OOP, RDBMS and BTEC

[pjclarke]

Quick poll. pj junior is contemplating a BTEC Level 3 course in software development as an alternate way into Uni to do Comp Sci, after achieved AS grades were less than predicted.

The BTEC is made up of 180 credits, most modules being 10 credits, you have to do 3 mandatory and its all a bit last minute, however we drew up a list of 15 modules that I/we think would provide a good foundation in the biz .... I included OOP and relational database design modules as 'must haves'.

He's had an interview at the nearest college and their course does not cover OOP ('Too hard', and 'covered in other modules' were the excuses). The next nearest offers OOP but no database design. Aaaargh!

What does the panel think? Can a course that neglects relational databases or OOP have any credibility as a serious preparation for a career as a designer/developer? I think not. Agree/Disagree? If you had to choose which to lose, which one would go?

Please - no qualification snobbery, BTECS have come a long way since we were newbies ...

[amcdonald]

You'd learn both at Uni on any sensible IT degree anyway, but with database design if you're lucky they will teach you the theory first and then when to ignore the theory

Whether or not the course is any good from a practical level is almost irrelevant, just look at whether the unis will accept it in lieu of a foundation year etc

[DodgyAgent]

Quick poll. pj junior is contemplating a BTEC Level 3 course in software development as an alternate way into Uni to do Comp Sci, after achieved AS grades were less than predicted.

The BTEC is made up of 180 credits, most modules being 10 credits, you have to do 3 mandatory and its all a bit last minute, however we drew up a list of 15 modules that I/we think would provide a good foundation in the biz .... I included OOP and relational database design modules as 'must haves'.

He's had an interview at the nearest college and their course does not cover OOP ('Too hard', and 'covered in other modules' were the excuses). The next nearest offers OOP but no database design. Aaaargh!

What does the panel think? Can a course that neglects relational databases or OOP have any credibility as a serious preparation for a career as a designer/developer? I think not. Agree/Disagree? If you had to choose which to lose, which one would go?

Please - no qualification snobbery, BTECS have come a long way since we were newbies ...

You should pick the one with the lowest carbon footprint

[doodab]

What does the panel think? Can a course that neglects relational databases or OOP have any credibility as a serious preparation for a career as a designer/developer?

For a career as a software engineer / developer I'd say not.

Whether you would want to study either of those as preparation for a Comp Sci degree is another matter. What did he study before? Why not resit the AS levels?

If you had to choose which to lose, which one would go?

What else is on there?

[pjclarke]

Maths, English, Physics and Chemistry.

We're looking at all the options, however regarding resits, the quality of the teaching at the school is an issue (in Physics the grade dropped from an A at GCSE to an E at AS, all the students on that course failed the practical element). Then there's the Foundation Degree route or an Apprenticeship with the likes of Microsoft or IBM. Bit of a minefield.

Whether or not the course is any good from a practical level is almost irrelevant, just look at whether the unis will accept it in lieu of a foundation year etc

Hmmmm. Not sure I agree with that, we're talking about 2 years of a young life. Shame to 'waste' the time pratting about with Photoshop and Powerpoint and password resets (Multimedia Programming, Communication and Employability Skills for IT, IT Systems Troubleshooting and Repair) when he is 99% certain he wants to go into development. Yes 95% of Unis claim to accept BTEC as a valid alternative to A Level and a full pass with Distinction is worth 360 UCAS points, in theory enough to get you into the likes of Loughborough and Aston, which is where we were aiming .....

What else is on there?

A typical curriculum:

Computer Systems
Computer Systems Architecture
Systems Analysis and Design
Controlling Systems using IT
Digital Graphics
Computer Networks
Developing Computer Games
Managing Networks
IT Systems Troubleshooting and Repair
Computer Animation
Software Design and Development
Multimedia Design
Object Oriented Programming
Human Computer Interaction
Communication and Employability Skills for IT
Website Production
Information Systems
Networked Systems Security

[sasguru]

Forget that soon-to-be-bobbed SC/IT developer stuff.
If he's even slightly academic do a Maths and Stats degree with the OU.
Or get the RSS Diploma in Statistics (equivalent to a degree).
The latter can be done part-time while doing a job if he's motivated enough.
The world won't be able to get enough data analysts soon.

[TheFaQQer]

What are the entry requirements like for Comp Sci at university these days?

I did OOP and database design as part of my degree, which was in management with computing. So, if they are covered in a course like that, I would expect that they are covered by any reasonable degree course.

If you have to pick one of the two, I'd go with database design (but then I would say that) - effective database design is important regardless of the tool used to access the data.

[eek]

Maths, English, Physics and Chemistry.

We're looking at all the options, however regarding resists, the quality of the teaching at the school is an issue (in Physics the grade dropped from an A at GCSE to an E at AS, all the students on that course failed the practical element). Then there's the Foundation Degree route or an Apprenticeship with the likes of Microsoft or IBM. Bit of a minefield.

I would go for a decent apprenticeship with a known firm.

Its a bit of money and things learnt on the job are always better than theoretical learning.

Plus after two / three years you have two/three years of paid experience not just a degree (which no one looks at after 5 years of experience).

[pjclarke]

Forget that soon-to-be-bobbed SC/IT developer stuff.
If he's even slightly academic do a Maths and Stats degree with the OU.

Agree up to a point, we've talked about carrying on the Maths A2 level and including stats, I know how useful it is. However we'll see a Bob backlash before long. My stats is not brill however I can see that according to this very site 'Developer' is still the top contractor skill, twice as well paid, and in terms of the overall jobs, 6 percentage points above 'Analyst' and developers of some flavour or other occupy 4 of the top ten spots.... ;-)

[sasguru]

Agree up to a point, we've talked about carrying on the Maths A2 level and including stats, I know how useful it is. However we'll see a Bob backlash before long. My stats is not brill however I can see that according to this very site 'Developer' is still the top contractor skill, twice as well paid, and in terms of the overall jobs, 6 percentage points above 'Analyst' and developers of some flavour or other occupy 4 of the top ten spots.... ;-)

That's because "Analyst" on there doesn't mean statistician.
According to that "developers" earn only £35 ph.

Lets hope the young un has better analytical skills than his dad, eh?