PDA

View Full Version : Thank you Boris



DodgyAgent
3rd August 2006, 08:46
In the telegraph today Boris Johnson argues eloquently about the moralities of killing children/civilians in war. Forget the stuff about Mel Gibson (the famous presenter of that well known documentary "Braveheart" and his struggle to come to terms with his support for the Iraq war, here are the good bits:

Of course anti-Americanism wins votes, especially if, like Jack Straw, you have a seat with a lot of Muslims. But show me how it works, this proposed spanking new "independent" British policy on Israel? Presumably we join France and Germany in their vapourings. Presumably we join the European Commission in encouraging the pouring of further squillions down the gullets of the brutal and corrupt Palestinian government.

Then what? Then nothing. The real problem in the region is not Israel, but what it represents to the Islamicists who surround it. The difference between Israel and her neighbours is that Israel is a capitalist democracy, with all the freedom and tawdriness that entails. They don't give a monkey's in Teheran about the fate of the poor Palestinians. Israel incarnates everything the mullahs hate, not least the spectacle of liberated womanhood that they find so appalling and so shamingly tempting.

Israel provides a focus for the resentment of a Muslim civilisation that finds itself materially and intellectually humiliated by the achievements of America and the West. Indeed, Israel provides a convenient proxy target for people in this country who loathe the Yo-Blair way America bosses us around, and who resent our enclitic status: not so much the parrot on America's shoulder as the monkey in the pocket of an organ-grinder who is himself controlled by a vast Zionist conspiracy.

Well, let me remind Mel and all his secret British sympathisers of two last differences between Israel and the Islamicists. Whatever the hideous shambles of the past few days, it is still true, in principle, that when Israeli rockets kill civilians, they have missed their targets, and that when Hizbollah rockets kill civilians, they have scored a deliberate hit.

That is a moral difference that needs to be dinned into the skull of every saloon-bar strategist currently denouncing Israel. Finally, Mel, if you want to get wasted on tequilas and sheilas, you're much better off in Tel Aviv than Teheran.

Boris Johnson is MP for Henley

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/08/03/do0301.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2006/08/03/ixopinion.html


DA in "Going for 100 postings thread" mode :)

AtW
3rd August 2006, 08:53
DA in "Going for 100 postings thread" mode :)

"Test please delete" has now triggered post inflation and even infamous "Columbian Hostages" thread now appears as puny as achievements of that football club that shaun-bhoy supports. http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif

DodgyAgent
3rd August 2006, 09:03
Wonderful.

I now have a new word: "enclitic".

I shall endeavour to use it incorrectly wherever possible. :D

Do you think it is derived from clitoris?

sasguru
3rd August 2006, 09:06
Sadly not.

Late Latin encliticus, from Greek enklitikos, from enklnein, to lean on : en-, on, in; see en-2 + klnein, to lean; see klei- in Indo-European Roots.]

DodgyAgent
3rd August 2006, 09:08
Sadly not.

Late Latin encliticus, from Greek enklitikos, from enklnein, to lean on : en-, on, in; see en-2 + klnein, to lean; see klei- in Indo-European Roots.]

Have you been reading "Clits for Dummies" SAS? :)

sasguru
3rd August 2006, 09:16
Have you been reading "Clits for Dummies" SAS? :)

No, "Advanced Clitoral Manipulation using Arrays" :D

xoggoth
3rd August 2006, 11:47
Despite appearances, very sensible chap Boris. Should have been Tory leader instead of the blithering Cameron.

Indeed, as I said a couple of days back, it is perfectly clear from the scale of the casualties that there is no deliberate targetting of civilians by Israel, as they could easily have killed tens of thousands by now.

No military expert but I would have thought that dropping a single bomb in a major commercial area or densely populated urban area of Beirut or other major town or city would kill a hundred or more almost every time. He is also quite right to say that when Islamic groups strike anywhere in the world they do not give a damn about hitting civilians.

ratewhore
3rd August 2006, 11:49
He's my MP - I think he's great...

:cool2:

Dundeegeorge
3rd August 2006, 11:51
He is also quite right to say that when Islamic groups strike anywhere in the world they do not give a damn about hitting civilians.

When Islamic groups strike anywhere in the world they intend to hit civilians, it's not accidental or collateral (that covers a multitude of sins, that collateral damage).

AlfredJPruffock
3rd August 2006, 11:57
He is also quite right to say that when Islamic groups strike anywhere in the world they do not give a damn about hitting civilians.

When Islamic groups strike anywhere in the world they intend to hit civilians, it's not accidental or collateral (that covers a multitude of sins, that collateral damage).

Did the US give a damn about those thousands of Iraqi civillians, inlcuding Christians, they killed during their savage bombing, Shock and Awe they called it ?

And what exactly has this destruction of Iraq achvieved, a destruction which was ordained by GW Bush because God had told him to do it?

As far as I can see US religous political fanatacism and Islamic fanatacism are two sides of the same coin, both are equally repugnant and cancerous.

Fungus
3rd August 2006, 11:58
Simplistic bollox. It is possible to see Israel as a democratic country, not be anti-American and yet still be critical of the killing of large numbers of civilians.

This has always been Israel's line, that they do not purposefully target civilians, hence killing them is nothing more than unfortunate. I disagree. It is always the little people who die when Big Men are waving their willies around and shouting "Look how big it is".

But then again, it's in the nature of journalism to characterise those you disagree with in simplistic terms as one homogeneous group, and then knock them down.

stackpole
3rd August 2006, 12:35
Boris should have been Tory leader instead of the blithering Cameron.Now come on xog. Can you imagine what it would be like if that really happened?

People like Boris because he is entertaining, not because he is a leader. The tories might just as well have Jim Davidson! :rollin:

DodgyAgent
3rd August 2006, 13:27
Did the US give a damn about those thousands of Iraqi civillians, inlcuding Christians, they killed during their savage bombing, Shock and Awe they called it ?

And what exactly has this destruction of Iraq achvieved, a destruction which was ordained by GW Bush because God had told him to do it?

As far as I can see US religous political fanatacism and Islamic fanatacism are two sides of the same coin, both are equally repugnant and cancerous.

If you fail to accept the concept of what Boris is saying then there is no difference between killing an innocent civilian deliberatly or not. According to your (twisted) logic any act of war (which includes the allied bombing of Germany in WW2, the war in Kosovo or any war for that matter) is on a par with the a war that sets out to attack civilians as a specific and deliberate target. So I do not undertsand why you confine your outrage to Iraq (Americans and Israelis). Why not the American/Nato bombing in Serbia, Montenegro and Kosovo, the bombing of Germany in WW2. These were equally reprehensible according to your logic. Or is it maybe the old guilt thing again about you and your ilk?