Ed Miliband accused of 'socialism'

**suityou01** · 4 May 2014, 18:23

Originally posted by BrilloPad View Post

Ed Miliband accused of 'socialism' as he suggests re-nationalising railways - Telegraph

How disgraceful for a Labour person to be a socialist.

Tony Blair paid a fortune to restyle labour into new labour. Is Millipede committing political suicide?

**doodab** · 4 May 2014, 18:27

Originally posted by suityou01 View Post

Tony Blair paid a fortune to restyle labour into new labour. Is Millipede committing political suicide?

It depends. Has New Labour alienated traditional Labour voters while failing to address the concerns of those it was designed to woo, leading them to look elsewhere? Or is it what people are crying out for?

I suspect it's the former in which case putting a bit of difference between New Labour and New New Labour might not be such a bad idea.

**suityou01** · 4 May 2014, 18:31

Originally posted by doodab View Post

It depends. Has New Labour alienated traditional Labour voters while failing to address the concerns of those it was designed to woo, leading them to look elsewhere? Or is it what people are crying out for?

I suspect it's the former in which case putting a bit of difference between New Labour and New New Labour might not be such a bad idea.

Perhaps this has something to do with the Scottish referendum?

**Zero Liability** · 4 May 2014, 19:23

He's about as close to it as any major British political figure, so it's a fair label.

**xoggoth** · 4 May 2014, 20:08

Righty meself but not against all socialist policies. Not entirely sure about British rail but I had a lot to do with the CEGB and never thought that breaking up a pretty effective state organisation and delivering it to a bunch of foreign companies made any sense. Righties like Thatcher put can dogma above subjective assessment too.

But bringing back rent controls is hugely stupid. Market forces, where they really are the main factor, are by far the best determinant of prices. The idea that a bunch of ignorant jobsworth civil servants should setting be prices on a purely politically driven, subjective basis is pure lunacy. The way to control market prices is to tackle the driving mechanisms and, in the case of rents and property prices, the long term driver is the expansion of population, largely due to immigration. UKIP already have the house price policies that actually matter.

**Doggy Styles** · 4 May 2014, 20:11

It can't be easy for Milliband. The tories have trounced him and Balls on the economy, and his union backers are ordering him about.

**tomtomagain** · 4 May 2014, 21:33

The more Ed says he is going to control the more and more he will have to control.

This is why centrally managed enterprises and states fail in the end.

**xoggoth** · 4 May 2014, 21:41

If the Looniband gets in we will end up like Venezuela. Better stock up on toilet paper while you can still get it.

**doodab** · 4 May 2014, 21:59

Originally posted by xoggoth View Post

The way to control market prices is to tackle the driving mechanisms and, in the case of rents and property prices, the long term driver is the expansion of population, largely due to immigration. UKIP already have the house price policies that actually matter.

While population is certainly a factor that pushes up both rents and house prices EU immigration is a bit of a red herring here IMO. I think cheap money has had more to do with it. I'd also question why Labour have come up with this policy at all as there doesn't seem to be a problem with big rent increases at all. Although rents are high relative to incomes they have been for some time.

Both house prices and rents were booming before the EU expansion in 2004 that's associated with a rapid increase in net migration. A look at house prices shows that they were going up faster before 2004 than they have after. For England and Wales they rose close to 12% P.A. from 1997-2004 and around 2.5% a year since. In London the figures are approx 14% before and 5.5% after. Even if we limit our analysis of the post-EU rises to pre 2008 crisis they were going up faster before the expansion of the EU.

Unfortunately the ONS rental data only goes back to 2005 but it appears that rents have risen pretty slowly (around 5% in total over that period) and actually fell during some of it, though they have been going up a bit more quickly recently particularly in London. My feeling is that this recent rise in London has at least as much to do with the indigenous population being unable to get on the housing ladder as it has with migration. From my perspective as a renter in London for pretty much the entire period, I'd observe that rents increased faster during the peak of the housing price boom (2000-2005) and have been fairly static since 2005 when my first child was born. In fact we were in the same place 2006-2013 and we were paying less for it when we moved out than we did when we moved in, although that's purely anecdotal.

If EU migration is driving the cost of housing then I'd have expected rises to have accelerated, not slowed, when migration increased. The fact is that for house prices at least they did the opposite and for rents it's a bit of a non-story.

For prices I'm looking at HPI background - Land Registry for England and Wales for house prices, http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/publicatio...cm%3A77-304792 for rents and for migration numbers www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn06077.pdf.

Ed Miliband accused of 'socialism'