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Plan B - Getting to grips what 'real' businesses charge for software

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    Plan B - Getting to grips what 'real' businesses charge for software

    A Plan B involves creating bespoke software for companies. I sometimes get asked early on "roughly what does this cost" and find it hard to give them an answer because the numbers are so big I think they'll laugh in my face!

    Some people here must know about this stuff; my background is as a developer so I am reliant on doing the arithmetic without past experience.

    I know in the UK, a decent developer can get £400/day on contract work so clearly a business is not losing money on that - they typically pay permies less but let's say including all overheads and the agent's cut, a developer costs £500/day all-in. So I will even neglect trying to put a mark-up on that and simply say I charge people out at £500/man-day.

    Now a small team big enough to get something useful done - 3 people full-time seems about right. 20 days a month, so we're looking at £30k/month. A medium sized project could easily run to a year.

    So with a pretty minimal team, we're talking £350k a year. Add a 4th person or factor in profit on top, and we're at half a million quid!

    And the issue is, I know some competitors are using cheap resources from around the world, working remotely for $20/hr. I could hire those people too, but that's a new-ish trend and many companies don't, and stay in business.

    I put this in General so we can muck about, but serious responses would be welcome. Do I just stop thinking how big the number is and quote it? I've noticed since I started contracting how sums of money seem less - £1000 is hardly anything - does the same effect happen when doing real business? Little me asking for getting on for a million dollars is rather startling!!
    Originally posted by MaryPoppins
    I'd still not breastfeed a nazi
    Originally posted by vetran
    Urine is quite nourishing

    #2
    Originally posted by d000hg View Post
    Do I just stop thinking how big the number is and quote it?
    No. Multiply it by 10 first and then sell a support contract to provide work arounds for the bugs you've implanted.
    And what exactly is wrong with an "ad hominem" argument? Dodgy Agent, 16-5-2014

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      #3
      But then again the "big" companies will need to factor in non income generating over heads, HR staff, finance etc etc so its hard to do a direct comparision
      Originally posted by Stevie Wonder Boy
      I can't see any way to do it can you please advise?

      I want my account deleted and all of my information removed, I want to invoke my right to be forgotten.

      Comment


        #4
        It's hard to come to terms with the numbers.

        I was on a project where 500K (half a million £) was paid to Bob to develop a tool.

        I was on a site visit and found they had not developed the tool, they just had a guy in the corner doing it manualy when required. I am sure they were billing him on another project too.

        You need to do time in pre-sales, you will be able to say 2 million in no time.
        Fiscal nomad it's legal.

        Comment


          #5
          If it's truly bespoke then you can either price it on T&M or take a risk and put a fixed price quote together. It is generally best to err on the side of caution i.e. charge a lot, it's better to loose out on the deal than get hung out to dry because you undercharged.

          If it's a product with potential for multiple customers then you need to look at what similar products cost, how they are licensed etc. Large companies are used to paying five figures per CPU core or hundreds of pounds per user even for high volume products like vmware, OS, database, office etc so you shouldn't be embarrassed to present them with a massive bill.

          You might need to do a bit of work on the sales though, and if you are very small the chances are they will want to see the code in escrow so that they have a shot at continuity if you go under.
          While you're waiting, read the free novel we sent you. It's a Spanish story about a guy named 'Manual.'

          Comment


            #6
            It sounds like you may need a pre /sales person to front up the negotiations and get you the best possible price for your work, put them on commission and then it's in their interest to get you the best possible price ( arrrgh realise an agent would also be suitable in this situation... now I feel unclean)
            It's very unusual for techies to be comfortable in handling the costings but it should always (like contracting) be whatever you think you can get away
            How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think

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              #7
              Have a look at Oracle licensing costs and your figures look like small change!

              And that's for off the shelf software....

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                #8
                Originally posted by Troll View Post
                It sounds like you may need a pre /sales person to front up the negotiations and get you the best possible price for your work, put them on commission and then it's in their interest to get you the best possible price ( arrrgh realise an agent would also be suitable in this situation... now I feel unclean)
                It's very unusual for techies to be comfortable in handling the costings but it should always (like contracting) be whatever you think you can get away
                The trouble with sales people is that most of them are ****wits who will promise the earth to get the deal signed without regard to what it's going to cost to deliver, if you aren't careful they will bankrupt you.
                While you're waiting, read the free novel we sent you. It's a Spanish story about a guy named 'Manual.'

                Comment


                  #9
                  I started off for a small consultancy 17 years ago an we had a turnover of around 1million with 10 staff. At the time I was paid £28k. These days it would all be twice that.

                  It depends on the company. A small one would balk at the price youd offer for say a small app at £50k but others may not. My budget for this year is $1.6m. In addition to that we've already sunk $500k at least into the poison chalice project Ive inherited whilst on BI I've spent 100k with another 300k for the rest of the year. My budget is nothing compared to other departments / teams.
                  What happens in General, stays in General.
                  You know what they say about assumptions!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Worked with a team doing some bespoke software development and provision of infrastructure to run it (test & dev rigs + live). Four devs (three exp, one grad), PM, part time senior chap, Tester\BA (grad hire), three infra guys (one senior, two grads). A good year would take about £1.5 to £2m plus expenses i.e. rig hardware, travel, anything the co. could think of.

                    Grads fresh from uni were charged around £350 to £450 a day. A generic 10% to 15% was added to everything to cover sales

                    That eventually wound down to a team of two dev, three infra, and a PM billing about £1m, which was mostly keeping the product warm and minor enhancements.

                    Quite cheap looking back at it. Big4 technical types start their prices at around £1000pd and that's a low end resource.

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