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The Central Scrutinizer
12th February 2014, 13:16
Steve Rotherham - Saw him on the tv this morning. He is vehemently opposed to standing at football grounds. The discussion was about the standing facilities (rail seats) being put in at Bristol City where the stands can be adjusted to cater for all seating or all standing. I can’t see where his objection is coming from. Standing at football games in Europe is standard in a lot of grounds. BBC Sport - Bristol City plan to install rail seats at Ashton Gate (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26141427)

It will NEVER happen in the PL though

Personally, I think with all the recent findings on the police in Hillsborough, it's the perfect time to discuss this. The fans have been exonerated and there are documented lessons to be learnt regarding policing, tickets and stadium design. Any debate should be sensitive and always aware of fans' safety, but it's such a different world since 1989. I just worry that emotional issues will dominate any sensible, sensitive debate and that certain opponents to the proposal can only ever bring to mind memories of crumbling terraces, bad policing, bad organisation, fences, instead of seeing what is really on offer.

And............... unfortunately that's exactly what it will become, and no-one will have the balls to say "we respect your opinion, but the world has moved on since 1989 and we need to look at it objectively". I can already see dickheads like that Adrian Durham on Talkshite, banging on about how it's "disrespecting the memories of those who died".

The outcome of Hillsborough was undoubtedly contributed to by a number of factors - however the HFSG and people like Steve Rotherham want to have their cake and eat it, and direct all of their scorn upon whichever one of the elements suits the particular argument they're making that day.
Most of the crowd behind the goals at the Liverpool/Arsenal game were standing throughout the whole game and this goes on at the majority of PL grounds. He didn’t mention that though.
How many stood on the kop in the FIVE years between Hillsborough and them knocking it down?

GazCol
12th February 2014, 13:27
Steve Rotherham - Saw him on the tv this morning. He is vehemently opposed to standing at football grounds. The discussion was about the standing facilities (rail seats) being put in at Bristol City where the stands can be adjusted to cater for all seating or all standing. I can’t see where his objection is coming from. Standing at football games in Europe is standard in a lot of grounds. BBC Sport - Bristol City plan to install rail seats at Ashton Gate (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26141427)

It will NEVER happen in the PL though

Personally, I think with all the recent findings on the police in Hillsborough, it's the perfect time to discuss this. The fans have been exonerated and there are documented lessons to be learnt regarding policing, tickets and stadium design. Any debate should be sensitive and always aware of fans' safety, but it's such a different world since 1989. I just worry that emotional issues will dominate any sensible, sensitive debate and that certain opponents to the proposal can only ever bring to mind memories of crumbling terraces, bad policing, bad organisation, fences, instead of seeing what is really on offer.

And............... unfortunately that's exactly what it will become, and no-one will have the balls to say "we respect your opinion, but the world has moved on since 1989 and we need to look at it objectively". I can already see dickheads like that Adrian Durham on Talktulipe, banging on about how it's "disrespecting the memories of those who died".

The outcome of Hillsborough was undoubtedly contributed to by a number of factors - however the HFSG and people like Steve Rotherham want to have their cake and eat it, and direct all of their scorn upon whichever one of the elements suits the particular argument they're making that day.
Most of the crowd behind the goals at the Liverpool/Arsenal game were standing throughout the whole game and this goes on at the majority of PL grounds. He didn’t mention that though.
How many stood on the kop in the FIVE years between Hillsborough and them knocking it down?

I think the whole thing about safe standing, that has been lost on especially the politicians, is that standing happens at every ground, at every game, around the country. As it is, with seats shin high in front of the supporters that stand (why they stand is another argument) is especially unsafe, especially in grounds like Wembley where there is a steep gradient, especially in the upper tier. Rail seats give those that stand some form of protection as to not topple into the rows in front of them.

What is almost always lost on opponents of safe standing is that the proposals aren’t for a return to terracing but the rail seats give you an allocated area, much in the same way seated grounds give you a row and seat number. That’s your area and it doesn’t mean that you’ll suddenly end up with 2 or 3 times the capacity of that area being breached.

To me, there’s no good reason why safe standing hasn’t already been introduced. It provides cheaper ticket prices to the individual, provides more revenue to clubs (18 standing places for every 10 seats) and is actually easier to police than a seated area. Unfortunately many laws, rules and regulations for football arenas are for a different type of supporter from a different era.

AtW
12th February 2014, 13:54
Surely it's only safe in the Directors box? :eyes

BoredBloke
12th February 2014, 14:36
The problem with what happened at Hilsbourgh is not down to standing. It was down to bad policing and too many people trying to get into a confined area - an area only confined because of the fences due to the crowd problems that football had. I think standing should be allowed at every ground.

vetran
12th February 2014, 14:47
if the number standing were strictly controlled and it was possible to make sure no one tried to force their way in as they did at Hillsborough (unfortunate fact that contributed even though the Police were negligent) then stands could be safe-ish.

However the provision of seats makes numbers easy to control and limit the effects of crowd surges.

Agree rails between seats or waist high seats (like theatres & cinemas) would make more sense than knee high seats in front.

Doggy Styles
12th February 2014, 16:53
if the number standing were strictly controlled and it was possible to make sure no one tried to force their way in as they did at Hillsborough (unfortunate fact that contributed even though the Police were negligent) then stands could be safe-ish.

However the provision of seats makes numbers easy to control and limit the effects of crowd surges.

Agree rails between seats or waist high seats (like theatres & cinemas) would make more sense than knee high seats in front.I think you are right. A lot of things contributed to Hillsborough, not just the police.

If you control numbers coming in, and divide standing into smaller barriered blocks to mitigate surges, it's a lot safer.

How you control movement within the ground without specific seats to go to I'm not sure.

BrilloPad
12th February 2014, 17:15
I would hate to stand at a football match. At least in a seat I stand some chance of a kip.