government approves £800m Lochaber hydro scheme

[scooterscot]

cool, battery on-demand, excess wind and wave energy pumps water upstairs. 15 of these could match all UK nuclear power stations generating capacity combined, - and be switched on quicker too. Just hope the wind & waves pick up again after they've empty the lochs out! But that's just a capacity problem.

BBC News - Scottish government approves £800m Lochaber hydro scheme

Scottish government approves £800m Lochaber hydro scheme

13 December 2013 Last updated at 12:53
Visualisation of Coire Glas damA visualisation of the dam that would be built for the project
The Scottish government has given its backing to a proposed new £800m hydro-electric scheme in Lochaber.

SSE plans to construct the 600MW project at Coire Glas, near Spean Bridge if the investment goes ahead.

The development would be Scotland's biggest ever pumped storage scheme but objectors warn it could damage tourism.

The John Muir Trust (JMT) objected to the planning application and has concerns that the project would have a "severe impact" on the landscape.

Scottish Natural Heritage had also said it would have a major negative impact on the local landscape and views would be significantly affected.

The pump storage hydro scheme is designed to "soak up" excess power generated by wind and wave farms, using it to pump water up to a reservoir.

That water is then released through tunnels to generate hydro electric power at times when consumers need it.

Those in favour of such schemes describe them as "green batteries", but opponents argue they use more energy than they produce.

Dam at Cruachan hydro scheme The dam for the Cruachan hydro scheme in Argyll
SSE's Foyers hydro scheme on Loch Ness and ScottishPower's Cruachan project in Argyll both have a pumped storage element to them, but smaller than what has been proposed for Coire Glas.

Foyer's is 300MW and Cruachan is 440MW.

If SSE decides to invest in Coire Glas construction would take five to six years from 2015 and create about 150 jobs.

It would involve the construction of a dam, reservoir, underground power station and water tunnels in the hills above Loch Lochy.

Jim Smith, managing director of SSE Renewables, said that, while the government's consent was "very positive", other challenges remained.

He said: "SSE is now keen to engage further with both the UK and Scottish governments, as well as other relevant organisations, to develop an appropriate solution to the commercial challenges that could enable what would be an important asset for the UK energy system to progress."

'Gold rush'
Energy Minister Fergus Ewing granted the planning consent for the Coire Glas.

He said: "This development will bring many benefits to local trades being involved at various stages throughout the project.

"There will also be some indirect jobs resulting from the supply of goods, materials and services for construction."

Mr Ewing added: "With a huge 600MW generating capacity, this scheme will be by far the most powerful of its kind in Scotland. Whilst generating it will have the potential to provide up to 10% of Scotland's estimated peak electricity demand."

Scottish Renewables, an organisation representing the interests of energy developers, has welcomed the government's decision.

Senior policy manager Joss Blamire said: "This hydro scheme will act like a battery storing electricity for when it's needed most."

Helen McDade, head of policy at JMT, said the it had raised an objection on landscape grounds.

However, she added that experts had also advised the trust that pumped storage was an expensive option and the construction of conventional hydro schemes was being ignored.

JMT, a landscape conservation charity, has been calling on the Scottish and UK governments to have a "coherent" strategy on renewable projects, and not give consent on an "ad hoc" basis.

Ms McDade said: "It is a gold rush. There is so much money in renewables and energy companies are throwing up renewables as fast as possible."

[VectraMan]

cool, battery on-demand, excess wind and wave energy pumps water upstairs. 15 of these could match all UK nuclear power stations generating capacity combined, - and be switched on quicker too. Just hope the wind & waves pick up again after they've empty the lochs out! But that's just a capacity problem.

Not really; it doesn't actually generate any power at all. There's some way to go before wind generates enough power to match the UK nuclear output, and for this scheme to work it would have to be surplus power. And that's assuming the "battery" is 100% efficient, which of course it isn't. If the pumping is 50% efficient, and the generation is 50% efficient, then that's only 25% overall. So you need enough windmills to be generating 4x the UK's nuclear output, in addition to the current demand, for this scheme to match it.

Seems to me that if you're going to spend the money building dams and blotting the landscape it would be much better to build a conventional hydro-electric plant that can produce power all day long, and can be switched on and off quickly to cover demand.

[scooterscot]

disassembling time already.

Not really; it doesn't actually generate any power at all.

The turbines turn as the water passes, electricity is produced. That's power generation.

There's some way to go before wind generates enough power to match the UK nuclear output, and for this scheme to work it would have to be surplus power. And that's assuming the "battery" is 100% efficient, which of course it isn't. If the pumping is 50% efficient, and the generation is 50% efficient, then that's only 25% overall. So you need enough windmills to be generating 4x the UK's nuclear output, in addition to the current demand, for this scheme to match it..

The facility is using surplus wind & *wave* energy to pump water back up. Please provide an example of a system that is 100% efficient? Most cars aren't 20% efficient, get them off the road now!!

Seems to me that if you're going to spend the money building dams and blotting the landscape it would be much better to build a conventional hydro-electric plant that can produce power all day long, and can be switched on and off quickly to cover demand.

It is a hydro-electric plant.

[hyperD]

Or you could just build a conventional 600GW CCGT that provides power 24/7 for a third of the price, regardless of whether the wind is blowing or not when you most need the power, for example.

[AtW]

Or you could just build a conventional 600GW CCGT that provides power 24/7 for a third of the price, regardless of whether the wind is blowing or not when you most need the power, for example.

It might be very good option in addition to other diversified sources of power.

[hyperD]

It might be very good option in addition to other diversified sources of power.

Well, we could run a slice of our power producing capacity on unicorn farts as part of a diversification package, just means your airline ticket to Paris will cost you about ten grand.

[scooterscot]

Or you could just build a conventional 600GW CCGT that provides power 24/7 for a third of the price, regardless of whether the wind is blowing or not when you most need the power, for example.

Is gas not a finite resource with a volatile price?

[hyperD]

Is gas not a finite resource with a volatile price?

No. Yes.

[VectraMan]

The turbines turn as the water passes, electricity is produced. That's power generation.

If it consumes more power than it generates then it isn't power generation. The battery in my car can provide power, but I wouldn't call that a generator.

The facility is using surplus wind & *wave* energy to pump water back up. Please provide an example of a system that is 100% efficient? Most cars aren't 20% efficient, get them off the road now!!

Did I suggest anything is 100% efficient? If my entirely made up numbers are true, then most (i.e. 75%) of that surplus is being wasted, which you have to admit isn't great. I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing, but it's perhaps something to be brought in later - i.e. if and when we do have a big surplus of renewable power, rather than now when renewables are a small slice. It almost seems like this sort of scheme is being brought forward to try to make all the money thrown at wind look less ridiculous, rather than doing what's actually most effective.

Does Scotland not have lots of valleys with rivers that could be dammed to produce actual power? Even England has lots of former water mills that presumably could be adapted to produce small amounts of electricity without huge cost.

[scooterscot]

If it consumes more power than it generates then it isn't power generation. The battery in my car can provide power, but I wouldn't call that a generator.

If the power is surplus to requirements we might as well use it. On numerous occasions, not the future this happens right now, SSE through on the brakes on wind farms around the country charging the taxpayer for privilege because it would put to much energy on grid. It seems to me using those spikes surplus to pump water is a good.

Did I suggest anything is 100% efficient? If my entirely made up numbers are true, then most (i.e. 75%) of that surplus is being wasted, which you have to admit isn't great. .

No and yes. 75% wasted, just like driving a car.

Does Scotland not have lots of valleys with rivers that could be dammed to produce actual power? Even England has lots of former water mills that presumably could be adapted to produce small amounts of electricity without huge cost.

The current pump storage facility in Loch awe uses tunnels to neighbouring lochs and river systems. Annually this makes 10% of the capacity. I'm convinced there's plenty more opportunity. I grew up that way and almost developed webbed feet. Our lack of ambition to do something and our fondness for bureaucracy keeps us in the doldrums.