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Neofit
19th March 2013, 20:46
what is best solution is such situation:
-have double Ukrainian and German citizenship
-found a customer in UK, we discussing the terms of contract
-will be more than 183 days out of Germany, probably spending the rest of time between UK and Ukraine, travelling back and forth (programmers are here and there and I should work with both teams)

I think, these are good prerequisites to save a lot of taxes, but this looks too complicated to me.
Would you suggest some accountant who is good in such "expat" cases?

Or may be a good umbrella company understanding this international tax chaos?

BlasterBates
19th March 2013, 21:39
It looks like there maybe tax implications in all three countries. Basically you tax yourself where you do the work. If you split your time equally between the Ukraine and UK then really you´ll be expected to tax in both of those countries. That´s the safe way to do it. You can try and get it taxed in one of those countries but then the other country will try and come after you.

Just because you are not 183 days in Germany doesn´t mean to say you´re not tax resident. If your family is there you will be expected declare your income. They will respect the double taxation treaties and may or may not request additional tax to be paid.

It´s complicated and requires advice in all three countries, it is a can of worms My advice would be to be "paranoid", pay tax on the money you earn in the Ukraine in the Ukraine, pay tax in the UK on money you earn in the UK and be very honest with the German tax authorities, as to whether you are there and submit a tax return.

stek
20th March 2013, 06:55
And AIUI neither Germany nor Ukraine allow dual citizenship so you may have lost one or the other without knowing it.

TheFaQQer
20th March 2013, 09:54
And AIUI neither Germany nor Ukraine allow dual citizenship so you may have lost one or the other without knowing it.

Don't know about Ukraine, but Germany does.

Linky (http://www.ehow.co.uk/about_6192682_german-regulations-dual-citizenship.html)

LisaContractorUmbrella
20th March 2013, 10:01
Fairly specific rules for Germany as I understand it Contracting in Germany - SJD Accountancy (http://www.sjdaccountancy.com/about/ourservices/contracting_germany.html)

stek
20th March 2013, 10:02
Don't know about Ukraine, but Germany does.

Linky (http://www.ehow.co.uk/about_6192682_german-regulations-dual-citizenship.html)

Surely you mean doesn't! There are exceptions such as another EU citizenship or that of a parent but mostly it's a no.

Pretty sure cos my partner worked and lived in Germany and was on the residency/citizen track and told in no uncertain terms the she'd have to give up her Russian passport for a German one. Not many former Sovs would do that! Her gramps would disown her..

stek
20th March 2013, 10:03
Here we are

Allowed under following circumstances:

If he/she is an EU or Swiss citizen during naturalization.
If he/she is a refugee and holds a 1951 travel document during naturalization.
where a child born to German parents acquires another citizenship at birth (e.g. based on place of birth, or descent from one parent)
where a naturalized German citizen, or a child born to non-German parents (non-EU or Swiss) in Germany, request and obtain a permission to keep his foreign nationality.
where a German citizen acquires a foreign nationality with the permission of the German government (e.g. existing relative ties or property in Germany or in the other country or if the occupation abroad requires domestic citizenship for execution)

Neofit
20th March 2013, 10:38
And AIUI neither Germany nor Ukraine allow dual citizenship so you may have lost one or the other without knowing it.

First of all, many thanks for your attention to this dual citizenship thing. IN GENERAL you are right, it is not allowed on both sides. Nevertheless, the German law contains a number of exceptions (and in the past there was a lot of these exceptions), and I am one of these exceptions. Ukraine just does not care about this, I have official confirmation from Ukrainian embassy.

I think, the situation with taxes in my case is quite similar, I mean almost everybody knows the GENERAL rules, but "the devil is in the details" and I need somebody who knows such details (accountant?)

My situation is not so exceptional, I think UK citizens living, let say in Switzerland and having contract in, let say, Holland, are in the very similar situation.

istvan
20th March 2013, 10:43
And AIUI neither Germany nor Ukraine allow dual citizenship so you may have lost one or the other without knowing it.

I second that. Make sure you keep the German citizenship though :D

Neofit
20th March 2013, 12:13
is an offshore umbrella company a good idea in my case?

I know, there are discussions about how legal these companies are, but may be in my particular case this make sense?

garnet
21st March 2013, 13:42
I know this may sound very simplistic (and probably not right).

If you are a person you are liable for personal tax in the country you reside (i.e. spend >183 days/year)
In theory if you spend 4 months in 3 different countries per year you should not pay any taxes anywhere. I know in reality this is not the case. Anyone care to explain why not.

If you are a company, your company is tax liable in the country of registration.

BlasterBates
21st March 2013, 14:23
It is far more complicated than the 183 day, which is why contractors get into hot water

Generally, if you are travelling regularly between several countries one of these countries will be your main tax residence even if you spend less than 183 days there per year.

Secondly you are generally liable for tax for income sourced in a country even if it is not your main tax residence. An example you live in the UK but have a 4 month contract in Germany. The contract earnings are taxed in Germany but you declare it in the UK and the UK tax authorities take into account the German tax paid. In another example if you live in the UK but buy a house in a Spain and let it, it will be taxed in Spain and again you declare it in the UK.

istvan
21st March 2013, 14:36
You definitely need to talk to an accountant well versed in international taxation. Do not rely on making your decisions based on advise in this forum. As for me I take no responsibility for my advise. :D

TheFaQQer
21st March 2013, 16:16
You definitely need to talk to an accountant well versed in international taxation. Do not rely on making your decisions based on advise in this forum. As for me I take no responsibility for my advise. :D

:spel advice

istvan
22nd March 2013, 08:24
is an offshore umbrella company a good idea in my case?

I know, there are discussions about how legal these companies are, but may be in my particular case this make sense?

I believe the HMRC is cracking down on those... :freaky: The best recommendation I could give you is to find a good accountant.