Privacy vs Paranoia

[chef]

so, interesting conversation with new gf chef this morning and I now wonder what the CUK congregations thoughts on the subject are..

Conversation started after reading the news that a news site in the US has shut itself down saying it can no longer operate due to US surveillance policies, I commented that my emails and website is hosted in the US and although I have zero to hide, I am a big advocate of the right to privacy and seeings as I have little to do today I might start looking at moving my domain hosting to a Swedish host away from US based Hostgator.

This led to a discussion about the right to privacy and paranoia.

My argument being that:

yes, you're right I/we have nothing to hide but having someone profile me/us and therefore ask questions based on what they know goes against the right to privacy in my opinion and so when entering Israel or the US as examples, I would prefer to know I still have my right to privacy than having a government decide that for me under the disguise of "to combat terror".

Her point of view being:

I know I have zero to hide and so if governments say they will check all emails, texts and phone calls to prevent terror and that saves 1 life then surely that's better than not being able to do so if they didnt check on people

While I can agree her point of view to a point, I see the long term point of view that we are heading towards a closer approximation to a Big Brother Society and would prefer that to be minimalised wherever possible, not paranoia as such, more a case of taking precautions and resisting that particular change.

So, do you think my point of view is overly paranoid? or do you also dislike the idea of all communications being tracked for the reason "to prevent terror"?

In a related point, does anyone know of a alternative exchange hosting company that is stable/reliable in uptime and non US (also preferably non UK and ideally Swedish) based?, although those requirements are probably too specific and better suited to the Technology forum.

[amcdonald]

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't meant they're not out to get you

[sasguru]

2 points:

1. Even before the latest brouhaha, I always assumed that emails and phone calls were not private, rightly or wrongly

2. I don't think where a server is hosted is going to make it any more private.

[cailin maith]

Chef - we've had the same conversations and I hold the same view as new gf Chef (That was quick by the way!!) and Spod is of similar thinking to you.

I don't have anything to hide, I couldn't give a tulip if my texts and emails are read by the security services.

[amcdonald]

If you're that worried use html emails with Steganography for anything a bit sensative, it's better than nothing

[chef]

If you're that worried use html emails with Steganography for anything a bit sensative, it's better than nothing

Agreed, but then thats going a bit over the top IMO when I dont have anything to hide. My main reason is that I am an advocate to the right to privacy and if a government states they actively screen non US citizens electronic communications, my opinion is that it is a breach of privacy. Other governments either do not have the budget to or are openly against such invasions of privacy therefore giving me an alternative. Thus, I see I have 2 options, either accept it and carry on as usual or reject it and take my business elsewhere the same as I could with any other service whereby I am unhappy with the service provider. I choose the latter..

[bobspud]

I follow the view that:
Just because I have nothing to fear or steal it doesn't mean that I give you my permission to look for it or take it.

The people need to retain the right to revolution even if we are too fat or lazy to exercise it. If that means we lose lives today because radical groups want to overthrow the corruption we are to stupid to see or care about then so be it.

We know that the various geo-governments are taking the piss right now and that they are land grabbing as much as they can but most of us think sod it I have nothing to fear why not. Regardless of the I have nothing to hide argument its time to shut the doors.

Tomorrow when quantum computing becomes the norm all the information that we take as harmless today will become a weapon that can be used against us. It won't be hard to find our weaknesses for animal porn or banter on anonymous forums.

[Mich the Tester]

This led to a discussion about the right to privacy and paranoia.

My argument being that:


Her point of view being:


While I can agree her point of view to a point, I see the long term point of view that we are heading towards a closer approximation to a Big Brother Society

Sounds like she's fallen for the old 'nothing to hide, nothing to fear' fallacy.

Something to hide is not necessarily something illegal that the government needs to know.

Something illegal is not necessarily something immoral that the government should be allowed to know.

Anyone who knows a little tiny bit of European history should know that people with 'nothing to hide' have often had quite a lot to fear from their governments.

[OwlHoot]

While I can agree her point of view to a point, I see the long term point of view that we are heading towards a closer approximation to a Big Brother Society and would prefer that to be minimalised wherever possible, not paranoia as such, more a case of taking precautions and resisting that particular change....

One of the biggest problems with allowing the Government more scope for snooping is that there's a big financial incentive for them then to share the privilege with all kinds of other organisations, especially local councils, but also hundreds of other organisations including even some large charities.

Also, the more info about you is known and widely shared like this, the more unpredictable your life potentially comes. Even if you "have nothing to hide", there may be secret policies and prejudices at work behind the scenes to hamper your ability to get planning permission for something, or a new job, medical treatment, access to your kids if you're divorced, etc etc.

Chef GF should also bear in mind that although she may have nothing to hide now, who's to say she might not in the future? (again, even if she's blameless). What if some malevolent government replaced the relatively benign ones we have now? It often happens.

[Mich the Tester]

Chef GF should also bear in mind that although she may have nothing to hide now, who's to say she might not in the future? (again, even if she's blameless). What if some malevolent government replaced the relatively benign ones we have now? It often happens.

whs, it happens much more easily than many people think. I think Mark Rutte (Dutch PM) is a nincompoop, but he's not a scary nincompoop. Geert Wilders on the other hand, who's riding high in the polls...very scary and he came very close to power.