Wisdom from unexpected sources

[xoggoth]

Do you find that people at the opposite end of the political spectrum actually say very sensible things, AKA , things that you agree with?

For those who never read The Guardian on principle here's that bête noir of the right Polly Toynbee on immigration:

Has immigration been good for Britain? That depends on who you are. Brown's Treasury boasted that migrants boosted GDP - without counting whether they boosted GDP per capita. Nor does rising GDP show who wins and who loses in so unequal a country. It's wonderful for employers and the affluent wanting cheap nannies, cleaners and plumbers - bad for the unemployed, many of whom would have been skilled-up for the jobs otherwise.

Not the only very sensible comments by Toynbee and I can think of others from Rowan Williams, Bob Crow, Brownstuff, He Who Must be Stabbed and even The Prince of Daftness. Any other strange examples from your own viewpoints?

[malvolio]

Do you find that people at the opposite end of the political spectrum actually say very sensible things, AKA , things that you agree with?

For those who never read The Guardian on principle here's that bête noir of the right Polly Toynbee on immigration:



Not the only very sensible comments by Toynbee and I can think of others from Rowan Williams, Bob Crow, Brownstuff, He Who Must be Stabbed and even The Prince of Daftness. Any other strange examples from your own viewpoints?

That's not smart, it's Toynbee being her usual economically illiterate self. It's not about cheap nannies and other low-skill trades (like plumbing...??), it's about the cost to social support (schools, housing, health care...) and St Vince of Cable's determination to drive our best industries offshore.

And all the listed soi-disant left wing socialists are on six-figure sinecures isolated from reality: I'd rather put my trust in the guy that writes Thomas the Tank.

[thunderlizard]

I found myself in agreement with this bit of vintage Blair last week, maybe because he sticks to a narrow line.

Second class justice » 18 Aug 1979 » The Spectator Archive

[xoggoth]

That's not smart, it's Toynbee being her usual economically illiterate self.

Granted she does not mention all factors but IMO she is right as far as the main drivers of immigration are concerned. This is always blamed on "liberal lefties" etc. but the main culprits for mass and unselective immigration are the wealthy and business groups, they want cheap labour so they can get more profit The rest of us pick up the bill via the welfare and social housing systems when the wages they pay their workers are inadequate to care for their families.

Nobody seems interested in examining the value of these businesses that, in many cases, are quite pointless. Boosting profitable and innovative companies with really skilled people from abroad is to our advantage but the reality is that many, often barely profitable takeaways, shop or cafes catering for other migrants or marketing companies annoying us all with cold callers, telesales and junk mail, are quite pointless, they simply draw passing and casual trade away from the real assets.

[mudskipper]

Sometimes I agree with xoggoth.

[Platypus]

That's not smart, it's Toynbee being her usual economically illiterate self. It's not about cheap nannies and other low-skill trades (like plumbing...??), it's about the cost to social support (schools, housing, health care...) and St Vince of Cable's determination to drive our best industries offshore.

And all the listed soi-disant left wing socialists are on six-figure sinecures isolated from reality: I'd rather put my trust in the guy that writes Thomas the Tank.

Spot on

[EternalOptimist]

There is a trick to evaluating those that you disagree with. It's really tough sometimes to check out their arguments properly (due to confirmation bias), but a sure-fire way is check them out for ad-homs and insults
I have found that people who resort to name calling are seldom worth listening to

[vetran]

There is a trick to evaluating those that you disagree with. It's really tough sometimes to check out their arguments properly (due to confirmation bias), but a sure-fire way is check them out for ad-homs and insults
I have found that people who resort to name calling are seldom worth listening to

what the **** you talking about muppet???

sorry couldn't resist.


People like Polly accused us all of being racists while New Lie robbed our young & unemployed of jobs to keep their mates happy and support the false boom. They should all be stripped of their cash and forced to live on the minimum dole!

[Troll]

They should all be stripped of their cash and forced to live on the minimum dole!

What's wrong with summary execution?

[xoggoth]

Hmmm. Only me who thinks Toynbee can sometimes be quite sensible then.

Actually, she also says summit else very sane in that link, it is GDP per capita of the existing population that should be used to measure benefits of immigration, not GDP. A house of Lords committee looked into that and found, in line with studies in other countries, that there was no significant benefit.

I have to say that, after extensive research, I have never found anything remotely sensible said by Ed Balls. Come on, positive rep for anyone who can find a sensible comment by Ed Balls!