EU vs Microsoft

[mcquiggd]

Is there really any point to all this...? Fining a company for including a media player with it OS (something which most users want).

Personally I use VLC as it supports more file formats without having to install potentially dodgy codec packs... and I have Winamp as the sound quality is better, and Opera and Firefox for testing Web sites - nothing in any version of Windows I've used has ever prevented me from installing such programs which are readily available.

The Quicktime format hasn't exactly died out, nor has Flash or Real Media, and like all programs they try to grab file associations as a way to tell other software to 'butt out'....

The EU now says its worried about Digital Rights Management - but have been calling on technology companies to crack down on piracy!

All this is doing is costing millions. Pointless.

It seems the EU isn't interested in competition - hence the Common Argicultural Policy - it's just anti-American.

[The Lone Gunman]

Not much of an MS fan but I do feel this is a witch hunt.

We don't hear the EU screaming that car ECU code should be available so that other manufacturers can make replacement parts or so that independant garages can run the diagnostics without proprietory software. etc.

[snaw]

Maybe it's meant more as a warning shot across the MS bows ... they are over-aggresive when it comes to packaging stuff in their software for free, with the sole intent of killing off any potential competitors. Personally I'm all for it cause IMHO MS killed innovation in a lot of IT by using this tactic, and they'll happily keep doing it unless stuff likes this stops them in their tracks.

[The Lone Gunman]

Maybe it's meant more as a warning shot across the MS bows ... they are over-aggresive when it comes to packaging stuff in their software for free, with the sole intent of killing off any potential competitors. Personally I'm all for it cause IMHO MS killed innovation in a lot of IT by using this tactic, and they'll happily keep doing it unless stuff likes this stops them in their tracks.

How do you know their intent? Could their actions not be regarded as providing a box that performs all the basic function their market requires?
How about all the other corporations that have killed off competition by hijacking the industry standard?
I don't believe MS are any worse than any other corporation and at least 3rd party applications or add on boards will run on their kit.
Why aren't apple in the doc for iTunes or Sony for the memory stick? There are so many examples.

[snaw]

How do you know their intent? Could their actions not be regarded as providing a box that performs all the basic function their market requires?
How about all the other corporations that have killed off competition by hijacking the industry standard?
I don't believe MS are any worse than any other corporation and at least 3rd party applications or add on boards will run on their kit.
Why aren't apple in the doc for iTunes or Sony for the memory stick? There are so many examples.

I don't, just my opinion on them. They're acting as most other company would act, which is to maximise thier share value by whatever legal means possible. That's why we need independent regulators to occasionally stop companies doing exactly the things you say, microsft get it more than most because they have a longer history of doing this kind of stuff.

I accept it's a perfectly natural thing for them to do, I just personally detest them for that very reason, IT used to be a lot more interesteng until MS killed off innovation in lot's of areas.

[The Lone Gunman]

I don't, just my opinion on them. They're acting as most other company would act, which is to maximise thier share value by whatever legal means possible. That's why we need independent regulators to occasionally stop companies doing exactly the things you say, microsft get it more than most because they have a longer history of doing this kind of stuff.

I accept it's a perfectly natural thing for them to do, I just personally detest them for that very reason, IT used to be a lot more interesteng until MS killed off innovation in lot's of areas.

I don't see how MS have killed it off nor do I see how they can be accused of being a closed system. 3rd party kit and apps work with MS boxes. Much of the preinstalled stuff is second best and if you want a top piece of kit you can add it, it is just that most people don't bother.
Ford fit Ford radios to their cars, but many of us have fitted our own because they are better. It is the same scenario.
I dont run a standard sound card or a standard graphics card nor do I run MS only software. I bought the package and then threw away the bits I didnt want and added the bits I did. Just the same as I did with my car my motorbike etc. It is possible to do.
Nobody is tied to MS kit or software. Can the same be said of Apple or Sony. Why go after MS when there are other corporations or industries that are much more restrictive.

I have no love for MS or Gates, but I do feel that they are being picked on as an easy target because nobody likes them or are jealous of their income. Much like contractors and IR35 realy.

[TheMonkey]

I'm sorry to take an unconventional view on this, but isn't it a good thing that the consumer gets all this stuff for free? I'd rather not have to download everything every time you build a system. The default options are fine unless you are a power user (which accounts for about 5% of total user population).

As for competition, you are telling me that they are being fined for being successful? Even if their business tactics are predatory, isn't business a case of "maintaining a clear advantage over your competitors".

I think the Adobe Macromedia merger is far more worrying than bundling software.

I'm not a fan of Microsoft in general, but at the end of the day, aren't the EU's bullying tactics more worrying than a media player integration?

[snaw]

I don't see how MS have killed it off nor do I see how they can be accused of being a closed system. 3rd party kit and apps work with MS boxes. Much of the preinstalled stuff is second best and if you want a top piece of kit you can add it, it is just that most people don't bother.
Ford fit Ford radios to their cars, but many of us have fitted our own because they are better. It is the same scenario.
I dont run a standard sound card or a standard graphics card nor do I run MS only software. I bought the package and then threw away the bits I didnt want and added the bits I did. Just the same as I did with my car my motorbike etc. It is possible to do.
Nobody is tied to MS kit or software. Can the same be said of Apple or Sony. Why go after MS when there are other corporations or industries that are much more restrictive.

I have no love for MS or Gates, but I do feel that they are being picked on as an easy target because nobody likes them or are jealous of their income. Much like contractors and IR35 realy.

From it's very origins it's been all about suppressing any competition, and maintaning their monopoly. Natural behaviour for any company, but with the side affect of stifling innovation, IMO. The way they handled competition from netscape (Bundling IE for free, threating to not license windows for suppliers that bundled netscape etc), to novell, java, taking on google etc etc. The issue isn't generally that they take on any potential competition - more the means they use to do so - generally considered illegal (Or borderline illegal).

Your analogy to contracting is interesting. If anything the Microsft model would mean that none of us would have limited companies, but instead there would be one big mega consulting company, who killed competition everytime to such an extent that anytime one of us created a LTD they would come along and undercut us or provide services for free to ensure there would be no 'threat' ...

[Joe Black]

Your analogy to contracting is interesting. If anything the Microsft model would mean that none of us would have limited companies, but instead there would be one big mega consulting company, who killed competition everytime to such an extent that anytime one of us created a LTD they would come along and undercut us or provide services for free to ensure there would be no 'threat' ...

Following your analogy, does that also mean that all these open source people offering Linux, StarOffice, FireFox etc, are also competing uncompetitively?

[AtW]

EU commission and US Justice Dept all screwed up by associating bundled stuff with anti-competitive behavior: what was anti-competitive is having Microsoft telling OEMs that they wont get same Windows discounts or no Windows at all if they bundle Netscape on same PCs, now that was unfair competition and all such cases should be pursued. One is already in courts - Intel vs AMD, very similar situation but addressed correctly by AMD.