposit scheme (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/payinghmrc/cert-tax-deposit.htm)

Or just pay it and write the money off?

Your call really, only you can decide how much the 3k means to you.

Computer
26th November 2013, 09:56
Got a very big bill for my time at Trentburg. Assessments for 2009-10 and 2010-11 there last week. Anyone else in the same boat? Pls PM me!

convict
26th November 2013, 09:58
Got a very big bill for my time at Trentburg. Assessments for 2009-10 and 2010-11 there last week. Anyone else in the same boat?

Yes. Lots of people are getting Cherrylon (sister scheme) letters. PM me

Cobie
27th November 2013, 20:08
Hi People,
Just got a HMRC letter re notices of assessments of Income tax that they're not happy with.

I've scanned the thread, but I am not sure what to do? The amounts "outstanding" are quite serious and I dont have the money to pay it back.

1st of all I'd like to know how to appeal, Some folk has said to PM them, how do I do that?

I can't understand why they've not advised me earlier about the alleged shortfall ?

Any help or advise would be appreciated, I'm stressed out about the whole thing now.

Thanks,
C

Cobie
27th November 2013, 20:15
Yes. Lots of people are getting Cherrylon (sister scheme) letters. PM me

Hi, I'm new to this blog thing, I'm trying to send you a message re these letters, I just got one, and would like to ask you for some advice. Don't know what to do exactly. Thanks for your help.

Cobie

Oldcontractor
30th November 2013, 16:39
Yes. Lots of people are getting Cherrylon (sister scheme) letters. PM me

Hi convict. same here. Just received gobsmackingly huge bill re trentburg. As I've just joined the forum I don't seem to be able to PM.

Would you please PM me with any advice/info

Thanks

Kenny Lingus
30th November 2013, 17:05
How do you PM on this site? Just got a horrible shock in the post. Anyone know how to appeal cos Trentburg was sold to me as a UK tax compliant company. Cannot pay this bill!!!!

contractor213
2nd December 2013, 15:02
I'm in the same boat. It's a shocking amount! Highly overestimated. Dont have it to pay. What are people doing?



Maybe lodge an appeal and move the excess amount that is in credit into a CTD? HM Revenue & Customs: The Certificate of Tax Deposit scheme (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/payinghmrc/cert-tax-deposit.htm)

Or just pay it and write the money off?

Your call really, only you can decide how much the 3k means to you.

contractor213
2nd December 2013, 15:03
I am in the exact same boat. (Can't find a way to PM...)

Got a very big bill for my time at Trentburg. Assessments for 2009-10 and 2010-11 there last week. Anyone else in the same boat? Pls PM me!

<admin note>PM enabled</admin note>

administrator
2nd December 2013, 17:00
Hi all,

Just a note to say all who have requested PM access in this thread have had this enabled on their account. If you need PM access and don't want to post then create an account and then use the contact form in the footer (http://forums.contractoruk.com/sendmessage.php) and I will update your account. We don't give PM access on new accounts due to the problems we have had with spammers etc.

Kind Regards

Admin

MarkR
3rd December 2013, 10:51
I have also just received a MASSIVE bill from HMRC for Trentburg for 09/10. The problem is, that I paid something for 10/11 earlier this year as it was only a small amount. They said to me that it was because a mistake had been made though, and not that I was doing anything they regarded as 'avoidance'. Hopefully this doesn't affect my ability to appeal.

So has anyone had any joy with that template letter?

varunksingh
3rd December 2013, 21:10
I have also just received a MASSIVE bill from HMRC for Trentburg for 09/10. The problem is, that I paid something for 10/11 earlier this year as it was only a small amount. They said to me that it was because a mistake had been made though, and not that I was doing anything they regarded as 'avoidance'. Hopefully this doesn't affect my ability to appeal.

So has anyone had any joy with that template letter?

I am no expert and like you one of the contractors who used an scheme. I think you have done a big mistake by paying for a same scheme for another year. I think in technical terms accountants and tax lawyers refer to this "accepting liability". If you paid for one year than you have agreed with HMRC and it will apply to other years. I am just trying to help and am not an expert. Speak to a qualified account or tax lawyer.

GEORGE70
3rd December 2013, 21:46
I'm new on site/to this.......however, I have also recently received a MASSIVE bill from HMRC for Trentburg for 09/10. Would appreciate any help or advice.

Admin - Please grant PM access. Thanks.

<admin note>PM access granted.</admin note>

Michael J Perry FCA
5th December 2013, 12:27
I would be grateful to hear from anyone that has details about the Trentburg Scheme and/or a copy of Counsel's Opinion if it exists (although this may be covered a non-disclosure confidentiality agreement).

jagsy
5th December 2013, 14:08
Same here, I got a huge bill for 09/10 which was also hugely overestimated. Would someone kindly help with launching an appeal. I have about 2 weeks to appeal.

Admin:- Kindly provide PM rights

richt5a
6th December 2013, 13:32
Presuming everyone has seen this thread

http://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc-scheme-enquiries/86442-hmrc-enquiry-letters-loans-ebt-other-schemes-62.html

contractor2009
9th December 2013, 00:14
Hi, I'm also new on the site and another contractor who has received a large and unfair bill from HMRC from my time at Trentburg. Would someone be kind enough to provide advise on what to do. I will be submitting my appeal letter tomorrow as there's no way I can afford to repay this either. Will try seek tax advice also, any recommendations out there? Many Thanks

convict
9th December 2013, 08:35
Hi, I'm also new on the site and another contractor who has received a large and unfair bill from HMRC from my time at Trentburg. Would someone be kind enough to provide advise on what to do. I will be submitting my appeal letter tomorrow as there's no way I can afford to repay this either. Will try seek tax advice also, any recommendations out there? Many Thanks

ping me an email hmrc0809@gmail.com (this goes for anyone else on TRM/Cherrylon/Trentburg too)

Edit: I'm getting quite a few emails. If you want to speed things up when you email me, include some sort of scheme membership proof.

traveller9266
10th December 2013, 13:53
Hi all
I'm in the same boat. I have rec'd letters for the above years from hmrc wrt Trentburg and the amounts are huge!
I'm exasperated and stressed.

I have been in touch with taxtalk who will be progressing appeal.

Can you grant me PM rights please, as I want to make contact with others in the same boat / scheme.

Much appreciated.

**** EDIT:
Hi Admin, can you kindly grant me PM access rights. Thanks

Michael J Perry FCA
12th December 2013, 14:15
I urgently need information about the trentburg scheme.

Please send me a pm if you can help.

MarkR
20th December 2013, 09:15
So I called HMRC to see if they had received my appeal letter. Apparently the mail turn around time is 5-6 weeks!! I'm astounded that the method of appeal is by post but that the turn around time is longer than the deadline for payment! Unreal!

Chasey71
22nd December 2013, 15:55
Hi all,

Just got news of a couple of letters from HMRC regarding this matter as they were sent to an address I no longer live at.
The amounts they are demanding are quite significant and are gaining interest rapidly. Unfortunately as I have received these letters late the appeal date has past. I'm still going to lodge an appeal though as I feel the whole thing of Retrospective Taxation is wholly unfair.
Has anyone heard anything from Talk Tax or are there any conclusions from anyone that's been aware of this longer than myself?
Any advice will be gratefully received

davieloco
14th January 2014, 08:53
Hi,
I have just received an enquiry about my time working through Green Gables for 2011/12. Has anyone else received one. They are not talking about figures yet as it is a compliance check but am sure they will at some point

davie

Freeagain21
15th January 2014, 15:00
ping me an email hmrc0809@gmail.com (this goes for anyone else on TRM/Cherrylon/Trentburg too)

Edit: I'm getting quite a few emails. If you want to speed things up when you email me, include some sort of scheme membership proof.


Hi,

I sent an email across to Convict yesterday. Our Accountant has told us to try and make contact with Trentburg. Has anyone managed to make contact with anyone (in whatever guise they manifest themselves these days)? Do I gather we just Appeal the Self Assessments - which arrived last week in our case - and then sit tight?

I'm WAY behind the curve on this one, and I've read around all the background info on here, so an update would be appreciated. Or a recommendation for representation - someone already familiar with the Trentburg scheme preferrable.

Thanks.

ajgilly
15th January 2014, 19:34
I too have received a letter in the post today asking for a very large sum of money for the time I dealt with Trentburg.

Was sold the scheme as being UK Tax Compliant and now end up with this on my doorstep. Proper stressed out!!!

There has been a lot of talk about PM'ing to get more information from members. Any chance you could grant me PM rights so that I can make contact and get some advice.

Thanks

varunksingh
15th January 2014, 22:14
I too have received a letter in the post today asking for a very large sum of money for the time I dealt with Trentburg.

Was sold the scheme as being UK Tax Compliant and now end up with this on my doorstep. Proper stressed out!!!

There has been a lot of talk about PM'ing to get more information from members. Any chance you could grant me PM rights so that I can make contact and get some advice.

Thanks

I am contractor in same boat but with another scheme provider using EBT. I dont know if yours is also an EBT but if your promoter is not providing a representation with HMRC then get together and arrange an accountant experienced with HMRC to represent you guys together. Make a private group and only add people to the group after some verification. If it is an EBT and implemented properly it is 100% legal.

convict
17th January 2014, 12:49
I am contractor in same boat but with another scheme provider using EBT. I dont know if yours is also an EBT but if your promoter is not providing a representation with HMRC then get together and arrange an accountant experienced with HMRC to represent you guys together. Make a private group and only add people to the group after some verification. If it is an EBT and implemented properly it is 100% legal.


See post 1 regarding the TRM/Cherrylon/Trentburg private group etc.

DonkeyRhubarb
17th February 2014, 13:35
NTRT have prepared a template letter for people to respond to the consultation. Please alter it in your own words.

Latest News | No To Retrospective Taxation

HMRC will have to report to the Minister how many responses they got, so every letter counts !

WAZZIE
12th March 2014, 19:04
I used talent/cherrylon as a first time contractor, for around 3 years in total - and around 4 years ago.
I have had my 08/09 and 09/10 tax demands which are adding up to quite a lot of money. I have disputed both via my accountant.
this has now been bumbling along for a while, I have passed all the details I kept from my time under this scheme which wasn't much, to my accountant, who has in the last few days said the end is in sight and that I will be paying around the 20K mark..

anyone got any news on this ? is my accountancy firm selling me down the river...
if I am advised to pay up, will this leave me in credit with hmrc should any decision be made in favour of this not being a well structured ebt?

jbryce
12th March 2014, 23:04
I used talent/cherrylon as a first time contractor, for around 3 years in total - and around 4 years ago.
I have had my 08/09 and 09/10 tax demands which are adding up to quite a lot of money. I have disputed both via my accountant.
this has now been bumbling along for a while, I have passed all the details I kept from my time under this scheme which wasn't much, to my accountant, who has in the last few days said the end is in sight and that I will be paying around the 20K mark..

anyone got any news on this ? is my accountancy firm selling me down the river...
if I am advised to pay up, will this leave me in credit with hmrc should any decision be made in favour of this not being a well structured ebt?

>the end is in sight
Really? In what respect is the 'end in sight'? Is your appeal complete or have you accepted the amounts specified by HMRC?

For what it's worth, my accountant is telling me to be patient and wait.

convict
13th March 2014, 09:53
there is talk of an HMRC settlement "offer" appearing in the next 6 weeks. From what I've heard it's not really much of an offer so to speak. In reality the situation is still the same; no FTT case applicable to TRM et al.

DonkeyRhubarb
13th March 2014, 10:24
there is talk of an HMRC settlement "offer" appearing in the next 6 weeks. From what I've heard it's not really much of an offer so to speak. In reality the situation is still the same; no FTT case applicable to TRM et al.

These so-called settlement opportunities typically require payment in full including interest.

The only carrot is the exclusion of penalties, which probably don't apply to EBTs anyway.

I don't know why HMRC bother really because there's virtually no incentive to settle.

Simon john
14th March 2014, 20:24
Whats the best way to deal with this?

vern19
15th March 2014, 08:09
Whats the best way to deal with this?

Appeal in the first instance and then read the threads

tomcroll
31st March 2014, 13:45
Hi,

I received a letter last year and appealed as everyone else did.

Is the same letter valid for this year? I need to send it off soon but my accountant said that new legislation may mean it doesn't work this year.

My accountant is not that helpful though :)

convict
31st March 2014, 14:10
Hi,

I received a letter last year and appealed as everyone else did.

Is the same letter valid for this year? I need to send it off soon but my accountant said that new legislation may mean it doesn't work this year.

My accountant is not that helpful though :)

yes, reuse the 08/09 appeal/postponement for you 09/10 and/or 10/11 assessments. As per your accountant, the future (July 2014 onwards) is currently uncertain regarding appeals/payments etc.

convict
31st March 2014, 14:13
yes, reuse the 08/09 appeal/postponement for you 09/10 and/or 10/11 assessments. As per your accountant, the future (July 2014 onwards) is currently uncertain regarding appeals/payments etc.

I should also add, only you know whether or not appealing is what you really want to do and you need to understand the implications there (possible interest accrual etc.) The alternative is to pay it off.

Of course appealing/postponing is purely that; it does not resolve the matter.

davedavis
7th April 2014, 10:18
I should also add, only you know whether or not appealing is what you really want to do and you need to understand the implications there (possible interest accrual etc.) The alternative is to pay it off.

Of course appealing/postponing is purely that; it does not resolve the matter.

Has anyone actually paid the assessment and got a closure letter?

vern19
7th April 2014, 13:44
Has anyone actually paid the assessment and got a closure letter?

If you are in a position to pay, then there may be a settlement opportunity this month

sl4
7th April 2014, 13:58
If you are in a position to pay, then there may be a settlement opportunity this month

What are the benefits of settling now?

(Here is a massive bill with interest, as opposed to waiting till October when the same massive bill will appear having slightly more interest added?)

vern19
7th April 2014, 14:05
What are the benefits of settling now?

(Here is a massive bill with interest, as opposed to waiting till October when the same massive bill will appear having slightly more interest added?)

I'm not suggesting anyone should settle now, but if your exposure is small and you can get some kind of closure letter from HMRC, then it may be worth it

gingacat
22nd April 2014, 17:40
Hi, I'm also new on the site and another contractor who has received a large and unfair bill from HMRC from my time at Trentburg. Would someone be kind enough to provide advise on what to do. I will be submitting my appeal letter tomorrow as there's no way I can afford to repay this either. Will try seek tax advice also, any recommendations out there? Many Thanks

Hello

Can you please grant me PM rights?

Many Thanks

Xiomara2003
24th April 2014, 22:17
I have received in November covering 2009 and then in December for 2010 demands for tax from HMRC whilst under the umbrella of Trentburg. I thought after signing various forms and being told this was legal and accepted by HMRC to now find out that this is clearly not the case in HMRC view. What puzzles me is the amounts HMRC are claiming are more than I have earned in the 2 years.

I have now received a letter from Tax Talk providing a document stating what the next options available now that Boyle Vs HMRC lost his case. Really need some advice as have no idea what to do apart from worry!

creativity
25th April 2014, 09:08
I have received in November covering 2009 and then in December for 2010 demands for tax from HMRC whilst under the umbrella of Trentburg. I thought after signing various forms and being told this was legal and accepted by HMRC to now find out that this is clearly not the case in HMRC view. What puzzles me is the amounts HMRC are claiming are more than I have earned in the 2 years.

I have now received a letter from Tax Talk providing a document stating what the next options available now that Boyle Vs HMRC lost his case. Really need some advice as have no idea what to do apart from worry!

Don't panic. Read all the forums here and get PM rights.

eleven1130thirty
25th April 2014, 14:14
Don't panic. Read all the forums here and get PM rights.

Hi all, I am in the same boat as many of you. Please may somebody grant me PM rights.

GOLD1
25th April 2014, 16:46
I have now received a letter from Tax Talk providing a document stating what the next options available now that Boyle Vs HMRC lost his case.I don't trust what they are telling me as they left me hanging for over 1 week without a response.

Can someone advise what to do about TRM and Cherrylone?
Were they both DOTAS registered?

GOLD1
25th April 2014, 16:51
Charlie from the old Cherrylon and TRM informs me that neither were under DOTAS but not sure that matters now!

convict
25th April 2014, 17:43
^^^^
do us all a favour and edit your post and remove the letter from TT UK. No need for it to be in a public forum. HMRC read these posts too.

DonkeyRhubarb
28th April 2014, 12:14
Campaigning against accelerated payment legislation.

http://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc-scheme-enquiries/98518-finance-bill-committee-accelerated-payment-legislation.html

vargoc
1st May 2014, 15:57
Hi. New to the forum but not new to this on going issue. I was with TRM and Cherrylon 2008/09 and 2009/10 respectively and have been sent figures by HMRC. I'm not in a position to settle nor do I feel that I should but I'm a little lost as what to do. I've been working with Tax Talk and they've recently sent me a few letters that read as though things might not be going in 'our' favour. Any advice on what to do would be great and I'll continue to browse through the previous posts for advice. I've also emailed Convict as per post 1.

Is it also possible to get PM?

jrock
2nd May 2014, 08:13
Hi. New to the forum but not new to this on going issue. I was with TRM and Cherrylon 2008/09 and 2009/10 respectively and have been sent figures by HMRC. I'm not in a position to settle nor do I feel that I should but I'm a little lost as what to do. I've been working with Tax Talk and they've recently sent me a few letters that read as though things might not be going in 'our' favour. Any advice on what to do would be great and I'll continue to browse through the previous posts for advice. I've also emailed Convict as per post 1.

Is it also possible to get PM?


Hi, I'm also considering getting advise from Tax Talk. Can you recommend their services and how much does it cost?

GOLD1
2nd May 2014, 15:53
Hi, I'm also considering getting advise from Tax Talk. Can you recommend their services and how much does it cost?

I am querying tax talk on the same HMRC query but looking to take other advice to as they are not giving any concrete details.

Can I get PM access.

jbryce
2nd May 2014, 19:29
I am querying tax talk on the same HMRC query but looking to take other advice to as they are not giving any concrete details.

Can I get PM access.

Just out of interest who ARE Tax Talk? Did they have anything to do with the scheme itself? Or are they just tax specialists who have nothing whatsoever to do with EBTs?

vern19
2nd May 2014, 20:23
Just out of interest who ARE Tax Talk? Did they have anything to do with the scheme itself? Or are they just tax specialists who have nothing whatsoever to do with EBTs?

They are a firm of tax accountants. My dealings with them have been positive.

GOLD1
5th May 2014, 15:28
They are a firm of tax accountants. My dealings with them have been positive.

do you mind expanding on positive? I believe they are linked as TRM and Cherrylone share the same address as TaxTalk.

convict
5th May 2014, 16:18
the cynic inside of me says that someone saw a revenue stream and set up TTUK to try to rinse us from both directions.

All I will say is that if you do a whois on their website you'll see a name that is inextricably linked to the rest of the tangled web (which I have pieced together).

WHOIS results | Nominet (http://www.nominet.org.uk/whois/lookup?query=taxtalkuk.co.uk)
WHOIS results | Nominet (http://www.nominet.org.uk/whois/lookup?query=www.raingold.co.uk)

GOLD1
5th May 2014, 21:09
the cynic inside of me says that someone saw a revenue stream and set up TTUK to try to rinse us from both directions.

All I will say is that if you do a whois on their website you'll see a name that is inextricably linked to the rest of the tangled web (which I have pieced together).

WHOIS results | Nominet (http://www.nominet.org.uk/whois/lookup?query=taxtalkuk.co.uk)
WHOIS results | Nominet (http://www.nominet.org.uk/whois/lookup?query=www.raingold.co.uk)


TTUK advice is not Independent and it looks like they have done a deal with HMRC to get clients to settle. I will not be acting on TTUKs advice or paying them a penny for any advice! KEEP AWAY FROM THEM! 😞

vern19
5th May 2014, 21:11
TTUK advice is not Independent and it looks like they have done a deal with HMRC to get clients to settle. I will not be acting on TTUKs advice or paying them a penny for any advice! KEEP AWAY FROM THEM! 😞

What makes you think they have done a deal with HMRC?

GOLD1
5th May 2014, 21:17
What makes you think they have done a deal with HMRC?

Just a hunch from their advise to settle!

jbryce
5th May 2014, 21:55
Just a hunch from their advise to settle!

I doubt if TTUK have done a deal - HMRC won't be rewarding them for getting clients to settle; however it is possible that it gets a lot of pissed-off users away from schemes that TTUK are, allegedly, associated with. It's worth noting that whilst you are responsible for your own tax arrangements, if the schemes were run ineffectively and mismanaged and you have a tax liability as a result of that mismanagement then you may be able to give the scheme suppliers a kicking (I wouldn't hold your breath though).

There are enough ambulance chasers making money from people's fear of the unknown. For example, some ask for a % of the money, allegedly, owed to HMRC and payment up front before they will do anything.

The advice I'm getting from reputable Tax Accountants is wait and see what the legislation is, wait for the demands and take it from there.

.....and the usual - if you are in a scheme and it seems to good to be true - get out.

eek
6th May 2014, 05:35
.....and the usual - if you are in a scheme - get out.

ftfy as you really should not be in a scheme nowadays....

convict
6th May 2014, 06:35
TTUK advice is not Independent and it looks like they have done a deal with HMRC to get clients to settle. ...

What is your supporting evidence to show that they have done a deal?

cojak
6th May 2014, 07:14
What is your supporting evidence to show that they have done a deal?

He has no evidence convict, just a hunch...


Just a hunch from their advise to settle!

vern19
6th May 2014, 17:00
He has no evidence convict, just a hunch...

I think most of us have been dealing with so much miss-information over the last year or two, we are now seeing conspiracy theories everywhere.

fanta
8th May 2014, 07:06
Hi

Wanting to know where other people are up to with group represtentation etc. Can somebody here grant me PM rights please?

Thanks

GOLD1
15th May 2014, 08:44
Well I would advise not to let Tax Talk represent as they are not reliable and unprofessional as well not impartial.

Leebok
15th May 2014, 09:31
Hi all, I too have received a letter from TaxTalk which is disappointing. Their advice is to accept the "quite favourable" terms from HMRC. I am not ready to give in to HMRC and would like to know what other people are planning or who they are using for representation as I no longer want to use TaxTalk as they seem to be linked to TRM/Cherrylon through Futurelink. Any advice or recommendations would be appreciated and is there a group representation?

jbryce
15th May 2014, 10:40
Hi all, I too have received a letter from TaxTalk which is disappointing. Their advice is to accept the "quite favourable" terms from HMRC. I am not ready to give in to HMRC and would like to know what other people are planning or who they are using for representation as I no longer want to use TaxTalk as they seem to be linked to TRM/Cherrylon through Futurelink. Any advice or recommendations would be appreciated and is there a group representation?

They do appear to be linked, so I guess they just want the problem to go away. As yet, none of the tax specialists I have spoken to have advised that one should settle. Mainly because they don't know what legislation will look like, how it will be challenged, how HMRC plan to issue follower notices (and on what basis) and more importantly because some of these schemes may well be defensible.

>"quite favourable" terms from HMRC
what terms are they offering?

DonkeyRhubarb
15th May 2014, 11:27
>"quite favourable" terms from HMRC
what terms are they offering?

What I heard was all of the tax + interest. No national insurance or penalties.

Not exactly what I'd call "quite favourable".

Leebok
15th May 2014, 14:50
The proposed Settlement Terms for Clients whose only involvement in employment/loan schemes was with TRM are as follows:
1. HMRC will include only years where they currently have open inquiries and assessments, up to 08/09 inclusive. They will not seek evidence of negligent behaviour in unprotected years, so there will be no liabilities for those years included in the resolution agreement.
2. HMRC will not seek to impose penalties on liabilities for those protected years.
3. Tax will be charged in those protected years on all loans and salary received, but to achieve consistency with other arrangements HMRC will at this time make allowance for management fees deducted from payments received. They have agreed a formula to achieve this. (NB This effectively charges tax on the ‘net’ Transfer of Assets figure. In future litigation HMRC are likely to be looking towards charging the full amount paid to the person offshore).
4. HMRC will be able to consider resolution either by enquiry closure notices and/or determination of appeals or through a contract settlement.
5. Interest will apply on tax for each year from the original due date until calculations are agreed. Once agreement is reached then payment in full within 90 days will attract no further interest. In cases of hardship instalment arrangements may be agreed – these will carry forward interest as appropriate.
6. Resolution will be on the basis of a Transfer of Assets charge on the loan/advances received. There will be no further charges of tax, NIC or VAT on the individuals for those years.
7. Resolution on this basis will constitute finality of liability in respect of the TRM arrangements for TaxTalk clients up to and including 2008/09. We would point out that HMRC have indicated that this finality would apply irrespective of the result of any litigation by other parties in respect of TRM.

jbryce
15th May 2014, 15:44
It may be worth noting that TRM used foreign currency magic to, in effect, cancel the loans paid. So - it's on pretty dodgy ground after Boyle.

In the case of many EBTs the loans are still payable and, as is so often said, it is on an individual scheme basis if the scheme was effective.
Some schemes were just badly managed, handled and rubbish - others may be effective and defendable.
Which is why we have courts and appeals etc.
...for the moment at least.

DonkeyRhubarb
15th May 2014, 15:58
Which is why we have courts and appeals etc.
...for the moment at least.

No, you will always have courts.

It's just that the judge and jury will be HMRC. :rolleyes:

DotasScandal
15th May 2014, 16:20
:-)
Sorta like in the USSR in the good old days. The future surely looks bright!!!

vern19
15th May 2014, 16:23
:-)
Sorta like in the USSR in the good old days. The future surely looks bright!!!

North Korea springs to mind

MLMIJYD
16th May 2014, 14:13
The proposed Settlement Terms for Clients whose only involvement in employment/loan schemes was with TRM are as follows:
1. HMRC will include only years where they currently have open inquiries and assessments, up to 08/09 inclusive. They will not seek evidence of negligent behaviour in unprotected years, so there will be no liabilities for those years included in the resolution agreement.
2. HMRC will not seek to impose penalties on liabilities for those protected years.
3. Tax will be charged in those protected years on all loans and salary received, but to achieve consistency with other arrangements HMRC will at this time make allowance for management fees deducted from payments received. They have agreed a formula to achieve this. (NB This effectively charges tax on the ‘net’ Transfer of Assets figure. In future litigation HMRC are likely to be looking towards charging the full amount paid to the person offshore).
4. HMRC will be able to consider resolution either by enquiry closure notices and/or determination of appeals or through a contract settlement.
5. Interest will apply on tax for each year from the original due date until calculations are agreed. Once agreement is reached then payment in full within 90 days will attract no further interest. In cases of hardship instalment arrangements may be agreed – these will carry forward interest as appropriate.
6. Resolution will be on the basis of a Transfer of Assets charge on the loan/advances received. There will be no further charges of tax, NIC or VAT on the individuals for those years.
7. Resolution on this basis will constitute finality of liability in respect of the TRM arrangements for TaxTalk clients up to and including 2008/09. We would point out that HMRC have indicated that this finality would apply irrespective of the result of any litigation by other parties in respect of TRM.


Hello, I'm a newbie to this and have usually hear about this forum from my fellow contractors. I've got a similar problem but not quite but is there anyone on here that I could discuss this with who can point me in the right direction to assist? Many thanks

cojak
16th May 2014, 14:27
Contact convict. I'll ask Admin to give you PM rights as well.


For people who used The "Talent Resource Management" scheme and have either recently received the class of 08/09 invite or are already under the kosh due to an existing COP8 enquiry. Also for Cherrylon/Trentburg 2009/10 and 2010/11 tickets

Edit:For group representation queries ping me an email hmrc0809@gmail.com (this goes for anyone else on TRM/Cherrylon/Trentburg too)

I'm getting quite a few emails. If you want to speed things up when you email me, include some sort of scheme membership proof.

MLMIJYD
16th May 2014, 15:28
Contact convict. I'll ask Admin to give you PM rights as well.

Hello can you also allow me to contact Convict as I'm another in this very worrying boat and need some advice on what I can do? I called and its on-hold but don't know where to go from here?

Thanks

cojak
16th May 2014, 16:14
Hello can you also allow me to contact Convict as I'm another in this very worrying boat and need some advice on what I can do? I called and its on-hold but don't know where to go from here?

Thanks

Stop panicking and start reading. Read my post again - convict's email is hmrc0809@gmail.com

He has instructions on what to send him, so read it again.

convict
16th May 2014, 16:21
And please send scheme membership proof when emailing. I am sure you understand why

GOLD1
16th May 2014, 18:39
Hello can you also allow me to contact Convict as I'm another in this very worrying boat and need some advice on what I can do? I called and its on-hold but don't know where to go from here?

Thanks

Hi please grant me PM to as I would to talk to convict thanks.

cojak
16th May 2014, 19:39
Hi please grant me PM to as I would to talk to convict thanks.

You already have PM rights...

GOLD1
12th July 2014, 08:39
Anyone got any updates or are we all still waiting 😞

Leebok
12th July 2014, 11:55
Does anyone know how the HMRC loss of appeal yesterday against Rangers EBT affects the man on the street like us? I am hoping it is good news.

varunksingh
13th July 2014, 01:49
HMRC has two legislation they are trying to use against EBT contractors -
1) EBT loans were income - they have lost quite a few EBT cases and seems like this attack is not going to work for HMRC
2) ToAA legislation - I don't know if any ToAA case is in the pipeline. HMRC might have deliberately not taken any strong cases to court on this. They know they are weak. They have used case like Boyle to put in ToAA to get some fear in people mind.

So with Rangers case 50% battle against HMRC won.

GOLD1
13th July 2014, 07:25
Hi Convict do you think the Rangers case will help with group representation for TRM and Cherrylon etc?
Prior to the Rangers appeal loss, Tax Talk told me that HMRC would be coming with demands looking to settle etc as they still won the Boyle case.

slatt
15th July 2014, 10:36
Does TRM / Cherrylon have a DOTAS number(s) and if so does anyone know what it is?

GOLD1
15th July 2014, 11:35
No they told me that they were not registered under DOTAS

slatt
15th July 2014, 18:12
No they told me that they were not registered under DOTAS

Ok thanks Gold, who did you speak to about this and how long ago was it?

If that's right and TRM don't have a DOTAS number does anyone know where that leaves us?

I don't for a second think HMRC will ignore us, but I'm not sure how they'll get their grubby hands on our dosh. As far as i can see they don't yet have a test case they can base follower notices on..... correct me if I'm wrong though!

convict
15th July 2014, 19:28
They'll probably try Boyle and transfer of assets and issue follower notices based on that. That's not to say they are right but they'll cherry-pick what does and does not apply

jbryce
15th July 2014, 22:35
They'll probably try Boyle and transfer of assets and issue follower notices based on that. That's not to say they are right but they'll cherry-pick what does and does not apply

they'll struggle with that as Bonkers Boyle wasn't really an EBT so not sufficiently similar. They can't say "we used this in another case and it worked" there has to be similarities in the schemes as well. They will resist using Boyle because when it hits court they would fail on the scheme smilarity element. Even then, ToAA isn't as cut and dried as you think. These are my accountants words - and he's not a fan of schemes).
As soon as HMRC start losing FN cases the dynamic would change. T

convict
16th July 2014, 07:18
TRM wasn't an EBT and HMRC get to decide what applies and will likely cherry pick the bits they want. It is only when it gets to tribunal that you'll ever get to argue your case regarding ITA 2007 s720-739. In the meantime you'll be 0000s down.
All I'm saying us I wouldn't put anything past HMRC.

traveller9266
16th July 2014, 07:33
Does anyone know if Trentburg has an SRN / DOTAS number?

GOLD1
16th July 2014, 07:56
Charlie Hemsworth who is the compliance manager in their current guise informed that Cherrylon and TRM were non DOTAS registered very recently

traveller9266
16th July 2014, 08:18
Sorry for the stupid Q, but is Cherrylon, TRM and Trentburg the one and same entity?

convict
16th July 2014, 09:20
Same promoter/introducer. in the uk (futurelink) and scheme implementer in channel islands (fort group) but different scheme entities

GOLD1
16th July 2014, 13:13
Has anyone received an APN advanced payment notice yet? I hear they are imminent!

Rob79
16th July 2014, 16:14
According to the HMRC release yesterday, APN's will be launched in August on a rolling 20 month program. The usual scare tactic of issuing a list of close on 1200 reference numbers but then saying in the small print that these "may" get notices.

If you get one - and there must have been a follower notice or DOTAS registration first - you have 90 days to make representations. If you do get one and make a representation (appeals are not allowed) then you are due to pay within 30 days of the response from HMRC.

It's not clear whether you can make more than one representation and if so whether you can make them consecutively rather than concurrently.

typod
26th July 2014, 10:41
Just reading all these threads with interest and concern. I have been involved in these schemes for a number of years and a few months ago got 2 very large scary bills. I will contact convict soon and hopefully join a group that can fight this.

GOLD1
26th July 2014, 11:04
Anyone else received letter from HMRC today offering to settle to 2011?

bstar1
26th July 2014, 11:05
Yep :-/

GOLD1
26th July 2014, 11:19
Says contact us by Jan 2015. so can we assume we will not be receiving follower notices and accelerated payment notices from Aug? I guess they could be issued after Jan 2015

convict
26th July 2014, 11:46
Did the letter mention which scheme(s)? Which ones were you in?

JanuaryJones
26th July 2014, 11:56
I did too, it's a generic letter no amounts and no mention of scheme specific or even scheme name.

GOLD1
26th July 2014, 13:54
It says loan settlement opportunity to April 2011, so would cover TRM and Cherrylone for me.
It asks that you give them the loan figure and they will give you settlement amount based on interest and income tax, no NICS.

Looks like a scare tactic, what you guys think?

convict
26th July 2014, 16:03
It says loan settlement opportunity to April 2011, so would cover TRM and Cherrylone for me.
It asks that you give them the loan figure and they will give you settlement amount based on interest and income tax, no NICS.

Looks like a scare tactic, what you guys think?

It looks like they want your balls on a plate and they want you to provide the plate and do your own cutting.

Pay up? std loan schemes maybe (lots of variables though), but EBTs? definitely not.

bstar1
26th July 2014, 16:18
What may happen after Jan 015 any ideas? Does anyone think the general election may have any impact / or will they pick some random that dictates the test case for everyone else cos I'm gut sure the whoever the random is they will cave in.

retrodeath
26th July 2014, 16:43
I often wonder if they did a deal with Boyle not to appeal, knowing they were going to deem FTT wins good enough to issue FN/APN

malvolio
26th July 2014, 19:18
It looks like they want your balls on a plate and they want you to provide the plate and do your own cutting.

Pay up? std loan schemes maybe (lots of variables though), but EBTs? definitely not.
...if, as per Rangers, you can prove the loan was repayable.

varunksingh
26th July 2014, 20:41
With ToAA it does matter if it was loan or not. HMRC will not win based on ToAA but for now Boyle provided them good.

DMC777
29th July 2014, 13:13
So got my letter saturday morning, finally got through to someone on the helpline to be advised I was being chased for 08/09 which I had already paid the settlement figure?

Im confused, did anyone get asked to settle for any other years other than 08/09 as most of the threads Ive looked at only mention this year?

GOLD1
30th July 2014, 08:22
My letter said upto April 2011, did yours?

GOLD1
30th July 2014, 08:43
Why did you already settle? Just wondering thanks

DMC777
30th July 2014, 10:44
My Letter said up to 2011 as well but when I spoke to HRMC they couldnt supply me with any settlement figures for any other years and the only one they had listed was for 08/09 (Which I setlled cause it was a really small amount).

I have received no other communication from HRMC other than the setllement figure for 08/09 (last year) and this 2011 one. I find it really strange that they claim to know when I was using the scheme, say they know the ammounts paid out but cant supply me with a settlement figure. I have asked to be contacted with a settlement figure for what years they are chasing for so we will see what they have got I guess?

LandRover
30th July 2014, 11:23
My Letter said up to 2011 as well but when I spoke to HRMC they couldnt supply me with any settlement figures for any other years and the only one they had listed was for 08/09 (Which I setlled cause it was a really small amount).

I have received no other communication from HRMC other than the setllement figure for 08/09 (last year) and this 2011 one. I find it really strange that they claim to know when I was using the scheme, say they know the ammounts paid out but cant supply me with a settlement figure. I have asked to be contacted with a settlement figure for what years they are chasing for so we will see what they have got I guess?

Seems like HMRC have no records of what loan amounts are and clearly they have huge holes in their data. So the Settlement Letters are asking you to fill in the blanks for them?

If you fill in the form to give them schemes for years prior to 2011, then if you have an enquiry for just one year then aren't you giving them more information that might decide to claim tax on previously unknown years?

GOLD1
30th July 2014, 11:24
They asked me what I had been doing after 2011 in terms of tax avoidance when I rang them, I told them I have never avoided tax even from 08-11 as they haven't proved it yet so I would not be providing info!

dezze
30th July 2014, 12:28
Seems like HMRC have no records of what loan amounts are and clearly they have huge holes in their data. So the Settlement Letters are asking you to fill in the blanks for them?

If you fill in the form to give them schemes for years prior to 2011, then if you have an enquiry for just one year then aren't you giving them more information that might decide to claim tax on previously unknown years?

You mention a form that is used to provide details of years prior to 2011. Is this opened ended or from a specific year?

I suppose if other years of scheme usage haven't been enquired on, it will be down to the discovery rules that HMRC (at least try) to apply. If the 6 year applies, I understand that any year up to April 2008 that wasn't enquired on is now in the clear. If they try and apply the 20 year, then I would assume it's basically everything. In that case and there are multiple non enquired years, going for settlement would be a pretty bad option (if it wasn't already).

GOLD1
30th July 2014, 16:42
Open form

DMC777
1st August 2014, 15:24
HM Revenue & Customs: Settlement opportunity: tax on contractor loans (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/avoidance/contractorloans.htm)

Here is the website the letter directs you to.

AngryMan
3rd August 2014, 11:06
Who are people using for Raingold/FutureLink?

I've tried Matt Hall but apparently knows nothing of the schemes
Michael Perry wants fortunes
Tax Talk never get back to you and seem just to be advising to settle (perhaps to save their parent company?)

GOLD1
3rd August 2014, 12:21
I would be happy to join forces for TRM and Cherrylone

pm84280
4th August 2014, 14:32
I got a Dear John letter last week and called HMRC today.

For 2007/08 they don't currently legally have the right (from what I can gather) to collar you for 2007/08 as it's beyond the 6 year rule for a personal tax error.

But, my take is that they are looking to win more cases and have it ruled it was deliberate avoidance and hence move this scheme into the 20 year clawback.

Of course, my main concern is 2007-08.

When I go back through records TRM was charging "Insurance = £11" each month. Now, with them in liquidation and me having nothing but a huge potential tax bill with no other paperwork I assume this means nothing.

Was anyone in TRM and know what the insurance was please?

Thanks

Krung Thep
4th August 2014, 19:17
I got a Dear John letter last week and called HMRC today.

For 2007/08 they don't currently legally have the right (from what I can gather) to collar you for 2007/08 as it's beyond the 6 year rule for a personal tax error.

But, my take is that they are looking to win more cases and have it ruled it was deliberate avoidance and hence move this scheme into the 20 year clawback.

Of course, my main concern is 2007-08.

When I go back through records TRM was charging "Insurance = £11" each month. Now, with them in liquidation and me having nothing but a huge potential tax bill with no other paperwork I assume this means nothing.

Was anyone in TRM and know what the insurance was please?

Thanks

2007/08 WAS my main concern until the 6 year rule passed in April this year. What makes you think HMRC are going to implement the 20 year rule for TRM or any other scheme? Do you know something that no-one else does?

stonehenge
4th August 2014, 19:29
Michael Perry wants fortunes

I've heard this from a few people who've approached him. Some who've handed over large sums now regret it.

pm84280
4th August 2014, 20:06
2007/08 WAS my main concern until the 6 year rule passed in April this year. What makes you think HMRC are going to implement the 20 year rule for TRM or any other scheme? Do you know something that no-one else does?

Well, there in lies the key as far as I can see...

This is just from a few hours of research to arm myself with knowledge.
As I've said, it seems HMRC want to you pretend to be a Turkey and then vote for Christmas which is why they are sending requests for 2008-2009 but they did not for 2007-2008 or prior (and they admitted to me this morning they had it open but had never sent a request).

They knew what my figure was for 2008-2009 but couldn't tell me for 2007-2008.
Ultimately though, if they win cases can they legally move the goalpost and move this from "Discovery assessment for careless behaviour" (6 years) to "Discovery assessment for deliberate behaviour" which carries 20 years.

Even if they did I guess the question would then go to British or European law to prove they could do this but again, I guess only a lawyer or seriously qualified accountant could answer that question.

Anyone qualified to answer that?

AngryMan
4th August 2014, 20:30
...if, as per Rangers, you can prove the loan was repayable.

Proof would come if you started to pay it back, no?

malvolio
4th August 2014, 21:27
Well, there in lies the key as far as I can see...

This is just from a few hours of research to arm myself with knowledge.
As I've said, it seems HMRC want to you pretend to be a Turkey and then vote for Christmas which is why they are sending requests for 2008-2009 but they did not for 2007-2008 or prior (and they admitted to me this morning they had it open but had never sent a request).

They knew what my figure was for 2008-2009 but couldn't tell me for 2007-2008.
Ultimately though, if they win cases can they legally move the goalpost and move this from "Discovery assessment for careless behaviour" (6 years) to "Discovery assessment for deliberate behaviour" which carries 20 years.

Even if they did I guess the question would then go to British or European law to prove they could do this but again, I guess only a lawyer or seriously qualified accountant could answer that question.

Anyone qualified to answer that?
Rather depends - it's a subjective assessment based on what you've told them and what other people, such as the scheme providers, have told them. One an enquiry has been opened, they can go back from that point

And at the end of the day it's up to you to ensure you report stuff accurately; you're allowed to make a mistake - which is the 6 year trigger - but if it appears you are hiding something, even by omission since you're only doing what your advisors have told you to do, and only for one tax year, then that's the open door option for HMRC. And to be honest that is the real bummer here; a lot of people are in this mess for all the wrong reasons.

And it's not 20 years, that's just the usual limit. In reality it's open ended.

DMC777
5th August 2014, 08:43
Well, there in lies the key as far as I can see...

This is just from a few hours of research to arm myself with knowledge.
As I've said, it seems HMRC want to you pretend to be a Turkey and then vote for Christmas which is why they are sending requests for 2008-2009 but they did not for 2007-2008 or prior (and they admitted to me this morning they had it open but had never sent a request).

They knew what my figure was for 2008-2009 but couldn't tell me for 2007-2008.
Ultimately though, if they win cases can they legally move the goalpost and move this from "Discovery assessment for careless behaviour" (6 years) to "Discovery assessment for deliberate behaviour" which carries 20 years.

Even if they did I guess the question would then go to British or European law to prove they could do this but again, I guess only a lawyer or seriously qualified accountant could answer that question.

Anyone qualified to answer that?

This is what a lot of boards are saying, that HRMC will use any data they get for 2007/2008 to invoke the 20 year rule.

Rob79
5th August 2014, 09:29
Proof would come if you started to pay it back, no?

Not necessarily.

If a judge has said that the flow of money from the trust to you falls to be treated otherwise than as a loan, then repayment proves nothing.

If you start to repay before a judge looks at it, then if the judge thinks it's genuine, it will help. If he thinks it's a ploy to make it look more like a loan, he will ignore it.

davetza
5th August 2014, 09:53
This is what a lot of boards are saying, that HRMC will use any data they get for 2007/2008 to invoke the 20 year rule.

I am not an expert but I think it is unlikely they will go back 20 years. The 20 years is mainly for fraud cases. These were marketed schemes that people (albeit unwisely) bought into. I think it would be hard to prove fraud in any of these cases and is much more a case of negligence. Think of it as the difference between unknowingly buying a stolen car (the police will confiscate the car and you are out of pocket) and actually stealing the car yourself.

DMC777
7th August 2014, 10:47
Received my letter from HRMC today confirming that I owe nothing for 08/09, and that there are no other outstanding years relating to any contractor loan schemes.

As explained on this and other threads, contact HRMC about your letter, ask them exactly what they are chasing you for and get it confirmed in a letter without offering any additional info.

GOLD1
7th August 2014, 21:54
Received my letter from HRMC today confirming that I owe nothing for 08/09, and that there are no other outstanding years relating to any contractor loan schemes.

As explained on this and other threads, contact HRMC about your letter, ask them exactly what they are chasing you for and get it confirmed in a letter without offering any additional info.

Had you already paid 08/09 and were not with Cherrylone etc after that?

Rob79
1st September 2014, 11:14
There is a note on the AVN Venus Tax website that a First Tier Tribunal case on Cherrylon, is imminent.

HMRC TAX INVESTIGATIONS SUPPORT- VENUS TAX (http://www.venustax.co.uk/#)

(No, I don't work for AVN Venus and I'm not suggesting that they are any better or worse than anybody else in dealing with these issues).

convict
1st September 2014, 18:53
I think that was an old post and the test case it refers to is in fact the Boyle case.

Rob79
2nd September 2014, 08:09
Thanks Mr Convict.

I'll check that case for details of adviser etc.

GOLD1
11th September 2014, 09:42
Guys who do you recommend for representation?

Rob79
11th September 2014, 15:00
Guys who do you recommend for representation?

Representation for what?

I suggest you think about.

1. joining any action group specific to this scheme.
2. contacting HMRC via that group, or somebody at 3 below, or independently about where a settlement might be
3. get some professional help (accountant/tax specialist) with suitable knowledge.

LisaContractorUmbrella
12th September 2014, 07:01
I agree with Rob79 - if you are intending to fight HMRC it's going to be very expensive so working with others will reduce the cost and you will need an experienced professional guiding you - check out the lawyers that have been on the winning side in previous tax cases

convict
12th September 2014, 14:18
A better idea would be to ask on the private forum where ex TRM/CL/TB scheme users hang out...

GOLD1
13th September 2014, 15:11
Is anyone managing an action group for TRM and Cherrylone?

GOLD1
13th September 2014, 15:16
A better idea would be to ask on the private forum where ex TRM/CL/TB scheme users hang out...

Sorry how do I get to that private forum?

convict
13th September 2014, 15:44
Read the first post in this thread

typod
4th November 2014, 13:20
Hi. Is there a group going for this company? I have sent an email to the address in the first post and not heard anything yet.

convict
4th November 2014, 20:20
Hi. Is there a group going for this company? I have sent an email to the address in the first post and not heard anything yet.

Nothing received. Try again

typod
4th November 2014, 20:36
Thanks. I have just resent.

247contractor
10th November 2014, 21:37
Hi Convict I have also just sent you an email. Thanks

xtrail
5th December 2014, 07:40
I've had a request for bank statements from the Inland Revenue for 2009/2010 despite sending them a P45 showing that I didn't work through cherrylon during 2009/2010. I actually never used Cherrylon and finished using TRM in April 2009.

Has anybody send Inland Revenue bank statements ? Should I do this?

I'm using QDOS tax lawyer but waiting for advice from them.

Vladioff
8th January 2015, 13:45
Hi,

I have recently joined the forum. I was with TRM for a few years and in the same boat as most here, so would appreciate some help and advice from the folks who are close to this issue. Many thanks

administrator
8th January 2015, 15:30
Hi,

I have recently joined the forum. I was with TRM for a few years and in the same boat as most here, so would appreciate some help and advice from the folks who are close to this issue. Many thanks

Done!

orangefive
9th January 2015, 14:11
requested access via email.

administrator
9th January 2015, 15:08
requested access via email.

You now have PM access.

DG705
23rd January 2015, 13:25
Hi All,

Another ex Talent & Cherrylon. Anyone know what is happening regarding this? Had my settlement letter sometime ago

Thanks

Daz

davieloco
23rd January 2015, 13:54
Hi All,

Another ex Talent & Cherrylon. Anyone know what is happening regarding this? Had my settlement letter sometime ago

Thanks

Daz

Hi Daz,

There is a private group for TRM/Cherryloners, ask convict to join, if you check the first post on this thread there is some info on how to do it

DL

DG705
24th January 2015, 09:06
Hi Daz,

There is a private group for TRM/Cherryloners, ask convict to join, if you check the first post on this thread there is some info on how to do it

DL

Thanks Davie, have emailed him

Appreciated :happy

convict
26th May 2015, 10:40
Bumping for those who are interested

webberg
19th June 2015, 13:17
It has come to my attention that the agent dealing with the TRM/Cherrylon series of schemes has been contacting former members to present a number of choices moving forward.

These include;

- Settling via the CLSO
- Continuing to litigation

The letter also discusses the "do nothing" option.

Bearing in mind that I am a fee earning tax professional with a connection to another initiative here and as such might be considered to be prejudiced, it is my OPINION that the letter I have seen is inaccurate in at least one respect.

If you receive a letter discuss it with a suitable professional adviser BEFORE making any decision.

shanni10
19th June 2015, 18:56
Hi Convict, I just emailed you (IS) regarding my case

webberg
29th September 2015, 08:10
There is a message on the webpage for Taxtalk indicating that they filed for voluntary liquidation on 25th September.

We're aware that they had the rump of a fighting fund supporting them for a long while but that has obviously now been exhausted.

The schemes they were looking after are arguably close to the Boyle/Sandfield situation although Taxtalk spoke with a QC who found a fair number of distinguishing features and I think I'd agree with most of them. Unfortunately the differences may not be enough to take a Court action (depends on your attitude to risk) but I think are enough to make a decent argument.

If you were in any of the schemes being looked after there AND you have not elected to settle, you should get some advice.

webberg
30th September 2015, 13:32
It would appear that in some cases, the demise of Taxtalk has led to some of their clients who expressed an interest in settling, being in receipt of HMRC calculations only in the last few days.

With a deadline for ACCEPTANCE of TODAY - that leaves little time to consider the options.

If this is you.

1. CALL HMRC as soon as you can, explain the circumstances and ask for an extension.

2. check the calculation carefully (as it appears that HMRC has not processed data it has been given)

3. if in doubt, get advice.

chamsuresh
28th February 2018, 11:37
And please send scheme membership proof when emailing. I am sure you understand why

Hello,

I have a similar issue for tax year 08/09 09/10. My scheme was called Payscheme plus. PAYE salary was paid from TRM and Loan facility was provided by Redding finance.

Regards,
Chamu

RSB
8th March 2018, 19:54
please can I request rights to be able to send personal messages?

pateen
10th June 2018, 17:22
Does anybidy have contact details for talent.
I was with them back ine 2009 & 2010.

P

webberg
10th June 2018, 18:17
Does anybidy have contact details for talent.
I was with them back ine 2009 & 2010.

P

They are long gone.

TT Intelligence seems to be the route to them.

pateen
11th June 2018, 08:57
They are long gone.

TT Intelligence seems to be the route to them.

Thanks Webberg.

I presume its these guys
http://ww w.tt-intelligence.co.uk/ - TT Intelligence - Home

webberg
11th June 2018, 09:15
Thanks Webberg.

I presume its these guys
TT Intelligence - Home (http://ww w.tt-intelligence.co.uk/)

Probably.

Used to be Tax Talk (which I think went pop).

They were looking after a lot of TRM, Trentbury, Cherrylon people.

Just be careful with those schemes as I think they used foreign currency and that brings a number of complications.

webberg
12th June 2018, 11:45
I've been asked to explain a little more about the implications of foreign currency loans being involved in structures.

The following is not necessarily therefore solely for the TRM range of schemes, but would apply to others which used a similar mechanism.

The claim made by scheme promoters is that sterling went to a trust where it was converted into something else (we'll use Zim $) and loaned to you. At the same time, you would have requested that the trust convert the Zim $ back to sterling and remit the loan in sterling.

The Zim $ loan was then depreciating due to the softness of that currency. Therefore £100 was worth say Zim $1m at the outset of the loan, but a year or so later, perhaps Zim $1m was worth £10. (I exaggerate for effect).

Some schemes went further and swapped currencies at intervals, resulting in perhaps a faster depreciation.

At some point, you are asked for £10 to "repay" the loan, or the loan is written off as being uneconomic to collect.

HMRC tried to cover this situation in their legislation on the loan charge. In particular they claim:

1. It is necessary to start with the sterling value of the payment at the time it was made.
2. Depreciation is not a payment in money of the loan and can be ignored.
3. The repayment at a lower sterling value may reduce the original sterling value by the amount repaid in sterling.
4. The write off can be ignored.

The underlying assumption here is that the loan was - at some point - actually in Zim $. There is a tax case (Boyle) which was heard at the FTT and involved a scheme called Sandfield.

The same mechanism was claimed to have been used. HMRC attacked it on the grounds that the forex transactions had not taken place and that the loans were never at any time in non sterling currency. The Judge agreed. (And came close to saying that there was fraud involved).

So, if the currency loan existed and has been legally written off, does the loan charge legislation still bite?

If the argument is that the loan was never in foreign currency and was always in sterling, then would a legal write off mean that the loan did not exist at the trigger date in March 2016?

I don't know.

It seems odd though that we have legislation that seems to acknowledge that currency loans exist and an HMRC argument in Court that they do not.

I'm sure that the "specific circumstances" argument will be rolled out to distinguish the positions.

I'm equally sure that in the cases I've examined, the existence or otherwise of non sterling funds is of somewhat debatable provenance. I'm not saying that I've seen all such schemes nor that I have detailed bank statements from lenders which show that they never had Zim $ (in this instance), but equally I have no proof otherwise.

Let the games begin.

pateen
26th June 2018, 14:27
I guess more importantly, is this depreciating ccy scheme covered by Big Group and are the arguments as strong as say the Rangers case for these scheme types?

webberg
26th June 2018, 14:59
I guess more importantly, is this depreciating ccy scheme covered by Big Group and are the arguments as strong as say the Rangers case for these scheme types?

Yes it's part of Big group.

As to strength, we will explain what we do and you have to make a judgement. We believe we have a case. Call us.

TooBlue
18th August 2018, 00:49
Hi, I have also received the loan charge letter and need get my head around this whole messy situation. I was with talent from 2003-2006. In 2008 I received a letter saying that the loans had been transferred to Redding Capital Finance and asking for repayment I think ( I can’t find any of this paperwork now) After lots of worrying and an email from redding@impactmarmerting I was told nothing was changing and if I repaid the loans there would likely be tax implications. Best thing was to let them be.

I’m unsure what type of loans they were as I don’t have any of the loan Contracts. From memory of the redding letter I seem to remember loans being for 30k, £30k and k20 something. I also have an unanswered email asking why I had received requests to repay loans for years 2007- 8 when I left contracting at the end of 2006, can anyone tell me what kind of loan they would have been. My payslips say loan amount 30k and dividend from loan. Thank you and apologies if I’m going over old ground I’ve been reading the forum posts for days now and couldn’t see anything much specific about talent now other than LaurieDrivers post and wasn’t sure if it was relevant to my circumstances. Thank you all for your posts it crazy how many people this is affecting. I have also sent a sar request to Hmrc but have since found my payslips so do have a pretty good idea of at least the period and a way of working out what I’m in for.

davedavis
18th August 2018, 19:09
Hi, I have also received the loan charge letter and need get my head around this whole messy situation. I was with talent from 2003-2006. In 2008 I received a letter saying that the loans had been transferred to Redding Capital Finance and asking for repayment I think ( I can’t find any of this paperwork now) After lots of worrying and an email from redding@impactmarmerting I was told nothing was changing and if I repaid the loans there would likely be tax implications. Best thing was to let them be.

I’m unsure what type of loans they were as I don’t have any of the loan Contracts. From memory of the redding letter I seem to remember loans being for 30k, £30k and k20 something. I also have an unanswered email asking why I had received requests to repay loans for years 2007- 8 when I left contracting at the end of 2006, can anyone tell me what kind of loan they would have been. My payslips say loan amount 30k and dividend from loan. Thank you and apologies if I’m going over old ground I’ve been reading the forum posts for days now and couldn’t see anything much specific about talent now other than LaurieDrivers post and wasn’t sure if it was relevant to my circumstances. Thank you all for your posts it crazy how many people this is affecting. I have also sent a sar request to Hmrc but have since found my payslips so do have a pretty good idea of at least the period and a way of working out what I’m in for.
In the case of TRM, the auditor/liquidator passed on all loan amounts to HMRC so they should have the correct numbers

TooBlue
19th August 2018, 00:30
In the case of TRM, the auditor/liquidator passed on all loan amounts to HMRC so they should have the correct numbers

Thank you Davedavis.

Does anyone know if I was to contact Hmrc to talk about settling, once they have given me a figure do I still have to settle or can I then decide to go for the loan charge?

Thanks,
TooBlue.

webberg
19th August 2018, 10:46
Thank you Davedavis.

Does anyone know if I was to contact Hmrc to talk about settling, once they have given me a figure do I still have to settle or can I then decide to go for the loan charge?

Thanks,
TooBlue.

Settlement is voluntary. You can initiate discussions with HMRC (you should do that) and get to a point where the numbers are agreed and HMRC send you a contract.

Until you sign that contract you are not committed.

Given the delays HMRC currently admit to between exchanges (8 weeks) and the actual situation (12 weeks), starting now you are unlikely to get a contract before Christmas.

As a caveat, unless you agree a position BEFORE 5th April 2019, the loan charge will apply. HMRC do not guarantee that they have the resources to process all applications before then! If therefore you are not agreed by then, even if it's not your fault, the loan charge arrives.

You will need to push HMRC as hard as you can.

Snpost
20th August 2018, 12:26
Hi, i just received a letter from HMRC regarding contractor Loans and i am guessing its because i worked through
Talent Resources Ltd 15 years ago, but i don't know yet as i have replied to their letter asking for more information.

HMRC recommend you reply via their email address cl.resolution@hmrc.gsi.gov.uk but all you get is an auto reply pointing out the information they require, which i find a little bullish. I want to know what they have on me first so i have requested via post they give me more information but until i receive that information i am trawling the internet and forums for as much information as i can get so i can be somewhat prepared.

I am looking for current information, i have found tons of stuff relating to the class of 08/09 / COP8 enquiry which i am unsure is still current.

I have had a dig around in my old emails and have found some relevant info regarding Talent & Lutea, a phone number i have for Lutea and a guy who i use to deal with is still current some 15 yrs later, and is still registered to the guy i use to deal with, except its now Cambian Group Plc, 01534 703211, Andy Hicks.

I have left a voice mail for him but i think i said to much regarding Talent, so i will wait for a call back.

Any help or advice is more than appreciated,

Thanks in advance

**UPDATE**

Well it seems Mr Andrew Hicks is one of the good guys, he called me back and gave me all the information i needed. he works for Lutea Limited who were the Trustees for the EBT Scheme and has advised that

info@venturis-trustees.com
Office 1, First Floor,
1, 6th of September Str,
Sofia 1000, Bulgaria,

are now the company holding the baby regarding said Scheme.


___

Hello LaurieDriver, do you recall the scheme name as Talent Resource were the employers and trustees I have been calling do not recognise Payscheme+

Snpost
20th August 2018, 12:49
Hi,

Does anyone recall the trust name and who is currently managing it.

TooBlue
20th August 2018, 14:36
___

Hello LaurieDriver, do you recall the scheme name as Talent Resource were the employers and trustees I have been calling do not recognise Payscheme+

There was Paysheme Ltd, Futurelink Ltd and Talent Holdings Ltd. I have all of the original paperwork sent to me from Talent if you need it prior to taking them up on their services in 2003.

LaurieDriver
20th August 2018, 14:43
Hi, i would appreciate any information you maybe able to forward. I am trying to find a way of getting details for Talent as i have received a letter from HMRC regarding Loans from 15+ years ago !!! WTF !!! Contacted some the guys whom i worked with back then and some of them got hit 6 yrs ago costing upwards of £90K :/


There was Paysheme Ltd, Futurelink Ltd and Talent Holdings Ltd. I have all of the original paperwork sent to me from Talent if you need it prior to taking them up on their services in 2003.

LaurieDriver
20th August 2018, 14:45
Sorry for the delay in responding but i been doing a lot of panic in - I have no to little information and am too trying to collate as much documentation / help as possible..


___

Hello LaurieDriver, do you recall the scheme name as Talent Resource were the employers and trustees I have been calling do not recognise Payscheme+

TooBlue
20th August 2018, 18:13
I haven't got any up to date info and think that my only option is to ask HMRC what loan info they have on me. I know that Redding Finance sent me details of 3 loans in 2008 requesting repayment. 1 of them was for year 07 -08 when I had stopped working for Talent at end 2006! I asked Redding to explain how they had this loan that I hadn't signed up for and heard nothing. HMRC might have incorrect info but it sounds like its my only option.

LaurieDriver
20th August 2018, 18:50
I went to the HMRC website today (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/hmrc-subject-access-request) and applied for a SAR (Make a subject access request to HMRC) to find out what they have on me.

I made this decision from the good advice i have received over the last day or two from this forum, i guess its the only way you can find out what they know about you if you don't have the documentation, takes upto 28 days according to their website.

Good luck

PS~ Have you thought about joining The Loan Charge Action Group? another great bit of advice from this forum (https://www.hmrcloancharge.info)



I haven't got any up to date info and think that my only option is to ask HMRC what loan info they have on me. I know that Redding Finance sent me details of 3 loans in 2008 requesting repayment. 1 of them was for year 07 -08 when I had stopped working for Talent at end 2006! I asked Redding to explain how they had this loan that I hadn't signed up for and heard nothing. HMRC might have incorrect info but it sounds like its my only option.

Snpost
20th August 2018, 23:34
Has anyone dealt with TT Intelligence - Tax Planning for Individuals and Businesses (http://www.tt-intelligence.co.uk/our-services/tax-planning?) Are they same guys that ran Talent?

piebaps
21st August 2018, 08:38
Can't say for sure but the website has all the hallmarks. The "about us" section where you "meet the team" has no names in it and there is no mention of their staff being professionally qualified or the firm being part of a recognized professional body (CIOT or FCA etc). These aren't hard and fast but for me, they'd be deal breakers.

Get onto UK company house and do some searching for directors and shareholders https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/ and see who they all have in common.

webberg
21st August 2018, 08:59
Has anyone dealt with TT Intelligence - Tax Planning for Individuals and Businesses (http://www.tt-intelligence.co.uk/our-services/tax-planning?) Are they same guys that ran Talent?

Yes.

passerby
21st August 2018, 11:44
I went to the HMRC website today (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/hmrc-subject-access-request) and applied for a SAR (Make a subject access request to HMRC) to find out what they have on me.

I made this decision from the good advice i have received over the last day or two from this forum, i guess its the only way you can find out what they know about you if you don't have the documentation, takes upto 28 days according to their website.

Good luck

PS~ Have you thought about joining The Loan Charge Action Group? another great bit of advice from this forum (https://www.hmrcloancharge.info)

I was contemplating this but is there any downside to it? like risking antagonising HMRC further.

LaurieDriver
21st August 2018, 12:57
A work colleague who was in our situation some 6 yrs ago, Worked through Talent and used TT-Intelligence to negotiate with HMRC, TT-Intelligence advised almost immediately for him to Settle. Cost him £90K and today he is still paying off said amount, also he wished he had took other advice and on reflection wished he had not taken their advice.

Be wary, i have, since receiving my letter, tried to connect all these companies and people through companies house and other sites but they are so intrenched in the way they set their companies up. Mainly in Jersey and now in Bulgaria, that it is virtually impossible to get to them, hence why HMRC is taking the easy option and coming after us.

TOTAL TAX INTELLIGENCE LIMITED
Company number 06206130

1 active person with significant control / 0 active statements

Mr James Jonathan Moss ACTIVE

Correspondence address
Monaco House, Monaco Works, Station Road, Kings Langley, Hertfordshire, England, WD4 8LQ
Notified on
6 April 2016
Date of birth
October 1981
Nationality
British
Nature of control
Ownership of shares – 75% or more as a member of a firm
Country of residence
England

It is apparent from my research that Mr James Jonathan Moss has been in cahootz with Mr Adam Paul Becker who ran Tax Talk who both are Directors of Futurelink Group Ltd, they are coming across as people who set up and then close down companies as and when it suits them - https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/06206202-horizon-rcs-limited Lots of information here regarding the companies they are involved with currently, Dissolved & Liquidated.

Seems like they set up a company to be tax efficient for us guys, charge us accordingly, when they have a fat bank account close the company taking the money, set up another company to advise, charge us for the benefit, get a fat bank account, close the company taking the money, set up a different company etc etc the loop goes on..


Has anyone dealt with TT Intelligence - Tax Planning for Individuals and Businesses (http://www.tt-intelligence.co.uk/our-services/tax-planning?) Are they same guys that ran Talent?

ContractorSeven
21st August 2018, 15:43
It is apparent from my research that Mr James Jonathan Moss has been in cahootz with Mr Adam Paul Becker who ran Tax Talk who both are Directors of Futurelink Group Ltd, they are coming across as people who set up and then close down companies as and when it suits them -

It seems it's a Moss family business. My contact at TRM was Craig Moss, and it appears their dad (presumably, given Anthony Moss' date of birth) is on it too.

webberg
21st August 2018, 17:00
I was contemplating this but is there any downside to it? like risking antagonising HMRC further.

No downside.

HMRC does not operate on the basis of personal vendetta or treat you any differently for exercising your rights.

Sky Rocket
21st August 2018, 18:33
In the case of TRM, the auditor/liquidator passed on all loan amounts to HMRC so they should have the correct numbers

Do you know when this was? When I received my first letter from HMRC some years back they were wildly guessing the amounts.

Snpost
21st August 2018, 22:02
This is how it was sold


https://web.archive.org/web/20090221125624/http://payschemeplus.com/en/Home.aspx