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expat
28th July 2006, 10:03
I am appalled at the hubris, short-sight, and self-centredness of some contractors.

I mean those who say they deserve what they get because they work hard, those people who call 9 hours in an office with free coffee "working hard".
Those who think that 2-4 times the average wage must be a sign that they are valuable people, instead of realising that they're just lucky.
Who are so self-centred that they think that their high income must be well-deserved, while even other contractors like them, with as much ability and experience, are out for long periods just because of the luck of the hot skillsets.
Who think they're a business just because the Revenue won´t let them work as the self-employed temp that they are, but instead drove them to get a Ltd Co and an accountant: hey, I´m a business!
Who think they deserve high income and tax breaks baecause of the "risk" of contracting. It looks much like the risk of working to me, only with a high chance of staying in well-paid work, compared to most workers' chances.

Well, I'm prepared to admit it. I've just been lucky. If I weren't in IT, whether a contractor or not, then I don't know what I'd be doing, but I don't think I'd be running a successful business, be a well-paid "consultant", or otherwise be coining it.

I know people who are as educated as me, who work harder than me, in jobs that their employer couldn't do without; but who make 15k or 20k a year, because that's what the job pays, because there are plenty of other people willing to take the job for that. That's normal. What is abnormal is the huge pay for what I do, and that is due only to the apparent rarity of my skills, which itself is due to the entry barrier of training and experience. Foolish and short-sighted managers would rather pay high prices for ready-made programmers, and by good luck I fell into a position to exploit that. It´s more like picking a lucky winner than it is being hard-working and deserving.

I'll take the money. But I won't kid myself that I've worked hard for all I've got, and I deserve it all and more, and any taxes are an attempt to rob me of my just riches. And I won't let you lot kid me either.

milanbenes
28th July 2006, 10:05
Expat,

I think you need to go home and lie down.

Milan.

expat
28th July 2006, 10:05
Expat,

I think you need to go home and lie down.

Milan.Yeah, I've been working too hard.

milanbenes
28th July 2006, 10:10
what did you decide on in the end ?

Moving to the UK, permiedom, renting a place, buying a place ?

As I suggested before, don't rush into any of those decisions.

If you are finding yourself on your own, I would imagine although _home_ in the UK might look attractive, it wouldn't be long before the drudgery got you down and an alternative might be to go to another overseas destination while getting your business in order - just a few thoughts.

Milan.

shaunbhoy
28th July 2006, 10:12
Expat,

I think you need to go home and lie down.

Milan.

Never mind the lying down, a good session of self-flagellation might be in order his angst has reached such proportions. Is it National Rant Day?
:tantrum:

Phoenix
28th July 2006, 10:12
Expat!...FFS................I just think you need to get laid!

expat
28th July 2006, 10:17
what did you decide on in the end ?

Moving to the UK, permiedom, renting a place, buying a place ?

As I suggested before, don't rush into any of those decisions.

If you are finding yourself on your own, I would imagine although _home_ in the UK might look attractive, it wouldn't be long before the drudgery got you down and an alternative might be to go to another overseas destination while getting your business in order - just a few thoughts.

Milan.Move to UK to live with partner: location is fixed by her daughter going into 6th form. Keep contracting. Renting for the moment. Will probably hold off buying for long enought that it won´t make sense to buy in that location any more, so will rethink plans for 2 years hence.

As you said, that time spent accumulating and reflecting, will not do any harm

expat
28th July 2006, 10:18
Expat!...FFS................I just think you need to get laid!Going home tonight..... but really, I need to retire. It's depressing when your younger brother already has.

milanbenes
28th July 2006, 10:24
he he you sound like my older brother

Milan.

expat
28th July 2006, 10:26
he he you sound like my older brother

Milan.Milan, I feel sure that people must have said worse things to me, but I might need a bit of time...

Phoenix
28th July 2006, 10:30
I need to retire. It's depressing when your younger brother already has.


Ahh! I detect the cause of your problem.Sibling rivalry

AlfredJPruffock
28th July 2006, 10:34
Whatever you do Expat, good luck.

I can appreciate your sentiments,its a hard fact of life but there is no real realtionship between the amount of work you do and renumeration, I can tell you that the harder you work the less money you will get.

Its all down to marketing and a bit of luck.

But the value of work is not renumeration it is in the satisfaction you derive from that.

As for going home, as the Chinese say

Going Means Going Far ...Going Far means Returning.

Even Alf is contemplating a return to his home in the Celtic Wastelands to a cushy permie job and a wee side business in the Piano Trade having been everywhere and done everything.

Will Alf sell out ?

Time will Tell

I think in the future going abroad will be for travelling and vacation rather than living there.

But for those who are expats, make the most of it as Ive had the most wonderful times..but All things Must Pass, none of lifes dreams can last.

milanbenes
28th July 2006, 10:37
yep Alf,

can't complain.

Expat, nice reply, you see life can always be worse

Milan.

expat
28th July 2006, 10:38
yep Alf,

can't complain.

Expat, nice reply, you see life can always be worse

Milan.LOL. It probably will be.

milanbenes
28th July 2006, 10:48
see, you're feeling better already

I should charge for this service

Milan.

shaunbhoy
28th July 2006, 10:53
I should charge for this service

Milan.

Will that be more or less than the £8 an hour you charge for changing backup tapes then benesy?
:rollin:

expat
28th July 2006, 10:59
see, you're feeling better already
...
Milan.Doesn't alter that fact that there are a few prats around who think that they're more than just lucky. Never mind.

Good luck Alf. Looking for a Plan B myself. Haven't yet found one that didn't need to be started at leat 10 years ago (actually I did start one but my wife has it now).

AlfredJPruffock
28th July 2006, 11:07
Doesn't alter that fact that there are a few prats around who think that they're more than just lucky. Never mind.

Good luck Alf. Looking for a Plan B myself. Haven't yet found one that didn't need to be started at leat 10 years ago (actually I did start one but my wife has it now).


Expat avoid using comparison with others as this only leads to frustration, as my Granny from Bellshill used to say , If ye had everything where wid ye put it ?

As those wise Chinese used to say He would accumulate much wealth has much to lose.

As the song has it ...

Four in the morning
Clapped out ...yawning
Longing my life away

I never worry
Whey should I ?
Its all going to Fade Away


And thats the cosmic joke of it all folks , do what you will, its all going to fade away ....

So it didnt matter anyway ...

expat
28th July 2006, 11:12
PS I am not Swamp Thing.

Dundeegeorge
28th July 2006, 11:16
Expat avoid using comparison with others as this only leads to frustration, as my Granny from Bellshill used to say , If ye had everything where wid ye put it ?

As those wise Chinese used to say He would accumulate much wealth has much to lose.

As the song has it ...

Four in the morning
Clapped out ...yawning
Longing my life away

I never worry
Whey should I ?
Its all going to Fade Away


And thats the cosmic joke of it all folks , do what you will, its all going to fade away ....

Might as well lie down and die now, eh Alf?
Hogwash, bollocks, tripe and garbage, fatalist crap.
You do indeed have just the one life, so why not make it mean something?
Money doesn't buy you friends but you do at least get a better class of enemy. Money doesn't buy you happiness but you might as well be comfortably miserable. Buy into the poverty mindset if you like, just don't expect other people to.....

(DG in 'sheesh, wealth creators, I don't think so' mode)

AlfredJPruffock
28th July 2006, 11:21
Might as well lie down and die now, eh Alf?
Hogwash, bollocks, tripe and garbage, fatalist crap.
You do indeed have just the one life, so why not make it mean something?
Money doesn't buy you friends but you do at least get a better class of enemy. Money doesn't buy you happiness but you might as well be comfortably miserable. Buy into the poverty mindset if you like, just don't expect other people to.....

(DG in 'sheesh, wealth creators, I don't think so' mode)

Aye DG

I am not suggesting that you dont make your life mean something,but do what you will its all going to fade away and turn to dust.

Thats why Ive spend sheds on Wine Women and Song and I dont regret one penny of my expenditure, or should I say investment?

Theres no peace of mind to be had in the Bank of England, let me walk through the Glens in peace, thats my wealth.


I am just a poor boy and my storys seldom told
Ive squandered my resistance for a pocketful of mumbles, such are promises
When I left my home and my family, I was no more than a boy

In the company of strangers
Asking only workmans wages, I come lookin for a job, but I get no offers

Just a comeon from the whores on 7th avenue
I do declare, there were times when I was so lonesome
I took some comfort there

Now the years are rolling by me, they are rockin even me
No it isnt strange, after changes upon changes, we are more or less the same
After changes we are more or less the same

Clog II The Avenger
28th July 2006, 11:28
I am appalled at the hubris, short-sight, and self-centredness of some contractors.
Bla, bla, bla,
I mean those who say they deserve what they get because they work hard, those people who call 9 hours in an office with free coffee "working hard".
Those who think that 2-4 times the average wage must be a sign that they are valuable people, instead of realising that they're just lucky.
............

Nobody has ever got rich by working hard. You have to work smart. I work smart, I share knowledge feely but I keep my own tricks of the trade up my sleeve, that way an eight hour job takes me an hour. My main income comes from one retail business and a service business. Contracting is the cream on top.

There are some devoted permies out there but most that work long hours do to impress their boss.

expat
28th July 2006, 11:29
Theres no peace of mind to be had in the Bank of England, let me walk through the Glens in peace, thats my wealth.Glens? In Belshill???

AlfredJPruffock
28th July 2006, 11:31
Glens? In Belshill???

Its all in the mind expat,anyway it my granny whose from Bellshill, Im from Hamilton.

AtW
28th July 2006, 11:39
expat is right: a lot of people have really crap jobs that pay sh1t, they get in debt and their only hope in life that their kids will move out early enough to enjoy retirement which they ain't going to get because pension system will collapse by then.

expat
28th July 2006, 12:06
expat is right: a lot of people have really crap jobs that pay sh1t, they get in debt and their only hope in life that their kids will move out early enough to enjoy retirement which they ain't going to get because pension system will collapse by then.Aaaaand: there but for fortune go you and I.

The Lone Gunman
28th July 2006, 12:21
Aaaaand: there but for fortune go you and I.<ahem>Foff.
Having a degree is down to hard work. Having the right skill set is down to smart choices. Getting the right contract is down to honed negotiating skills.

OK right place right time helps, but without my effort none of this woul;d have happened.
To misquote a great wit. The harder I work the luckier I get.

Dundeegeorge
28th July 2006, 12:23
Anything you own or have access to is down to sheer luck, either that or you stole it, so give it back to society now you sponging bastard

G. Brown

Fleetwood
28th July 2006, 12:25
To each, according to his needs : from each, according to his ability.
K.Marx

Au delà de huit mille balles par mois, tout est pour moi.*
G.Marchais, French Communist Trade Union leader
(* I'll take everything over and above 8,000 francs a month)

Dundeegeorge
28th July 2006, 12:26
To each, according to his needs : from each, according to his ability.

K.Marx

was someone who deserved a good kicking, how much nicer would the world be if that bastard had been drowned at birth?

In fact....

John Galt
28th July 2006, 12:26
expat is right: a lot of people have really crap jobs that pay sh1t, they get in debt and their only hope in life that their kids will move out early enough to enjoy retirement which they ain't going to get because pension system will collapse by then.

But why have they got really crap jobs? What is stopping them trying to better themselves?

AtW
28th July 2006, 12:27
Marx did not take into account that abilities are often very limited, but needs are infinite.


But why have they got really crap jobs? What is stopping them trying to better themselves?

Some jobs are more commodities than others: call centers, nurses, army etc.

Dundeegeorge
28th July 2006, 12:28
Marx did not take into account that abilities are often very limited, but needs are infinite.

And that was slightly watered down I have to say.
Needs are few, wants are infinite.

Pondlife
28th July 2006, 12:29
But why have they got really crap jobs? What is stopping them trying to better themselves?

FFS. Maybe their husband died of cancer and they need to be flexible in their three part time jobs to look after the kids.

expat
28th July 2006, 12:29
<ahem>Foff.
Having a degree is down to hard work. Having the right skill set is down to smart choices. Getting the right contract is down to honed negotiating skills.

OK right place right time helps, but without my effort none of this woul;d have happened.
To misquote a great wit. The harder I work the luckier I get.Yes you put effort into it, and that is a factor. But not as much as effortmost other people put in for less result; and I don't see that it's a big factor.

There's not a lot of hard work in getting a degree, not compared to working for a living.
Having the right skill set, or the wrong one, is often more down to luck that judgement.
And "honed negotiating skills"? You mean searching Jobserve, sending emails, waiting for the phone to ring because agents (spit!) are finding contracts for you. Laugh? I nearly shat myself!

The Lone Gunman
28th July 2006, 12:32
Yes you put effort into it, and that is a factor. But not as much as effortmost other people put in for less result; and I don't see that it's a big factor.

There's not a lot of hard work in getting a degree, not compared to working for a living.
Having the right skill set, or the wrong one, is often more down to luck that judgement.
And "honed negotiating skills"? You mean searching Jobserve, sending emails, waiting for the phone to ring because agents (spit!) are finding contracts for you. Laugh? I nearly shat myself!Glad you know so much about me and all the others on this web site.
Just because you have had it easy does not mean the rest of us have.

expat
28th July 2006, 12:37
Glad you know so much about me and all the others on this web site.
Just because you have had it easy does not mean the rest of us have.I don't know about you. I do know a few people in and out of IT, and I have seen enough to generalise a bit. I maintain that most people in IT have it easy, and I mean not just compared to other people, but compared to how they would have it if they hadn't found IT as a job.

shaunbhoy
28th July 2006, 13:14
Having a degree is down to hard work

Not these days it ain't!!
:rolleyes:

expat
28th July 2006, 13:16
Not these days it ain't!!
:rolleyes:Oh come on, it wasn't when I got one: not compared to real work.