Increased working hours on day rate (Germany)

**The Lone Gunman** · 14 July 2006, 08:33

Not sure if this is still relevant, but Germany has very strict labour laws.
There may be more up to date versions.

http://www.ilo.org/dyn/natlex/docs/W...8/E94DEU01.htm

edit: Also point out to them that German rules on freelance workers mean that if they exercise control over you and your hours they may become your employer and will be liable for German taxes on your entire income. This will also affect you but will cost them a fortune.

**BlasterBates** · 14 July 2006, 08:46

There is no "normal" day. Normally however you should negotiate an hourly rate, not a daily rate, then the client says you can't work more than 8.5 or 9 hours. I've never heard of a "daily rate", sounds like the agent purposely didn't say too much to get you to agree to the rate. I bet you don't have to do 9 hours, that is probably just a cap.

**MikeP** · 17 July 2006, 22:05

Belated thanks to both for your feedback. As it's only a two month gig at which I took on more for the beergardens than the rate, I decided to bite the bullet and do it anyway.

BB - you're right, it is a cap, but it's 'expected' that we work to the cap - projectwide. According to the client it was advertised at 9h, and at this stage I'm inclined to believe them. I did find it slightly odd that the Agency (Westhouse Consulting) immediately spoke day rates as hourly seems more common in Western Europe.

I had a couple of contract issues too, so for anyone having dealings with Westhouse: Friendly, good feedback/communication etc, but check your contract very very carefully. On the plus side they were very amenable to terms and incorporated all my amendments without question.

**oxtailsoup** · 18 July 2006, 07:29

Can't believe you are making a fuss of working a 9 hour day. An extra hour a day maximum. Big deal.

**MikeP** · 18 July 2006, 07:50

It's not the hours themselves, but the principle that I was railroaded into it and would have negotiated an hourly rate.

I usually do a bit beyond my stated hours (varies by rate), but the point is that when I clock up 42 hours anywhere else I'm putting in extra, whereas here I'm short.

Most importantly though, if I'm near home I don't mind as much either, but when you're travelling hours translate into Friday-getting-home-time which has now gone from a planned 4pm to 8pm.

**The Lone Gunman** · 18 July 2006, 08:06

Originally posted by MikeP

It's not the hours themselves, but the principle that I was railroaded into it and would have negotiated an hourly rate.

I usually do a bit beyond my stated hours (varies by rate), but the point is that when I clock up 42 hours anywhere else I'm putting in extra, whereas here I'm short.

Most importantly though, if I'm near home I don't mind as much either, but when you're travelling hours translate into Friday-getting-home-time which has now gone from a planned 4pm to 8pm.

Tell them you are going to ring the local authority to check if regulated hours mean you can still be freelance. following quote taken from expatica

You have to be very precise about your freelance status in Germany, as who is and who is not is clearly laid down in Section 18 of the 'Einkommensteuergesetz' (Income Tax Law).
You need to tell the tax office you are totally independent, including in terms of working hours and jobs taken, otherwise the German courts will consider you are on the payroll of one particular organisation, regardless of any freelance contract you may have with it.

If they state the hours then you are an employee. They will be responsible for the German version of employers NI and you will not get the same benefits.

**oxtailsoup** · 18 July 2006, 08:10

I actually look at it the opposite way. If I'm working close to home (which is almost never!) I like to try and get back sharpish. But if I'm working away from home I don't really care what hours I do within reason. So long as the client is flexible when it comes to getting home early on a Friday, or as in my current contract I go home on Thursday night and work from home on Friday (very agreeable!).

**MikeP** · 18 July 2006, 08:35

Thanks TLG, I'm not going to stir the pot with 6 weeks left, but future potential with same company/different clients is there, so that's _very_ handy for next round of negotiations.

As to the getting home bit - yes, most clients are quite agreeable. But ho hum we live and learn, regardless of number of years in the business. Hourly rates or stipulated hours from here on.

**The Lone Gunman** · 18 July 2006, 08:59

No probs mate.

You want to check out the hours with the end client. Most german companies are (rightly) terrified of the tax man deciding you are an employee. You want to make sure this isnt the agent taking the piss.
You will be doing your client a favour by telling them if they are not aware and have other long term contractors on their books. They could get stung big style.

Increased working hours on day rate (Germany)