I'm surprised we haven't had this yet

**Zippy** · 2 May 2014, 08:26

The only kind of flexible working this shower are interested in is the kind that benefits their mates i.e. zero hours, minimum wage contracts.

**VectraMan** · 2 May 2014, 08:35

The question is how much do they really earn doing legal aid work? When they had their strike, there were some on the TV claiming it was less than minimum wage, and the government were saying many earned more than £100K. It's one of those stories where as a member of the public it's impossible to know where you stand as you don't have any way of knowing what the facts actually are.

**eek** · 2 May 2014, 08:59

Originally posted by VectraMan View Post

The question is how much do they really earn doing legal aid work? When they had their strike, there were some on the TV claiming it was less than minimum wage, and the government were saying many earned more than £100K. It's one of those stories where as a member of the public it's impossible to know where you stand as you don't have any way of knowing what the facts actually are.

Well they may earn £100k but there is a large amount of deductions after that.

The government quoted the vat inclusive rate so £100k became £84k. They then give 20% to chambers so £84k becomes £67k and then have expenses on top.....

As a fairly lowly paid contractor (I could get more but go for entertainment and long term survival rather than cash) I earn more than that...

**doodab** · 2 May 2014, 09:01

Originally posted by VectraMan View Post

The question is how much do they really earn doing legal aid work? When they had their strike, there were some on the TV claiming it was less than minimum wage, and the government were saying many earned more than £100K. It's one of those stories where as a member of the public it's impossible to know where you stand as you don't have any way of knowing what the facts actually are.

I think they might bill £100k but the reality is that quite a bit of that is disbursments, expenses and VAT. I do know a qualified barrister and he does all right although he actually works as a political lobbyist, which might say something about what he could earn as a barrister.

**vetran** · 2 May 2014, 09:01

The Criminal Bar Association (CBA) disputes the claim, saying barristers actually earn an average of £37,000 .

On Tuesday, Sir Andrew - who leads the body which monitors the integrity of official statistics - wrote to Legal Aid minister Shailesh Vara and courts saying the report did not specify how the government figure was reached.

He said the sum was "potentially misleading" as it was not made clear barristers would have to pay costs and tax out of this.

Using a different way of calculating the figures would have produced a lower average, he added.

"Information about items included or excluded from the estimates of fee income - for example, VAT and disbursements - is also presented in the notes but the report makes no attempt to quantify the impact of the treatment of these items.

what was the VAT threshold again?

**NickFitz** · 2 May 2014, 09:01

Although there are a tiny number of barristers earning huge sums, most earn very little given the amount of work they have to put in to achieving that position: I believe most are under the £50,000 mark.

And bear in mind that the government quotes gross figures. Even if a barrister "earns", say, £250,000 a year, that's not their take-home, nor even their gross salary. They'll be a member of a chambers, and have to contribute to the costs of running that business: premises, staff, other overheads. A barrister is essentially a partner in a business, and the fees they command are the income of that business, not their personal income.

**eek** · 2 May 2014, 09:04

Originally posted by vetran View Post

what was the VAT threshold again?

It's billed by the chamber so is charged regardless of what the barrister bills.

**doodab** · 2 May 2014, 09:04

Originally posted by eek View Post

As a fairly lowly paid contractor (I could get more but go for entertainment and long term survival rather than cash) I earn more than that...

Exactly. £100k ex VAT billed by an IT contractor with minimal overheads is a lot more than £100k inc vat with a sizeable cost of doing business.

**vetran** · 2 May 2014, 09:06

Originally posted by NickFitz View Post

Although there are a tiny number of barristers earning huge sums, most earn very little given the amount of work they have to put in to achieving that position: I believe most are under the £50,000 mark.

And bear in mind that the government quotes gross figures. Even if a barrister "earns", say, £250,000 a year, that's not their take-home, nor even their gross salary: they'll be a member of a chambers, and have to contribute to the costs of running that business: premises, staff, other overheads. A barrister is essentially a partner in a business, and the fees they command are the income of that business, not their personal income.

And the tax deduction of expenses etc. has no effect?

My limited experience has been the fees they charge are quite exceptional even in basically straightforward cases. £500 for a morning in court.

I'm surprised we haven't had this yet