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mickey
24th December 2013, 03:32
In layman terms and how can the skill be acquired?

NotAllThere
24th December 2013, 05:44
You can't acquire this skill, you can only develop any innate ability you have. Some people simply are no good at leading.

Leaders are easy to spot. They go in a particular direction and others follow.

mickey
24th December 2013, 06:33
Funny, most books on leadership teach you how to become a leader overnight.

If it can't be acquired is it in the genes then?

What makes other people follow? Charisma, bullying?

MarillionFan
24th December 2013, 06:40
Funny, most books on leadership teach you how to become a leader overnight.

If it can't be acquired is it in the genes then?

What makes other people follow? Charisma, bullying?

Some can and some can't. I have this discussion all the time with one of my managers who wants to progress his career. He's just not forceful enough, a nice guy and his voice gets drowned out, I on the other hand have a big gob. I think that helps.

It's the same with strategy. Some can see the big picture some can't.

EternalOptimist
24th December 2013, 08:34
Being a leader means simply that, taking the lead. Showing the way. you dont need a big gob, you can do it quietly, leading by example.

Who is the first person to start washing the cups ? that person is taking the lead, others follow. Doing positive things that help the team, and nothing negative. Treat people with fairness and respect

and that means when their back it turned.

we have all met the snides with big gobs who slate everyone as soon as they leave the room. They mistake bullying for leadership. dont do it.

positive stroking. say one nice thing to everyone once a day. It quickly becomes a habit and then a nice trait.

It's not about making big strategic decisions and getting them right every time, you will only get to do that once in a blue moon. There was only one battle of waterloo, but there were a million little incidents that led up to it

MarillionFan
24th December 2013, 08:40
Being a leader means simply that, taking the lead. Showing the way. you dont need a big gob, you can do it quietly, leading by example.

Who is the first person to start washing the cups ? that person is taking the lead, others follow. Doing positive things that help the team, and nothing negative. Treat people with fairness and respect

and that means when their back it turned.

we have all met the snides with big gobs who slate everyone as soon as they leave the room. They mistake bullying for leadership. dont do it.

positive stroking. say one nice thing to everyone once a day. It quickly becomes a habit and then a nice trait.

It's not about making big strategic decisions and getting them right every time, you will only get to do that once in a blue moon. There was only one battle of waterloo, but there were a million little incidents that led up to it

Says the man doing the dishes. :winker:

Friends, Romans, Countrymen. Lend me your dishcloths. :rollin:

SueEllen
24th December 2013, 08:55
Some can and some can't. I have this discussion all the time with one of my managers who wants to progress his career. He's just not forceful enough, a nice guy and his voice gets drowned out, I on the other hand have a big gob. I think that helps.

It's the same with strategy. Some can see the big picture some can't.

I've had people try and lead me with big gobs - my first instinct is they are full of shit.

You can have a big gob but it's actually the way you talk not the volume of your voice that commands respect.

Ruprect
24th December 2013, 09:07
positive stroking once a day quickly becomes a habit



Leadership by :winker:? Where can we buy your new book EO?

;)

EternalOptimist
24th December 2013, 09:15
Leadership by :winker:? Where can we buy your new book EO?

;)

heh heh.

looking good today Roopers. Have you done something with your hair ?

malvolio
24th December 2013, 09:26
You're a leader if you merely suggest to the team that "something" needs to be done idea and it happens. :smile You need to be a little carful doing that though too often, remember Thomas a'BEckett...


You can learn how to give orders, set objectives and targets and to speak up when necessary. That's just Acting Masterclass 101. Getting people to trust you and your decision-making, believe that you will support them, will recognise their efforts and allow them to develop is not something you can learn to do, only learn that you can't do. There's a big gap between a manager and a leader.

VectraMan
24th December 2013, 09:43
I've had people try and lead me with big gobs - my first instinct is they are full of tulip.

You can have a big gob but it's actually the way you talk not the volume of your voice that commands respect.

WSS. Really great leaders don't have to say much, but everyone listens to what they do say, because they have respect. And nobody wants to be in a team where the big-gobbed team leader never lets anyone else get a word in; a good leader gets the most out of his team and you don't do that by not listening to them.

russell
24th December 2013, 09:56
Some can and some can't. I have this discussion all the time with one of my managers who wants to progress his career. He's just not forceful enough, a nice guy and his voice gets drowned out, I on the other hand have a big gob. I think that helps.

It's the same with strategy. Some can see the big picture some can't.

Shut it and finish that report

Doggy Styles
24th December 2013, 10:00
John Terry

VectraMan
24th December 2013, 10:08
John Terry

Who's John Terry?:confused:

BlasterBates
24th December 2013, 10:10
Knowledge is power...., you know more than anyone else people start doing what you tell them to do.

At work I might be a "junor developer" with no influence but in the band I'm an oppressive dictator...the set list is under my tight control as is the tempo of the all the songs, I bark out orders about the drum beat and bass lines. However when we're setting up the sound system in the presence of the bass player who happens to be a professional sound engineer I turn into a blubbering nancy boy.

MarillionFan
24th December 2013, 10:20
Big gob and big stick is what you need. No doing the pots required.

russell
24th December 2013, 10:35
http://www.comedy.co.uk/images/library/people/300/t/the_office_david_brent.jpg

original PM
24th December 2013, 10:39
Big gob and big stick is what you need. No doing the pots required.

:Sigh: and when you have no stick you are no leader.

you need niether of those to be a true leader those triats are the traits of modern day bullies

BlasterBates
24th December 2013, 10:45
waah!!! the Drummer is taking over the marketing sending christmas mails to all the pub owners....

No get down......the band policy doesn't include sending christmas mails.

fullyautomatix
24th December 2013, 11:25
Leader, usually fearless, takes the initiative, leads the way, makes the first move, provides guidance, knows everything, very confident, brave, able, commanding, forceful, takes the knock on the chin on behalf of the team, protects his men, inspires and motivates, finds a way out of any shithole, manages to achieve the goal by any means. etc etc etc. Some are born leaders and others get there by sheer hard work.

Zero Liability
24th December 2013, 11:49
Not necessarily fearless, I don't think anyone is fearless. Brave, yes.

Also, regarding the "big gob", if you don't know what you're talking about and lack interpersonal skills, it'll just communicate that all the more loudly. It has little to do with leadership, and it has never struck me as an antidote to being drowned out by others. If others aren't listening to you, it is because your ideas are not that good, or you are not communicating them very well, so I would say communication is essential to leadership, including speaking clearly and with confidence. A big gob? It is essential to very little, and you can buy a megaphone if you think it matters that much. People may listen to you but they won't necessarily think much of what you have to say.

MarillionFan
24th December 2013, 12:20
Not necessarily fearless, I don't think anyone is fearless. Brave, yes.

Also, regarding the "big gob", if you don't know what you're talking about and lack interpersonal skills, it'll just communicate that all the more loudly. It has little to do with leadership, and it has never struck me as an antidote to being drowned out by others. If others aren't listening to you, it is because your ideas are not that good, or you are not communicating them very well, so I would say communication is essential to leadership, including speaking clearly and with confidence. A big gob? It is essential to very little, and you can buy a megaphone if you think it matters that much. People may listen to you but they won't necessarily think much of what you have to say.

I left out the last one JFDI.

Doggy Styles
24th December 2013, 12:51
Bobby Moore

darmstadt
24th December 2013, 12:55
Having a funny handshake with one trouser leg rolled up...

doodab
24th December 2013, 13:17
Leader, usually fearless, takes the initiative, leads the way, makes the first move, provides guidance, knows everything, very confident, brave, able, commanding, forceful, takes the knock on the chin on behalf of the team, protects his men, inspires and motivates, finds a way out of any tuliphole, manages to achieve the goal by any means. etc etc etc. Some are born leaders and others get there by sheer hard work.

WHS. A leader is someone people choose to follow when the chips are down.

Ruprect
24th December 2013, 14:32
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQrPVmcgJJk

vetran
24th December 2013, 14:43
the ability to look good with those above and vague enough to those below that they sort out your mess and you get to take credit for it.

Great leaders inspire and expect everyone to keep up with them, those that don't keep up the leader spends time with so they can.

SueEllen
24th December 2013, 14:49
Leader, usually fearless, takes the initiative, leads the way, makes the first move, provides guidance, knows everything, very confident, brave, able, commanding, forceful, takes the knock on the chin on behalf of the team, protects his men, inspires and motivates, finds a way out of any tuliphole, manages to achieve the goal by any means. etc etc etc. Some are born leaders and others get there by sheer hard work.

You don't have to know everything to be a good leader - however you do need to have good people around you who do have that knowledge. Knowing when to delegate and who to delegate to is a sign of a good leader.

AtW
24th December 2013, 14:50
If you have to ask then you are not the one.

HTH

BlasterBates
24th December 2013, 15:12
I always bark commands loudly when we're doing a gig....

just showing my leadership skills.....

:smokin

NotAllThere
24th December 2013, 15:38
Funny, most books on leadership teach you how to become a leader overnight.That's because the goal is to sell books, not create leaders.


Big gob and big stick is what you need. No doing the pots required.You're confusing driving with leading.

KentPhilip
24th December 2013, 15:51
Let me hijack the thread by asking the question: Give some examples of living UK-based people who would be consider to exude great leadership.

Let me start with: Richard Branson

hyperD
24th December 2013, 16:07
Let me hijack the thread by asking the question: Give some examples of living UK-based people who would be consider to exude great leadership.

Let me start with: Richard Branson

Beards! It's beards! You need a beard to be a leader!

xoggoth
24th December 2013, 16:13
Or a strange moustache!

SueEllen
24th December 2013, 19:40
Beards! It's beards! You need a beard to be a leader!

Damn I knew I was going wrong somewhere.....

MarillionFan
24th December 2013, 19:55
Or a strange moustache!

That's a dictator. Is that the same?

greenlake
24th December 2013, 20:37
Funny, most books on leadership teach you how to become a leader overnight.

http://curiousadministrator.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/184103-strip_-sunday.gif

scooterscot
24th December 2013, 21:29
In layman terms and how can the skill be acquired?

You've got it backwards. A leader is defined by his or her followers.

You don't acquire the skill, people either follow you or they don't.

MadDawg
24th December 2013, 21:36
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8RCFqwv8wg

CheeseSlice
24th December 2013, 22:27
Shut it and finish that 'TPS' report

FTFY

EternalOptimist
25th December 2013, 00:27
no.
a leader does not have to have followers.

a judas lamb has followers.

a leader is someone who takes the lead. You stand up and say 'ooh, this needs doing' and you start doing it

scooterscot
25th December 2013, 11:02
no.
a leader does not have to have followers.


Yes they do. If not who are they leading? Is the moon there when no one is looking.

Go and put the kettle on.

Freamon
26th December 2013, 10:27
Leadership is what they don't teach on the IT Manager training that most permies seem to think is the only way to climb the greasy pole.

Most places I've been have hundreds of IT Managers (mostly the ones who couldn't hack it as developers), and they are great at minute-taking, meeting scheduling, action logging and chasing people down. But they have no idea what needs to be done.

MarillionFan
26th December 2013, 10:44
Yes they do. If not who are they leading? Is the moon there when no one is looking.

Go and put the kettle on.

And then finish those pots, they won't do themselves

mickey
2nd January 2014, 07:56
Leadership is what they don't teach on the IT Manager training that most permies seem to think is the only way to climb the greasy pole.


As if there are alternatives for the permies? :)

Gibbon
2nd January 2014, 12:59
Leadership is identifying what configuration of three pine poles and some rope will overcome the challenge, that's what I was taught at NCO school anyway.

Also if in doubt, shout, preferably with a few expletives and question the receipents parentage.

'Empires aren't maintained by timidity' ( Tacitus)

Doggy Styles
2nd January 2014, 13:08
Leadership is identifying what configuration of three pine poles and some rope will overcome the challenge, that's what I was taught at NCO school anyway.

Also if in doubt, shout, preferably with a few expletives and question the receipents parentage.

'Empires aren't maintained by timidity' ( Tacitus)Parts of Marconi were like that as well.

hyperD
2nd January 2014, 13:25
And remember: a holier-than-thou attitude really turns a team into a strong, fighting unit.

Normally amongst themselves and the pious "leader".