Convincing an MD to take me on as contract rather than perm

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Just wondering if anybody has been faced with such a problem?

I have had a few conversations with an MD who is looking to increase his headcount but worried about the following things:

- HMRC and 24 month rule, also the idea of not being committed in the long-term
- Me feeling excluded because everybody else was perm
- Me acting different because of my different setup

I have tried explaining that being set-up as a business doesn't necessarily mean any of the above. The financial cost to the firm is pretty much the same and there are many benefits on their side as well (no redundancy pay, holiday/sick pay etc.)

Anybody else been faced with this scenario and how did you deal with it?

[MyUserName]

Yep, had something very similar.

Was taken on by a company that did linux stuff. I explained I did not know linux and they said it did not matter. A new CTO was brought on board just after I joined.
On the last day of my probation he told he was worried that I would struggle as I did not know linux. He agreed that my work was fine but he was worried it would cause a problem in the future. I could either sign a form agreeing that my probation was being extended by a month (the form also contained references to meetings which had not happened etc and issues about my performance which agreed was not actually an issue) or he could fire me on the spot. I had a mortage, a child and a pregnant wife so I swallowed my pride and signed the form.

A week later I approached him and suggested a 1 month rolling contract. That way if there was even any issues about my performance we could part ways immediately but, being as I was actually getting everything done that needed to get done they might as well keep me until then.

He refused and threatened to fire me if I ever mention it again. He then explained that there was no way I would pass the probation and the months extension was just him being nice. I resigned and he refused to sign the form and insisted on us using one he wrote which explicitly said my employment terminated that day.

I dealt with it by leaving and deciding no one was going to bully me like that again. I now run my own business and work on my terms.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Yep, had something very similar.

Was taken on by a company that did linux stuff. I explained I did not know linux and they said it did not matter. A new CTO was brought on board just after I joined.
On the last day of my probation he told he was worried that I would struggle as I did not know linux. He agreed that my work was fine but he was worried it would cause a problem in the future. I could either sign a form agreeing that my probation was being extended by a month (the form also contained references to meetings which had not happened etc and issues about my performance which agreed was not actually an issue) or he could fire me on the spot. I had a mortage, a child and a pregnant wife so I swallowed my pride and signed the form.

A week later I approached him and suggested a 1 month rolling contract. That way if there was even any issues about my performance we could part ways immediately but, being as I was actually getting everything done that needed to get done they might as well keep me until then.

He refused and threatened to fire me if I ever mention it again. He then explained that there was no way I would pass the probation and the months extension was just him being nice. I resigned and he refused to sign the form and insisted on us using one he wrote which explicitly said my employment terminated that day.

I dealt with it by leaving and deciding no one was going to bully me like that again. I now run my own business and work on my terms.

ok.....

that's not quite what I am talking about. Looking to explore an opportunity to go direct with a company. They are just concerned about how a contractor would fit into their organisation.....

[eek]

ok.....

that's not quite what I am talking about. Looking to explore an opportunity to go direct with a company. They are just concerned about how a contractor would fit into their organisation.....

Temporarily as needs arose.....

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Temporarily as needs arose.....

Indeed.....

But is there anything to stop the relationship being a positive one that can go on for quite a while?

[malvolio]

I've had this discussion dozen times. I hope you understand cost accountancy 'cos the only argument that will work is you demonstrating they save money by having you as a contractor. Or, employment law, because if Human Remains et their fingers in the loop, you're fighting a load of FUD about gaining permie rights after three month or when the MD scratches his nose or some other nonsense.

Your contract costs are 100% of time spent for days worked. Your employee costs include (but are not limited to) salary, ErNICs, management overhead, pension, SSP, healthcare, insurances, holidays and bank holidays, training, maternity provision and notice period provision. Plus the average employee is only ever 80% productive.

Have fun...

[tarbera]

pointers

Just wondering if anybody has been faced with such a problem?

I have had a few conversations with an MD who is looking to increase his headcount but worried about the following things:

- HMRC and 24 month rule, also the idea of not being committed in the long-term
- Me feeling excluded because everybody else was perm
- Me acting different because of my different setup

I have tried explaining that being set-up as a business doesn't necessarily mean any of the above. The financial cost to the firm is pretty much the same and there are many benefits on their side as well (no redundancy pay, holiday/sick pay etc.)

Anybody else been faced with this scenario and how did you deal with it?

What 24 month rule are you referring..??? I think you are getting confused.

anyhooo advice from the PCG here you can tell the MD to have a look

https://www.pcg.org.uk/resources-cli...-your-business

[d000hg]

Ultimately other than explain the cost benefits all you can do is give an ultimatum if you're that bothered.

[DirtyDog]

What 24 month rule are you referring..??? I think you are getting confused.

I don't think the OP is confused at all (based on posting history).

Either the manager thinks that after 2 years they become a permie anyway, or that after 2 years they won't be able to claim expenses so might leave (hence them not being long-term players).

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

What 24 month rule are you referring..??? I think you are getting confused.

anyhooo advice from the PCG here you can tell the MD to have a look

https://www.pcg.org.uk/resources-cli...-your-business

I know very well the 24 month rule my friend - That was confusion on the other side with how contractors are seen as short-termists...