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Green energy storage

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    Green energy storage

    BBC News - German tariffs make green energy too expensive to store


    One of the most promising technologies is a system called Power-to-Gas, which converts green energy into both hydrogen and methane. The technology has been developed at the Centre for Solar Energy and Hydrogen Research (ZSW) in Stuttgart.

    Electricity from the grid drives a process of electrolysis that creates the hydrogen and oxygen from water. Carbon dioxide is then added to the hydrogen which creates synthetic methane that can be pumped into the gas distribution grid. It can be used for heating or to make electricity.

    According to the scientist behind the technology, Power-to-Gas has some major advantages over other ideas that are being tested.


    The Power-to-Gas facility not only stores green energy but takes care of carbon dioxide as well
    "If you want to store energy over a long time, then I think a chemical energy carrier is the only option," Dr Michael Specht told BBC News.

    "The other ideas such as pumped water or large batteries, typically have storage times of one or two days - but with this system we have storage times of weeks or months."

    That's impressive, make gas, store it and use gas turbines to generate electricity as needed. With hydro it was a couple of days storage, now they could achieve 3-weeks with gas generation.

    It seems to me this technology will deliver results long before fusion.

    Wish it were the UK that were leading in this technology.


    On a bright Sunday in June this year, solar and wind provided 60% of Germany's power needs. So much solar was being produced that wholesale prices were for a time in the negative.
    "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". Mark Twain

    #2
    Originally posted by zeitghost
    Wonder what the energy efficiency is like.

    H20 -> H + O -> H + CO2 > CH4.

    Looks hard to me.
    Who cares, it could be 20%, solar and wind does not consume finite resources. Unless the sun going supernova in 3 billion years to part of the government's anti-green policy.
    "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". Mark Twain

    Comment


      #3
      But the growth of renewables has been hampered by the intermittent nature of the sun and wind.
      If only somebody had forseen that.
      Will work inside IR35. Or for food.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by scooterscot View Post
        Who cares, it could be 20%, solar and wind does not consume finite resources. Unless the sun going supernova in 3 billion years to part of the government's anti-green policy.
        just because part of the process is free, doesnt make the process cheap. If it was cheap, there would be no need for subsidies and it would already be going into production.
        Like recycling. If all the hype were true, there would be people knocking on your door begging to take your rubbish away.



        (\__/)
        (>'.'<)
        ("")("") Born to Drink. Forced to Work

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by scooterscot View Post
          BBC News - German tariffs make green energy too expensive to store





          That's impressive, make gas, store it and use gas turbines to generate electricity as needed. With hydro it was a couple of days storage, now they could achieve 3-weeks with gas generation.

          It seems to me this technology will deliver results long before fusion.

          Wish it were the UK that were leading in this technology.




          You really are a complete cretin. The best energy source is in matter. It's called nuclear energy.
          Germany has always been good at tactical plays (hartz reforms etc) but strategically has always been crap(Lebensraum, no Nuclear energy, demographic timebomb etc). Historically their unpragmatic, Romantische, perefectionist character has caused them to make big mistakes.
          I'm beginning to agree that with the assessment of KPMG that in 50 years, Britain will be the dominant power in Europe. It'll simply be because Germany throws away its advantage.
          Hard Brexit now!
          #prayfornodeal

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by EternalOptimist View Post
            just because part of the process is free, doesnt make the process cheap. If it was cheap, there would be no need for subsidies and it would already be going into production.
            Similar in reason why cheep food from asda is not fit for human consumption, but still we laud it, and wonder why we have an obesity epidemic.

            It is the same short term thinking that is prized at home, and then are in uproar when a foreign energy company rams up prices. Let them cry 'cheap' then!
            "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". Mark Twain

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by scooterscot View Post
              It is the same short term thinking that is prized at home ....
              The definition of short term thinking to me is getting rid of a nuclear option
              Hard Brexit now!
              #prayfornodeal

              Comment


                #8
                It's interesting that the title of this thread is Green energy storage, as opposed to energy storage.
                The difference between the two is that one type fits neatly into the grid and the current infrastructure, the other does not.
                So rather than ustilise the one that fits neatly, we have to take the much more expensive one and add even more costs by coming up with ways to store it. And some people think this is a good idea ?

                As far as energy storage is concerned, it's been one of the big problems for centuries. The pumped storage method (eg loch awe) is the best method I have seen, but suitable locations are few and far between.

                You take a motor car from 1900 and compare it to a 2013 car. Every single item in the new car will have changed beyond recognition, due to technology and innovation. Except for one. The car battery.
                The battery (energy storage) is almost identical in form and function to the 1900 one

                This is not an easy problem to solve


                (\__/)
                (>'.'<)
                ("")("") Born to Drink. Forced to Work

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by EternalOptimist View Post

                  You take a motor car from 1900 and compare it to a 2013 car. Every single item in the new car will have changed beyond recognition, due to technology and innovation. Except for one. The car battery.
                  The battery (energy storage) is almost identical in form and function to the 1900 one

                  Why? Did they have square wheels then? Triangular pistons?
                  Brexit is having a wee in the middle of the room at a house party because nobody is talking to you, and then complaining about the smell.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by EternalOptimist View Post
                    You take a motor car from 1900 and compare it to a 2013 car. Every single item in the new car will have changed beyond recognition, due to technology and innovation. Except for one. The car battery.

                    Incorrect. As usual. The whole principle of the internal combustion engine and how it propels a car is unchanged from 100 years ago, it has just been refined to the nth degree
                    Hard Brexit now!
                    #prayfornodeal

                    Comment

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