Are German companies really more efficient that those in the UK?

[woohoo]

Now my experience of German companies is pretty limited to 3 companies but my experience has been that far from being efficient they are bureaucratic, overly formal and don't go out of the way to actually help.

I'm working with a German software company on a software integration. Again it's the same, I have to fill out forms to get things setup, forms are badly done. Rather than just ask for say an IP address they send a form with a raft of information then have to guess what they want.

If I ask for help on something I get it's not my job. They seem to have different departments for everything and don't seem to talk to each other.

The documentation in all the German companies I've worked with has been poor. No chance of a step by step guide, just dense documentation that may or may not be relevant.

I'm genuinely interested if other people have had better or similar experiences. I don't understand how they are taking over the world based on my limited experience of 3 companies

[Dallas]

No

they just like to think they are

[doodab]

That sounds a lot like the big ones I've dealt with through work. The small companies are different though, and those are the ones that make their economy a powerhouse. As an end user I've found dealing with them pretty good.

[Mich the Tester]

Now my experience of German companies is pretty limited to 3 companies but my experience has been that far from being efficient they are bureaucratic, overly formal and don't go out of the way to actually help.

I'm working with a German software company on an software integration. Again it's the same, I have to fill out forms to get things setup, forms are badly done. Rather than just ask for say an IP address they send a form with a raft of information then have to guess what they want.

If I ask for help on something I get it's not my job. They seem to have different departments for everything and don't seem to talk to each other.

The documentation in all the German companies I've worked with has been poor. No chance of a step by step guide, just dense documentation that may or may not be relevant.

I'm genuinely interested if other people have had better or similar experiences. I don't understand how they are taking over the world based on my limited experience of 3 companies

I get the impression that some German IT departments try to use engineering approaches that work well when building machines, cars, ships and so on but are not so effective when building software, where definitions of requirements are often more vague because people's understanding of problems is more varied and opaque. But it's not German software that's 'taking over the world', except perhaps SAP, it's German industrial products where the software might be made somewhere else; in fact, quite a lot of the software in German cars is made in Britain, and a lot of their logistic software and processes are developed in NL. German companies are pretty good at finding out who can supply the stuff they aren't so good at making for themselves.

[Eirikur]

Have worked in Germany as well
Bureaucratic yes
overly formerly yes (one guy in my department with two doctor titles had to be addressed as Herr Doppeltdoktor, mister double doctor)
more efficient yes
They work less hours have loads more annual leave, but they do their work extremely efficient and deliver high quality. That's why most German products are successful and wanted all over the world and British well they fail most of the time

[MicrosoftBob]

But it's not German software that's 'taking over the world', except perhaps SAP.

SAP, oh yes that wonderfull software where you have to reengineer your organisation to fit the software, if you want to retain your sanity

[Mich the Tester]

That's why most German products are successful and wanted all over the world and British well they fail most of the time

Ummm, first bit true, second bit might have been true 30 years ago, but today, not true.

[Pondlife]

Efficiency is not the right measure to describe the difference IMO.

The Germans like to do things their way and naturally think this is the correct way. That aside, I think their approach to delivery is better than ours. They do not foster the same blame culture that exists in British organisations. They accept that mistakes will be made and that problems will occur when dealing with complex situations. All they want to know is that it is fixed and that lessons are learned. They only ask how/why but never who, if things go wrong.

They are also better at acceptance. If you train, test and deliver and it's adequately documented they will accept the system far more readily than the UK guy will take ownership.
In the UK all documentation seems to stem from a CYA perspective rather than to provide any future value or support - hence reluctance to accept handover & ownership.

They also celebrate success better than us. All IMHO

[woohoo]

I get the impression that some German IT departments try to use engineering approaches that work well when building machines, cars, ships and so on but are not so effective when building software, where definitions of requirements are often more vague because people's understanding of problems is more varied and opaque. But it's not German software that's 'taking over the world', except perhaps SAP, it's German industrial products where the software might be made somewhere else; in fact, quite a lot of the software in German cars is made in Britain, and a lot of their logistic software and processes are developed in NL. German companies are pretty good at finding out who can supply the stuff they aren't so good at making for themselves.

yeah good point about engineering practices being applied to IT. But still their documentation is tulipe and they don't seem to talk to other departments.

[Mich the Tester]

SAP, oh yes that wonderfull software where you have to reengineer your organisation to fit the software, if you want to retain your sanity

No, if you want to retain your sanity you don't buy SAP. If you want to invoice as a contractor, you recommend SAP to all your friends.