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CanPayButWouldRatherNot
18th September 2013, 14:28
This thread is for those with loans/EBT's from 2008/9 and on with Montpelier and allied companies.

Many will, like me, have been using the previous scheme that was impacted by BN66 and will be familiar with the current thread managed by the tireless folks behind NTRT (thanks to DR et al).

The intention here is to have a distinct thread for Montpelier loan users in addition to the generic EBT/loan thread.


Montpelier have been supportive through the BN66 campaign and sincerely hope this continues for those of us that stuck with them into the loan scheme.

bombaycat
25th September 2013, 16:56
...

Montpelier have been supportive through the BN66 campaign and sincerely hope this continues for those of us that stuck with them into the loan scheme.

Yes same service seems to apply response being prepared for me as usual.

DealorNoDeal
3rd May 2015, 12:14
I thought it probably best not to air this on the BN66 thread.

If you claim TAA for the BN66 scheme is there a risk that HMRC could use it against the loan scheme?

The rules on EBTs changed in 2011, I think, to outlaw them for employees. If HMRC could argue that you were employed, not self-employed, then you could expose yourself for years 2011-2014.

Does that make sense at all?

Laxmi
3rd May 2015, 15:49
I thought it probably best not to air this on the BN66 thread.

If you claim TAA for the BN66 scheme is there a risk that HMRC could use it against the loan scheme?

The rules on EBTs changed in 2011, I think, to outlaw them for employees. If HMRC could argue that you were employed, not self-employed, then you could expose yourself for years 2011-2014.

Does that make sense at all?

Thanks for pointing that out. I have a twice the liability for the Loan scheme :-(

the great escape
3rd May 2015, 16:32
I thought it probably best not to air this on the BN66 thread.

If you claim TAA for the BN66 scheme is there a risk that HMRC could use it against the loan scheme?

The rules on EBTs changed in 2011, I think, to outlaw them for employees. If HMRC could argue that you were employed, not self-employed, then you could expose yourself for years 2011-2014.

Does that make sense at all?
I could see them applying that logic. Have come to the same conclusion myself. They could potentially plough the lane of contractors claiming SE via an intermediate - whatever form it takes.

What about employed via EBT before 2011? Chance to re-use the time machine or are HMRC all out of flux capacitors?

lucozade
3rd May 2015, 17:58
I thought it probably best not to air this on the BN66 thread.

If you claim TAA for the BN66 scheme is there a risk that HMRC could use it against the loan scheme?

The rules on EBTs changed in 2011, I think, to outlaw them for employees. If HMRC could argue that you were employed, not self-employed, then you could expose yourself for years 2011-2014.

Does that make sense at all?

That's good then as I jumped out of EBTs before 2011.

I fully intend to use the TAA argument as I have no other choice but to deal with what is currently in front of me.

CanPayButWouldRatherNot
4th May 2015, 07:56
That's good then as I jumped out of EBTs before 2011.

I fully intend to use the TAA argument as I have no other choice but to deal with what is currently in front of me.


I have to say the only EBT loan stuff I see getting any action on here are all the other edge/norla schemes .....on other threads ..radio silence from HMRC and MTM on their loan schemes.

Like you guys ... a bit worried about the pulling the george trigger

the great escape
4th May 2015, 08:16
I have to say the only EBT loan stuff I see getting any action on here are all the other edge/norla schemes .....on other threads ..radio silence from HMRC and MTM on their loan schemes.

Like you guys ... a bit worried about the pulling the george trigger
Were edge etc. all SE via EBT?

DonkeyRhubarb
4th May 2015, 08:56
Were edge etc. all SE via EBT?

Most of the pre-2011 schemes like Edge, Sanzar, were employment based.

the great escape
4th May 2015, 10:11
Most of the pre-2011 schemes like Edge, Sanzar, were employment based.
And looking across the threads, all those 'employment based' chaps have received APNs, who inturn have got their own appeals going on. Out of a frying pan, into another although not as hot for some as the first one. Of course if you could show that 'post George' you returned to SE then it's sorted.

Laxmi
5th May 2015, 17:16
Hi, the MTM was self employed not employees, I left that early 2010 (thankfuly!).
HMRC have lost the loan tribunals twice why are they allowed to appeal - hopefully
they won't be allowed to use their time machine on this as well!

TheFlyer
5th May 2015, 18:30
Is there a cut off time period before they cannot open a discovery for been on the MtM EBT scheme? Or can they use the time machine on this as well? Also has anyone that was on the MtM EBT scheme got an APN from using this scheme?

DonkeyRhubarb
5th May 2015, 18:45
Is there a cut off time period before they cannot open a discovery for been on the MtM EBT scheme? Or can they use the time machine on this as well? Also has anyone that was on the MtM EBT scheme got an APN from using this scheme?

Depends on the tax year. Discovery time limits have changed over the years.

The scheme wasn't disclosed under DOTAS so it's not on the list for APNs.

the great escape
7th May 2015, 15:38
Why can't 'someone' use the timing of DRL circa 2010 and say every SE thing before that date is kosher? Why the need to hang about.

StrengthInNumbers
7th May 2015, 16:19
Why can't 'someone' use the timing of DRL circa 2010 and say every SE thing before that date is kosher? Why the need to hang about.

Err...... Because they want money? And with power in their hands they can get the money

the great escape
7th May 2015, 17:24
Err...... Because they want money? And with power in their hands they can get the money

I mean 'someone' applying on our behalf to get things closed off - is there a case for this? E types have got APNs but SE types via Monty have not been challenged. The CCW circular further emphasises the pre DRL exclusion. Might be an extra for the CCW posse to examine.

TheFlyer
7th May 2015, 19:37
I mean 'someone' applying on our behalf to get things closed off - is there a case for this? E types have got APNs but SE types via Monty have not been challenged. The CCW circular further emphasises the pre DRL exclusion. Might be an extra for the CCW posse to examine.

That is all that goes through my head every day. I done one year in 2009 after switching from the previous scheme on WG advice and all I do is worry about this one as I just about have the other one covered. I counted the months then years since I left it and think am I ok now or not. I have a friend that joined AML and I warned them it could happen and now they have their APNs, they are in bits, but still keep using AML. I guess it's like a drug......

LandRover
7th May 2015, 20:26
That is all that goes through my head every day. I done one year in 2009 after switching from the previous scheme on WG advice and all I do is worry about this one as I just about have the other one covered. I counted the months then years since I left it and think am I ok now or not. I have a friend that joined AML and I warned them it could happen and now they have their APNs, they are in bits, but still keep using AML. I guess it's like a drug......

I don't think it's a drug but a need to wake up and realise that you are only prolonging the agony. AML promised me around Dec 2010 they will look after any issues HMRC raise and no need to worry...took me another year to realise I was being stupid in believing them as more and more legilsation was being aimed at EBT schemes. It's a sales spin to stay with them, they will look after you blah blah...

TheFlyer
7th May 2015, 21:55
I don't think it's a drug but a need to wake up and realise that you are only prolonging the agony. AML promised me around Dec 2010 they will look after any issues HMRC raise and no need to worry...took me another year to realise I was being stupid in believing them as more and more legilsation was being aimed at EBT schemes. It's a sales spin to stay with them, they will look after you blah blah...

How long till AML lose all their income and they fold up and run, that crosses my mind. Back to the point we were on MtM EBT and will this time bomb explode or will someone or something defuse for those on it till 2010..... Five years plus now and nothing from Brannigan and his gang on this.... My mind roles am I in the clear because it was pukka or will they use the time machine.... I hope the monster raving looney party wins tonight...:happy

MMSguru
13th May 2015, 20:32
The scheme wasn't disclosed under DOTAS so it's not on the list for APNs.

Ah, finally found the right thread! Is this the only reason MP users haven't received APNs for 08/09 onwards?

the great escape
13th May 2015, 21:04
Ah, finally found the right thread! Is this the only reason MP users haven't received APNs for 08/09 onwards?
It would appear so MG. Little back from Monty on the subject. Only 'not been challenged yet'. Like sun-bathing in a mine field.

MMSguru
14th May 2015, 16:46
It would appear so MG. Little back from Monty on the subject. Only 'not been challenged yet'. Like sun-bathing in a mine field.

Ok, thanks TGE. I think this is good news. :ohwell

the great escape
16th May 2015, 19:14
Does anyone know where us pre-Dec 2010 lot stand with regards to Inheritance Tax (IHT) on these loans? Is that a nightmare within a nightmare?

TheFlyer
17th May 2015, 00:26
Does anyone know where us pre-Dec 2010 lot stand with regards to Inheritance Tax (IHT) on these loans? Is that a nightmare within a nightmare?

First I have heard of that. It just get's worse. What is this about IHT? Has anyone been written to about 2008/2009 ?

the great escape
17th May 2015, 08:47
First I have heard of that. It just get's worse. What is this about IHT? Has anyone been written to about 2008/2009 ?
I think it's something to seek advice from Monty on. I will try to contact this week to find out.

CanPayButWouldRatherNot
22nd May 2015, 09:43
so NTRT doing a fab job with the BN66 stuff ...but for the loan scheme with MTM ... should we be joining the BIG GROUP .. or stick with MTM ?

WelshRarebit
22nd May 2015, 11:28
I'm joining 'Big Group' now just in case Monty go belly up at some point in the future. I don't want to find that the Big Group drawbridge is up at that stage. Should the brown stuff not actually hit the fan then I will have helped others shaft it to Hector :moon:, it's small change at the moment.

TheFlyer
22nd May 2015, 13:36
I'm joining 'Big Group' now just in case Monty go belly up at some point in the future. I don't want to find that the Big Group drawbridge is up at that stage. Should the brown stuff not actually hit the fan then I will have helped others shaft it to Hector :moon:, it's small change at the moment.

What is the Big Group doing?

Has anyone with MtM on the loan scheme had a letter about it? As in any kind of investigation letter?

WelshRarebit
22nd May 2015, 14:34
What is the Big Group doing?

Has anyone with MtM on the loan scheme had a letter about it? As in any kind of investigation letter?

'BIG GROUP is ONE GROUP across ALL schemes.

It does not impact action individuals may wish to take on their own or via other groups.'

See here: http://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc-scheme-enquiries/106016-big-group.html#post2085724

I've had nothing other than being put under enquiry. Not even a letter about the settlement opportunity.

TheFlyer
22nd May 2015, 15:01
'BIG GROUP is ONE GROUP across ALL schemes.

It does not impact action individuals may wish to take on their own or via other groups.'

See here: http://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc-scheme-enquiries/106016-big-group.html#post2085724

I've had nothing other than being put under enquiry. Not even a letter about the settlement opportunity.


Enquiry for what year or years? If you don't mind me asking. Reason I ask all this is none of the others I know that did the loan scheme have had anything, but all done for been on the income scheme upto 2008.

WelshRarebit
26th May 2015, 11:24
So, your saying that you're not under enquiry for any year you were in the loan scheme, or those you know who were also in the scheme? I thought that following being caught by S58 you'd automatically have enquiries opened for each and every subsequent year.

TheFlyer
26th May 2015, 13:10
So, your saying that you're not under enquiry for any year you were in the loan scheme, or those you know who were also in the scheme? I thought that following being caught by S58 you'd automatically have enquiries opened for each and every subsequent year.

From what I have asked and found out, the loan scheme is not DOTAS registered and they we are not been done at the moment. To be honest I have no idea. All I can do is try and raise the money and put it by I guess. Thing is the accruing interest on it that is a real issue. Someone told me once that 2008/2009 was OK on the loan scheme, and it is the years after that where they will get you. Any idea if that is true or not?

webberg
26th May 2015, 13:13
so NTRT doing a fab job with the BN66 stuff ...but for the loan scheme with MTM ... should we be joining the BIG GROUP .. or stick with MTM ?

Or both.

If MTM is free and BG cheap, why not do both?

TheFlyer
26th May 2015, 13:55
Or both.

If MTM is free and BG cheap, why not do both?

So what if you done the MTM loan scheme and never heard anything from HMRC?

webberg
26th May 2015, 15:30
From what I have asked and found out, the loan scheme is not DOTAS registered and they we are not been done at the moment. To be honest I have no idea. All I can do is try and raise the money and put it by I guess. Thing is the accruing interest on it that is a real issue. Someone told me once that 2008/2009 was OK on the loan scheme, and it is the years after that where they will get you. Any idea if that is true or not?

If the scheme is not DOTAS, then no APN (for the moment).
If you have not had an enquiry letter/discovery assessment, no liability for periods before 2011/12.
If you remain worried about interest (3% pa) put the cash "by" in the form of a Certificate of Tax Deposit that will effectively stop the interest accruing.
No idea about 08/09 onwards on your scheme

webberg
26th May 2015, 15:31
So what if you done the MTM loan scheme and never heard anything from HMRC?

If you have no enquiry open, join neither.

TheFlyer
26th May 2015, 20:57
If the scheme is not DOTAS, then no APN (for the moment).
If you have not had an enquiry letter/discovery assessment, no liability for periods before 2011/12.
If you remain worried about interest (3% pa) put the cash "by" in the form of a Certificate of Tax Deposit that will effectively stop the interest accruing.
No idea about 08/09 onwards on your scheme

So if no enquiry for April 2009 to April 2011 you are ok? After that I assume the laws changed and you can be done, is that correct? Is that what you are saying? What if you were investigated for other years prior to this on another scheme? Cheers.