Post dated contract agreement

[londoner]

I signed a contract with an agent before starting with the client. It was a one page document with contract details with start and end dates of contract. I've been sent a terms of engagement document (with contract details) 5 months later and being asked to sign the document and the original contract I signed 5 months ago with the same start and end dates. The terms of engagement/ agreement is post dated to this month. I must add, I've been sent on few occasions an opt out agreement which I declined.

I'm assuming I'll have to sign the terms of engagement doc even if it's overdue. I don't understand why they left it so late. Should I add an effective date clause in the agreement dating when I started the contract before signing?

Please advise.

[northernladuk]

Can't have been much of a contract on one page! Why did you start a gig without getting the full document reviewed would be my first question. Second is have you had the full one reviewed now you have it. You are gonna be screwed if it doesn't pass IR35 check and puts you firmly inside and you are not accounting for it that is for sure.

Forget opt out/in. It's usless. You have started so you are opted in and there is nothing they can do about it. Opt out has to be done before introduction and (arguably) before you start. You are well past that so if they ask you about opt out again, point that out and tell them to stop bothering you.

The fact you have started means you have agreed to them anyway to be honest although there could be an argument that you never saw them to agree them but if it came down to a legal case I am sure they will argue by starting you agreed to the standard terms of the agent even if you haven't seen them. You won't get any changes made if you don't like it at this late stage anyway so don't have much of a leg to stand on. I would think it is going to make one iota of difference if you sign now or not. The effective date is when you started working regardless of what is on the paper I think anyway.

I have to point it out, you mention why did they leave it so late. Wrong view. Why on earth did you start work without it or do something about getting it earlier? Refusing to turn up next week will have got it in your inbox in minutes. It is your responsibility to make sure you are covered and everything is agreed before you start. Not them. The contract is to make sure you are covered as much as them so it was very irresponsible of you not to chase it hard. As I say, if the terms now mean that you are inside IR35, no sub clause or MOO problems then you are right up tulip creek and will have to change your accounting methods else face a lot of problems in an investigation. If you had pushed for it early you could have got that one sorted.

Get it reviewed by QDOS and see how much trouble you are in first IMO.

[londoner]

Can't have been much of a contract on one page! Why did you start a gig without getting the full document reviewed would be my first question. Second is have you had the full one reviewed now you have it. You are gonna be screwed if it doesn't pass IR35 check and puts you firmly inside and you are not accounting for it that is for sure.

Forget opt out/in. It's usless. You have started so you are opted in and there is nothing they can do about it. Opt out has to be done before introduction and (arguably) before you start. You are well past that so if they ask you about opt out again, point that out and tell them to stop bothering you.

The fact you have started means you have agreed to them anyway to be honest although there could be an argument that you never saw them to agree them but if it came down to a legal case I am sure they will argue by starting you agreed to the standard terms of the agent even if you haven't seen them. You won't get any changes made if you don't like it at this late stage anyway so don't have much of a leg to stand on. I would think it is going to make one iota of difference if you sign now or not. The effective date is when you started working regardless of what is on the paper I think anyway.

I have to point it out, you mention why did they leave it so late. Wrong view. Why on earth did you start work without it or do something about getting it earlier? Refusing to turn up next week will have got it in your inbox in minutes. It is your responsibility to make sure you are covered and everything is agreed before you start. Not them. The contract is to make sure you are covered as much as them so it was very irresponsible of you not to chase it hard. As I say, if the terms now mean that you are inside IR35, no sub clause or MOO problems then you are right up tulip creek and will have to change your accounting methods else face a lot of problems in an investigation. If you had pushed for it early you could have got that one sorted.

Get it reviewed by QDOS and see how much trouble you are in first IMO.

Thanks for your advice.

I've read through the terms and there doesn't seem to be anything which gives cause for concern. Except for one aspect where it says the agency has a right to alter the hourly rate.
Not sure in what context they would apply that once the rate has been agreed.
Although I'll definitely get it reviewed by qdos.

The problem lies in my naivety as a first time contractor. Also I've legitimately earned my money inline with what I signed, so what can they do in the contract to make things difficult?

[SueEllen]

Just one word of advice - never back date a contract when you sign it as it come back to bite you on the behind.

[northernladuk]

Thanks for your advice.

I've read through the terms and there doesn't seem to be anything which gives cause for concern. Except for one aspect where it says the agency has a right to alter the hourly rate.
Not sure in what context they would apply that once the rate has been agreed.

Whenever they want if that is what they have put. That is a bit of an eye opener that is. So they have free reign to drop your rate 50 quid when they fancy it? And that isn't of grave concern to you?

Although I'll definitely get it reviewed by qdos.

The problem lies in my naivety as a first time contractor. Also I've legitimately earned my money inline with what I signed, so what can they do in the contract to make things difficult?

It's called IR35. It is the difference between you having to pay yourself PAYE or use the benefits of a LTD company. Do you have a LTD or are you through a brolly? The fact you haven't mentioned it I am assuming you are not through a brolly.

Read the first timers guides about IR35 and then tell me how the wording of the contract could make things difficult for you.

[Wanderer]

I'm assuming I'll have to sign the terms of engagement doc even if it's overdue. I don't understand why they left it so late. Should I add an effective date clause in the agreement dating when I started the contract before signing?

My gut feeling is that you don't have very much to gain by signing the agreement. I'd just fob them off if I could.

Definitely get it reviewed before you accept it though, since you have already started work without getting the contract you are in a fairly good position to negotiate. If there is something in there that you don't like (eg, restraint of trade) than you can just reject the document as a contract amendment and there isn't really much the agency can do except terminate the contract (which is unlikely).

[Ignis Fatuus]

Just one word of advice - never back date a contract when you sign it as it come back to bite you on the behind.

PMFJI but isn't he being asked to sign today (and presumably date "as of today") a contract which itself has a start date some 5 months ago? What's the problem with that? He is not claiming to have signed 5 months ago, he is merely signoing today to say that he agrees about something that started 5 months ago.

But I may be wrong.

[northernladuk]

PMFJI but isn't he being asked to sign today (and presumably date "as of today") a contract which itself has a start date some 5 months ago? What's the problem with that? He is not claiming to have signed 5 months ago, he is merely signoing today to say that he agrees about something that started 5 months ago.

But I may be wrong.

That is what I though. He accepted the terms by starting so signing late makes little difference. If he was signing something like an insurance doc and gaining benefit when there was none then yes that is fraud. To clear up paperwork covering terms he has already been working to isn't fraudulent or anything I shouldn't think.