NSS - migrants displace workers.

[vetran]

Migrants DO cost UK jobs says 'buried' report: BBC attacked after claiming document was suppressed by No 10 | Mail Online

Migrants DO cost UK jobs says 'buried' report: BBC attacked after claiming document was suppressed by No 10
Fierce row has broken out over a Government report
Newsnight said it was being 'suppressed' by the Coalition
Programme said it would undermine Tory immigration policy
But study will say some Britons have suffered 'displacement'

[Mich the Tester]

[vetran]

Indeed, however the British taxpayer has to pay for the services for the cheap labour and the chav on the Dole.

[doodab]

Indeed, however the British taxpayer has to pay for the services for the cheap labour and the chav on the Dole.

Probably still cheaper than paying for a chav to come round your house and **** up the plumbing, then paying for another one, and another one, and another one until finally you give up and move house.

[Mich the Tester]

Indeed, however the British taxpayer has to pay for the services for the cheap labour and the chav on the Dole.

Indeed, but do you think protectionism would be better in the long run?

[vetran]

Indeed, but do you think protectionism would be better in the long run?

I believe gradual change in population make up is far safer than a sudden change. I also believe improving the population's productivity is more effective long term than just hiring cheap workers and paying for more wastage.

[Mich the Tester]

I believe gradual change in population make up is far safer than a sudden change. I also believe improving the population's productivity is more effective long term than just hiring cheap workers and paying for more wastage.

I agree, largely, and I think the free movement for new EU countries has been done too quickly for many people to adapt. But that doesn't mean turning back; it means the working population have to be better prepared to compete and have to be aware that whether we have immigration or not, many are competing with the whole world for their jobs. I think what you're pointing to is not so much a failure of immigration policy as education policy. In Britain, and in some other European countries, the higher levels of education are largely excellent, there is outstanding technical training available, but at the low end, people are being hard done by, even if it's partly by their own making. I don't like the idea of protectionism because it can lead to complacency and an even less competitive workforce.

I think there's also a strange kind of class or status issue at hand; many people seem to attach status to office jobs and seem to think there's something wrong with taking a low end job as a labourer or shelf filler when actually these are quite honourable ways to earn a living and get a start in the labour market. In fact I meet many good entrepreneurs and people in senior management positions who started out just doing any job they can find, just like I did when I climbed down sewers to put plastic linings around critical parts of them.

[vetran]

I agree, largely, and I think the free movement for new EU countries has been done too quickly for many people to adapt. But that doesn't mean turning back; it means the working population have to be better prepared to compete and have to be aware that whether we have immigration or not, many are competing with the whole world for their jobs. I think what you're pointing to is not so much a failure of immigration policy as education policy. In Britain, and in some other European countries, the higher levels of education are largely excellent, there is outstanding technical training available, but at the low end, people are being hard done by, even if it's partly by their own making. I don't like the idea of protectionism because it can lead to complacency and an even less competitive workforce.

I think there's also a strange kind of class or status issue at hand; many people seem to attach status to office jobs and seem to think there's something wrong with taking a low end job as a labourer or shelf filler when actually these are quite honourable ways to earn a living and get a start in the labour market. In fact I meet many good entrepreneurs and people in senior management positions who started out just doing any job they can find, just like I did when I climbed down sewers to put plastic linings around critical parts of them.

Having cleaned toilets & waited tables I have no illusions about the nobility of the lower end of work. Much of it stinks with unpleasant managers and ridiculous expectations of how staff should dedicate themselves to a job with what now attracts a zero hour contract. I was Agency staff so I missed the majority of stupidity and earned a few pounds more an hour than staff.

However people are willing to do the work but as my Friend who drives lorries said "why should I work for £7 an hour when I will be on less than I will be on benefits and my family will suffer". If wages don't rise or benefits fall you will not get people off benefits.

As to being able to compete, you are looking at the workforce from the top, you & I are in the upper earners and in demand, we are used to adapting. Many people aren't and in some cases wouldn't be capable of without a lot of support considering the hash we are making of administering benefits I doubt we could give that support.

[doodab]

I think there's also a strange kind of class or status issue at hand; many people seem to attach status to office jobs and seem to think there's something wrong with taking a low end job as a labourer or shelf filler when actually these are quite honourable ways to earn a living and get a start in the labour market. In fact I meet many good entrepreneurs and people in senior management positions who started out just doing any job they can find, just like I did when I climbed down sewers to put plastic linings around critical parts of them.

Many years ago I worked in a Taiwanese owned factory in the midlands. The big boss guys came over and did a tour. At one point one of them asked one of the local workers (mostly temps through agencies on very low wages, as there was no minimum wage back then) to sweep up some muck on the floor. The guy refused, at which point the boss guy took a broom, swept the crap up, and sent the guy home.

I liked that job, it didn't pay particularly well but it was interesting. By the time I left I had been in charge of the end of production line testing stations, was responsible for all "gold builds" that went out to magazines, and they trained me how to fix motherboards at component level (this was pre BGA when the chips on a motherboard, although surface mount, still had legs on)

[Mich the Tester]

However people are willing to do the work but as my Friend who drives lorries said "why should I work for £7 an hour when I will be on less than I will be on benefits and my family will suffer". If wages don't rise or benefits fall you will not get people off benefits.

Does the UK not have cabotage legislation on truckers? It's permitted and even enabled by the EU to stop cheapo international drivers taking domestic business from locals.

As to being able to compete, you are looking at the workforce from the top, you & I are in the upper earners and in demand, we are used to adapting. Many people aren't and in some cases wouldn't be capable of without a lot of support considering the hash we are making of administering benefits I doubt we could give that support.

True, but is the answer to protect the weak, or to strengthen them? In reality it will need to be some kind of compromise, but people need to be better prepared to adapt and that starts with big changes to the way people at the lower end of the jobs market are edjumakated.