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Sergeant Alexander Blackman, Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale

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    Sergeant Alexander Blackman, Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale

    One, a soldier found guilty of murdering a radical Islamist in Afghanistan, and the other two, radical Islamists found guilty of murdering an off-duty soldier in London.

    What are the esteemed panel's views on comparisons and contrasts between the two cases and between the guilty parties?

    #2
    Good call. Sgt Blackman, from what I understand, saw several tours of Afghanistan and was likely suffering PTSD. The person he shot was already badly injured (not that I think that is an excuse for taking the life of someone who wasn't an immediate threat) and had been trying to kill them.

    Ade & Ade killed a man going about his own business in the most brutal and callous way.

    What do you think?

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by administrator View Post
      Good call. Sgt Blackman, from what I understand, saw several tours of Afghanistan and was likely suffering PTSD. The person he shot was already badly injured (not that I think that is an excuse for taking the life of someone who wasn't an immediate threat) and had been trying to kill them.

      Ade & Ade killed a man going about his own business in the most brutal and callous way.

      What do you think?
      I'm not getting involved.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by administrator View Post
        Ade & Ade killed a man going about his own business in the most brutal and callous way.
        Do you think the British forces have never killed anyone in Afghanistan who was "going about his own business"?

        All three are murderers, though I'm sure two of them will be serving much longer sentences than the third.
        Will work inside IR35. Or for food.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by VectraMan View Post
          Do you think the British forces have never killed anyone in Afghanistan who was "going about his own business"?

          All three are murderers, though I'm sure two of them will be serving much longer sentences than the third.
          I bet it's the other way.
          What happens in General, stays in General.
          You know what they say about assumptions!

          Comment


            #6
            As much sympathy as I have for the guy's friends and family, it's part of being a soldier. It's only the afghan's lack of resources needed to launch an invasion here, as the UK invaded there, which affords british soldiers the ability to claim 'off duty' as a reason to not be attacked.

            Whether it's murder or just war? Whether you do your killing in a particular costume, in a particular place, or not, the result is the same. But when I was a soldier and northern Ireland was still an big-ish issue, people didn't wear uniform or 'team' sweatshirts outside of work, etc, because there wasn't really such a thing as 'off duty'. Despite the distances being much further now, it's still part of being a soldier.

            I was drinking recently with a bootneck who got binned a couple of years back for beating up a taliban with a welly. He's a nice guy, but if he were allowed to stay despite breaking the geneva convention should other signatories still abide by it? I'm not necessarily saying that the UK SHOULD be signed up to the geneva convention - but if the UK is then presumably it should't be just window dressing. It's worth remembering why the convention exists in the first place.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by SpontaneousOrder View Post
              As much sympathy as I have for the guy's friends and family, it's part of being a soldier. It's only the afghan's lack of resources needed to launch an invasion here, as the UK invaded there, which affords british soldiers the ability to claim 'off duty' as a reason to not be attacked.

              Whether it's murder or just war? Whether you do your killing in a particular costume, in a particular place, or not, the result is the same. But when I was a soldier and northern Ireland was still an big-ish issue, people didn't wear uniform or 'team' sweatshirts outside of work, etc, because there wasn't really such a thing as 'off duty'. Despite the distances being much further now, it's still part of being a soldier.

              I was drinking recently with a bootneck who got binned a couple of years back for beating up a taliban with a welly. He's a nice guy, but if he were allowed to stay despite breaking the geneva convention should other signatories still abide by it? I'm not necessarily saying that the UK SHOULD be signed up to the geneva convention - but if the UK is then presumably it should't be just window dressing. It's worth remembering why the convention exists in the first place.
              As an ex-squaddie myself, that Sgt deserves the sentence for being so bone stupid to commit a murder while wearing a camera and then doing nothing about it. I know that there are many squaddies out there who'd struggle to count beyond their digits but that's dumb to the point of ridiculousness. But for the camera, he'd have not even been investigated and the death would have been marked as killed in combat and NFA. Also, you need people you can rely on backing you up and if someone's so screwed in the head, be it through PTSD or just a general screw-loose, that they'll murder someone then you need to be looking at his unit to see why it wasn't spotted earlier; one guy I served with in NI was sent back to the German barracks rear-party after he was overheard mumbling about "just you wait Paddy, I'll get that rubber bullet right in your eyeball next time" after a particularly nasty few weeks.

              I think it was an utterly dumb act allowing squaddies to wear uniform out of barracks when off-duty, we still have too many people who will treat them as the enemy. It also stops the swaggering nutjobs among the ranks from acting as if they're the saviour of the human race while walking around when every clued-up squaddie I know would rather walk around in a mankini than uniform off-duty. I still take a wide approach to my car out of habit to see what's underneath it and randomly run my fingers through the wheel arches as I walk past...
              Last edited by craig1; 19 December 2013, 22:22. Reason: typo

              Comment


                #8
                At least the Muslims had the decency to admit it and explain why they did it rather than the crying to the gallery act, "oh the stress I was under". tulipebag.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I'd have thought the greater question is are muslims compatible with western democracy, everything stems from there unless you're a socialist
                  Doing the needful since 1827

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I can certainly put myself in the shoes of Afghans, Iraqis or Pakistanis whose areas have been droned, I expect I'd feel much the same way about any invaders of the UK regardless of what some British had done.

                    However, I also think such comparison are irrelevant. These were not from any of those countries, the only common link is Islam. People who talk about peaceful or tolerant Islam are living in a dream world of ignorance. I am not suggesting all Muslims are extremists but it is true that Islam is a political creed as much as a religious one and that people like this are not something separate from Islam but rather the extreme end of a normal distribution that is very slewed towards fundamentalism compared with other major religions.

                    Another factor which crops up regularly, as in this case, is the participation of those from third world countries who fail to integrate and fail to succeed in our society. It really does not matter why when we do not have any duty to take them in. If our governments had ever had an ounce of sense they would have been monitoring performance of migrants from every country for the last 60 years and raising the bar for any who proved to be a problem.
                    bloggoth

                    If everything isn't black and white, I say, 'Why the hell not?'
                    John Wayne (My guru, not to be confused with my beloved prophet Jeremy Clarkson)

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