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kleo112233
15th May 2013, 16:28
I've realised that my umbrella has been robbing me blind and the take home pay I get is beyond what I expected. Thus, I've decided I'd rather go limited. So, my question is: can I resign from the umbrella halfway through my assignment (contract) which terminates in four months time and switch to limited?

Thanks!!!

Apox21
15th May 2013, 18:34
Absolutely, give them notice asap. You'll just need to set up ltd company then get client/agency to set up new contract between them and limited company for remaining 4 months. Happens all the time.

oscarose
15th May 2013, 18:40
Yes.

Good luck.

mudskipper
15th May 2013, 19:36
I've realised that my umbrella has been robbing me blind and the take home pay I get is beyond what I expected. Thus, I've decided I'd rather go limited. So, my question is: can I resign from the umbrella halfway through my assignment (contract) which terminates in four months time and switch to limited?

Thanks!!!

I doubt they're 'robbing you blind' - did you not read and understand the fee structure before signing up?

If it's coming as a surprise, are you sure you're up for the additional admin and attention to detail of a limited?

You may also find that, if you have only one engagement with the umbrella, your expenses become invalid. Make sure you understand the pros and cons before you jump from frying pan to fire.

LisaContractorUmbrella
16th May 2013, 06:52
I've realised that my umbrella has been robbing me blind and the take home pay I get is beyond what I expected. Thus, I've decided I'd rather go limited. So, my question is: can I resign from the umbrella halfway through my assignment (contract) which terminates in four months time and switch to limited?

Thanks!!!

Could you be a bit more specific about 'robbing you blind'? An umbrella company should pay you through PAYE - in exactly the same way as you will be obliged to pay yourself through your own Ltd Co if your working practices put you inside IR35. As Mudskipper says - are you sure you fully understand the implications?

Meera @ K&B Accountancy
21st May 2013, 15:12
Hi

You could still set up a limited company and operate within IR35 but 95% of your income is taxed under PAYE. There could be still be benefits due to flat rate VAT, however there would also be additional admin responsibilities unlike umbrella.

Your IR35 status is basically the most important factor to consider if you are thinking of trading via a limited company.

Anonimouse
9th September 2013, 16:12
I was forced to work for an umbrella recently who provided a projection, but when i started I received 175 LESS per week, on querying this i was told i had been put on a 'special' contract on the request of my agency, my agency knew nothing about this. also their charges were much higher than I was led to believe.

i was certainly robbed especially as they refused to allow any expenses for the 1st week :ladybags:

LisaContractorUmbrella
26th September 2013, 08:28
I was forced to work for an umbrella recently who provided a projection, but when i started I received 175 LESS per week, on querying this i was told i had been put on a 'special' contract on the request of my agency, my agency knew nothing about this. also their charges were much higher than I was led to believe.

i was certainly robbed especially as they refused to allow any expenses for the 1st week :ladybags:

What was 'special' about the contract - did they tell you??

Anonimouse
26th September 2013, 17:09
Some Swedish work time contract, which nobody but them has ever heard of, the agency certainly didn't request it.

I asked several times for an explanation but didn't understand a word.

I have had the joy of completing a p87 to try to get the money back.

cojak
26th September 2013, 17:15
Some Swedish work time contract, which nobody but them has ever heard of, the agency certainly didn't request it.

I asked several times for an explanation but didn't understand a word.

I have had the joy of completing a p87 to try to get the money back.

Really??? You've never heard of Swedish Derogation?

Comparative employee and Swedish Derogation - Acas Mobile (http://m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4379)

Anonimouse
26th September 2013, 19:30
Nope and I have been contracting a long time.

I asked my normal agency and they said it wasn't something they used.

I certainly wasn't paid between assignment, in fact I was barely paid at all. Hence the p87

LisaContractorUmbrella
27th September 2013, 08:52
Some Swedish work time contract, which nobody but them has ever heard of, the agency certainly didn't request it.

I asked several times for an explanation but didn't understand a word.

I have had the joy of completing a p87 to try to get the money back.

I would guess, from what you have said, that the umbrella company operates a Swedish Derogation contract which, in order to comply with the Agency Worker Regulations, must contain a provision for pay between assignments. Some umbrella companies operate by deducting an amount from you each week or month which would then be paid back to you when you were between assignments - i assume this is what has happened here. Did they say why they wouldn't process your expenses??

Anonimouse
27th September 2013, 17:29
Because I wasn't employed by them apparently, so I asked them how they were going to pay me then if I wasn't employed. They said HMRC insisted to prevent fraudulent expenses claims.

By the time they took the Swedish stoppages, their fees and no expenses I got pennies. I would never start straight away again.

I asked for the pay between assignments but got nothing when the contract ended.

I spoke to my current agency and asked why some agencies only use certain brolly's and they said because they got a bung.

LisaContractorUmbrella
30th September 2013, 11:31
Because I wasn't employed by them apparently, so I asked them how they were going to pay me then if I wasn't employed. They said HMRC insisted to prevent fraudulent expenses claims.

By the time they took the Swedish stoppages, their fees and no expenses I got pennies. I would never start straight away again.

I asked for the pay between assignments but got nothing when the contract ended.

I spoke to my current agency and asked why some agencies only use certain brolly's and they said because they got a bung.

I could understand that they wouldn't pay for expenses that were incurred before you began employment with them - they would be costs that you would need to submit to HMRC via SA but I can't understand money being taken from you to cover PBA not being returned to you when you left their employment - that's not their money and should not be retained if you leave their employment

Anonimouse
30th September 2013, 19:30
It was not expenses from before I started it was expenses from when I started but because they hadn't done their paper work in time I couldn't claim them.

Nope no money returned I have a four figure claim with HMRC whether it includes that or not I have no idea.

Waldorf
30th September 2013, 20:15
I was forced to work for an umbrella recently who provided a projection

Why were you forced? Is this another case of the agency wanting a bung from a brolly?

LisaContractorUmbrella
1st October 2013, 07:59
It was not expenses from before I started it was expenses from when I started but because they hadn't done their paper work in time I couldn't claim them.

Nope no money returned I have a four figure claim with HMRC whether it includes that or not I have no idea.

If you hadn't signed the contract of employment at the point when you had incurred the expenses you would not be an employee of the umbrella company and therefore you wouldn't be entitled to make a claim for expenses - if you had signed the contract then it's a different matter. It would not be down to HMRC to return money to you that the umbrella company had deducted to cover PBA - that should only be your expenses (what costs had you incurred?? a four figure claim for that short period of time is pretty steep.)

Anonimouse
1st October 2013, 19:32
Mileage, parking, subsistence, they allowed me next to nothing every week.

Agency said this brolly or no job. I must admit my first thought was bung.

LisaContractorUmbrella
3rd October 2013, 07:58
Mileage, parking, subsistence, they allowed me next to nothing every week.

Agency said this brolly or no job. I must admit my first thought was bung.

So, are you saying that you incurred costs of over £1,000 for mileage, parking and subsistence but your umbrella company didn't process these costs as expenses? If so there a several reasons why - as I said if you hadn't signed your contract of employment then you wouldn't be an employee and would have no entitlement to expenses; if the expenses reduced your taxable income to a point where it feel below minimum wage the umbrella company would be breaking the law; if there was an issue with the expenses themselves. Did they offer no explanation??

Your first thought was undoubtedly correct

Anonimouse
3rd October 2013, 19:10
I did sign my contract, I was doing 505 miles a week, they processed a very small amount of expenses I 'lost' almost half my wages every week, hence the huge p87 claim.

Awful awful people. I finished in August and it has taken till now with me emailing almost daily to Get the info to complete the forms.

northernladuk
3rd October 2013, 20:15
I did sign my contract, I was doing 505 miles a week, they processed a very small amount of expenses I 'lost' almost half my wages every week, hence the huge p87 claim.

Awful awful people. I finished in August and it has taken till now with me emailing almost daily to Get the info to complete the forms.

Emailing? :facepalm: Why do people think emailing is the way to sort a problem out? Drives me nuts.

LisaContractorUmbrella
4th October 2013, 06:47
I did sign my contract, I was doing 505 miles a week, they processed a very small amount of expenses I 'lost' almost half my wages every week, hence the huge p87 claim.

Awful awful people. I finished in August and it has taken till now with me emailing almost daily to Get the info to complete the forms.

But WHY did they only process a small amount of expenses???? What was your rate on the contract?

Anonimouse
4th October 2013, 19:04
Emailing? :facepalm: Why do people think emailing is the way to sort a problem out? Drives me nuts.

Because firstly they use a premium rate number and secondly email produces a paper trail so that when they deny whatever you can produce said email.

Anonimouse
4th October 2013, 19:06
But WHY did they only process a small amount of expenses???? What was your rate on the contract?

I have no idea why, I got so sick of speaking to them and going round and round, they also didn't use the p45 I supplied them with either.

kal
6th October 2013, 00:42
I have no idea why, I got so sick of speaking to them and going round and round, they also didn't use the p45 I supplied them with either.

Another reason not to go with an umbrella if you are serious about your profession, they are basically leeches who ensure you are working in the least tax efficient manner possible while creaming off a lucrative %age off the top for doing sweet FA (never mind its yet another middle man company holding onto your money while you hope they stay solvent long enough to pay you...)

Anonimouse
6th October 2013, 10:25
Yeah well decent accountants aren't that easy to find I have been limited twice now and gone back to umbrella.

LisaContractorUmbrella
7th October 2013, 07:10
I have no idea why, I got so sick of speaking to them and going round and round, they also didn't use the p45 I supplied them with either.

You said that you had liaised with them via email so you must have something in writing from them surely?

Anonimouse
7th October 2013, 20:15
I do but it makes no sense and despite repeated requests for a translation they just repeat the same garbage.

I have handed it over to current brolly in the hope they can untangle it.

kal
7th October 2013, 23:34
Yeah well decent accountants aren't that easy to find I have been limited twice now and gone back to umbrella.

More fool you, running a Ltd isn't exactly rocket science... are you sure you're cut out to be contractor?

TykeMerc
8th October 2013, 00:00
Yeah well decent accountants aren't that easy to find I have been limited twice now and gone back to umbrella.


The bit in bold is utterly unbelievable, I've had thoroughly professional service from the accountant I use (who occasionally post on this board) and they're just one of the many competent accountancy firms that understand contracting and charge a reasonable fee.
There are many reasons people prefer or are compelled to use Umbrella companies, but inability to find a suitable accountant to support a MyCo Ltd makes no sense.

socialworker
8th October 2013, 06:40
Another reason not to go with an umbrella if you are serious about your profession, they are basically leeches who ensure you are working in the least tax efficient manner possible while creaming off a lucrative %age off the top for doing sweet FA (never mind its yet another middle man company holding onto your money while you hope they stay solvent long enough to pay you...)

I have to disagree, umbrellas don't "ensure you are working in the least tax efficient manner". You choose to work in roles where you are within IR35 i.e. paying tax in the same way as the majority of the population. Why do you think you should be an exception? Yes they get paid for their work but don't you? - and there is probably more to it than you think. Dealing with some of the people who post on here can't be a picnic either, who basically think the rules dont apply to them and don't read contracts before they sign them.

LisaContractorUmbrella
8th October 2013, 07:26
I do but it makes no sense and despite repeated requests for a translation they just repeat the same garbage.

I have handed it over to current brolly in the hope they can untangle it.

If you want to PM me I will translate for you :smile

Anonimouse
8th October 2013, 20:55
We'll the 1st was hopeless the 2nd brilliant but moved, the 3rd did a runner leaving us all in a big hole with HMRC as he had all our paper work and was receiving all communications.

Then went back to brolly, then tried one of the big specialised contractor companies who were very good at first then went rapidly downhill, so back to brolly.

Obviously I am not cut out to be a contractor, I have only been doing it since 95

LisaContractorUmbrella
9th October 2013, 06:47
We'll the 1st was hopeless the 2nd brilliant but moved, the 3rd did a runner leaving us all in a big hole with HMRC as he had all our paper work and was receiving all communications.

Then went back to brolly, then tried one of the big specialised contractor companies who were very good at first then went rapidly downhill, so back to brolly.

Obviously I am not cut out to be a contractor, I have only been doing it since 95

You're being too hard on yourself :hug:

moggy
9th October 2013, 09:48
Your being too hard on yourself :hug:

:spel

LisaContractorUmbrella
9th October 2013, 09:52
:spel

:emb

Anonimouse
17th October 2013, 19:17
So HMRC want to know why I have submitted a P87:tantrum:

northernladuk
17th October 2013, 21:42
Obviously I am not cut out to be a contractor, I have only been doing it since 95

And still using brollies? You are correct in the first part of that line ;)

Anonimouse
18th October 2013, 16:42
If you read back you will find I have been limited for many years, only returned to brolly 2012.

kal
18th October 2013, 18:49
And still using brollies? You are correct in the first part of that line ;)

WHS, doing a bit of short term temp work fine pay a middle man, otherwise...

Anonimouse
22nd October 2013, 12:51
so flippin brolly is now arguing about the start date of my contract :cretin:

they are a total joke.

LisaContractorUmbrella
22nd October 2013, 13:36
so flippin brolly is now arguing about the start date of my contract :cretin:

they are a total joke.

Arguing with whom? The start date of the business to business contract will be dictated by the agency/end client or do you mean your employment contract?

Anonimouse
22nd October 2013, 17:41
Having completed a p87 on the instruction of the brolly to claim my expenses, I received not a cheque as they stated, but a Long questionnaire, as a lot of the questions needed their input I forwarded to them to complete.

Firstly they spelt my name wrong, then They changed my sex, then they changed my name completely, then they put the wrong start date for the contract, I cannot believe they are allowed to operate, nor that people choose to use them!

This has been going on since june

LisaContractorUmbrella
23rd October 2013, 07:35
Having completed a p87 on the instruction of the brolly to claim my expenses, I received not a cheque as they stated, but a Long questionnaire, as a lot of the questions needed their input I forwarded to them to complete.

Firstly they spelt my name wrong, then They changed my sex, then they changed my name completely, then they put the wrong start date for the contract, I cannot believe they are allowed to operate, nor that people choose to use them!

This has been going on since june

It does sound as though you have had a difficult time with your current umbrella company - maybe another firm would be better for you? Personal service and professionalism are very important when someone else is dealing with your money aren't they?

Anonimouse
23rd October 2013, 14:32
they are not my current umbrella and will never be, I went for an interview in june and was offered the job on the spot with a start the following day. I foolishly accepted, the agency then said this brolly or nothing, I checked the online calculator and it seemed ok, so I went ahead, Big Mistake! one I will not make again. I am now in another contract with my former umbrella.

LisaContractorUmbrella
23rd October 2013, 15:47
they are not my current umbrella and will never be, I went for an interview in june and was offered the job on the spot with a start the following day. I foolishly accepted, the agency then said this brolly or nothing, I checked the online calculator and it seemed ok, so I went ahead, Big Mistake! one I will not make again. I am now in another contract with my former umbrella.

As you have used the present tense throughout the entirety of the thread and were ranting about their performance somewhat vociferously I rather assumed that your issue was current - my mistake.

Anonimouse
15th November 2013, 08:30
right the saga continues the HMRC have rejected the claim. where do I go for assistance?

and can I take action against the brolly?

LisaContractorUmbrella
15th November 2013, 09:46
right the saga continues the HMRC have rejected the claim. where do I go for assistance?

and can I take action against the brolly?

Not really - if the claim hasn't been allowed by HMRC then the umbrella company were correct not to process it

DirtyDog
15th November 2013, 09:55
If you only had one place of work during your employment, then you won't be able to claim travel and subsistence expenses. You can only claim those if you are travelling to a temporary workplace, which you weren't.

Would that explain why you didn't get them paid?

Anonimouse
15th November 2013, 13:03
no the reason given for not paying was the back dating issue and due to the swedish contract there was a limit to how much they could process every week the brolly told me during the contract that I would get the money back at the end, and that is how they normally do things.

LisaContractorUmbrella
15th November 2013, 13:33
no the reason given for not paying was the back dating issue and due to the swedish contract there was a limit to how much they could process every week the brolly told me during the contract that I would get the money back at the end, and that is how they normally do things.

As I said, if you were not employed by them they would not have been able to process previously incurred expenses. If you only intended to have one assignment with them you would not have been entitled to claim travel and subsistence expenses as your workplace would be considered by HMRC to be permanent. The umbrella company should not have been deducting money from you to cover their obligations under a Swedish Derogation contract - can you confirm if these deductions have now been paid back to you?

Anonimouse
15th November 2013, 17:41
The back dating was not from another contract/agency/umbrella it was from them. They didn't process any expenses from the start of the contract, then wouldn't back date.

I did intend to have other contracts thru them as the agency has plenty of work, but after bringing home just over 50% of my earnings every week I just can't afford to, especially as that contract was at a lower than normal rate, but as it was for only for 3 months I foolishly took it as my original contract had been put back.

LisaContractorUmbrella
18th November 2013, 08:07
The back dating was not from another contract/agency/umbrella it was from them. They didn't process any expenses from the start of the contract, then wouldn't back date.

I did intend to have other contracts thru them as the agency has plenty of work, but after bringing home just over 50% of my earnings every week I just can't afford to, especially as that contract was at a lower than normal rate, but as it was for only for 3 months I foolishly took it as my original contract had been put back.

What tax code was used? If your rate was lower than normal I cannot really see how you could have had such a low take home.

Anonimouse
18th November 2013, 08:15
I have no idea what tax code they used, they didn't use the P45 I offered, the rate was lower than normal, but the expenses higher so I was expecting to bring home less but not nearly half.

LisaContractorUmbrella
18th November 2013, 08:19
The tax code used and tax paid will be on your payslip.

northernladuk
18th November 2013, 08:30
The tax code used and tax paid will be on your payslip.

Someone isn't cut out of the this being employed malarkey.

LisaContractorUmbrella
18th November 2013, 08:39
Someone isn't cut out of the this being employed malarkey.

That's a new one for you NLUK :laugh