Can I sue?

[nucastle]

So i work through an umbrella company. Probably an important point.

I finish a contract for a client on 28th March, after being there nearly 2 years. Absolutely no problems up to this point.

Timesheet submitted 28th March. A week later I get an email saying my invoice has been approved for processing.

Fast forward to today, 6 weeks later. My umbrella gets a letter from the client saying the work was not done to standard, and as per their terms and conditions they are not paying. In addition to this they CLAIM the end client (who the project was ultimately for) has refused to pay for my time and this allows them to claim this back from me.

At the bottom of the letter it states that they may go back in time to get other monies back, if we shut up and say that this is the end of the matter.

As soon as I get this letter, with my heart pounding, I ring up the end-end client and ask them if they did INDEED refuse payment or something to that effect. I'm told that NO, all invoices had been paid and nothing had been said to any effect to anyone. All invoices have been coming in from my client (the company i worked for, through my umbrella) and they have paid them.

So, this project was a little late due to mismanagement on the PM side (which of course is up for discussion) and my contract ended before the website ultimately went live. Another contractor/resource finished off what needed to be done obviously. I've checked and it's up and running and the end-end client commented how good its looking. All by the by but wanted to check none the less.

So, the client i worked for is clearly lying about not getting paid, never told me or raised anything about the standard of work being low, and indeed communicated back that invoices were cleared for payment, and signed off timesheets a week before they did that.

Can I call down the legal thunder on them? Obviously my relationship is with my umbrella which muddies the water, but I'm hoping/assuming that they are clearly playing with fire trying to get a project back on budget by spinning a yarn about not getting paid themselves and trying to say the work was not up to scratch.

FWIW the work i've done is 90% evident on the live website, and working very nicely. 8 years into contracting and this is the first time this has happened.

[TheFaQQer]

At the bottom of the letter it states that they may go back in time to get other monies back, if we shut up and say that this is the end of the matter.

If they have already paid, then they would need to go to court to recover anything, so that seems unlikely to me.

Can I call down the legal thunder on them?

You have no contractual relationship with them, so you can't sue them. You need to get your employer to get involved and chase for the payment - which is where another issue with umbrellas comes up. Without their help and support, you aren't going to get anything from the client - they don't owe you anything, they owe the umbrella (who then have an employment contract with you to pay some of that money to you).

Whether you can sue the umbrella company if they don't get the money is another question - what have your employers told you about the situation? What steps are they taking to pursue the bad debt, or are they just going to write it off?

[tractor]

So i work through an umbrella company. Probably an important point.

I finish a contract for a client on 28th March, after being there nearly 2 years. Absolutely no problems up to this point.

Timesheet submitted 28th March. A week later I get an email saying my invoice has been approved for processing.

Fast forward to today, 6 weeks later. My umbrella gets a letter from the client saying the work was not done to standard, and as per their terms and conditions they are not paying. In addition to this they CLAIM the end client (who the project was ultimately for) has refused to pay for my time and this allows them to claim this back from me.

At the bottom of the letter it states that they may go back in time to get other monies back, if we shut up and say that this is the end of the matter.

As soon as I get this letter, with my heart pounding, I ring up the end-end client and ask them if they did INDEED refuse payment or something to that effect. I'm told that NO, all invoices had been paid and nothing had been said to any effect to anyone. All invoices have been coming in from my client (the company i worked for, through my umbrella) and they have paid them.

So, this project was a little late due to mismanagement on the PM side (which of course is up for discussion) and my contract ended before the website ultimately went live. Another contractor/resource finished off what needed to be done obviously. I've checked and it's up and running and the end-end client commented how good its looking. All by the by but wanted to check none the less.

So, the client i worked for is clearly lying about not getting paid, never told me or raised anything about the standard of work being low, and indeed communicated back that invoices were cleared for payment, and signed off timesheets a week before they did that.

Can I call down the legal thunder on them? Obviously my relationship is with my umbrella which muddies the water, but I'm hoping/assuming that they are clearly playing with fire trying to get a project back on budget by spinning a yarn about not getting paid themselves and trying to say the work was not up to scratch.

FWIW the work i've done is 90% evident on the live website, and working very nicely. 8 years into contracting and this is the first time this has happened.

The law allows you to sue anyone for anything. Whether you will get anywhere is another matter. Follow the required dunning procedure, add interest if appropriate and then take them to court. If you need to know how to do it, search here for it.

8 years contracting and you are still working through a brolly?

[nucastle]

The law allows you to sue anyone for anything. Whether you will get anywhere is another matter. Follow the required dunning procedure, add interest if appropriate and then take them to court. If you need to know how to do it, search here for it.

8 years contracting and you are still working through a brolly?

I wondered if there was any way I could appoint solicitors and start proceedings on behalf of my umbrella, depending on how keen they are to proceed with this or just tell me it's my own hard luck. Obviously I want to get paid but whether the umbrella gives a monkeys is anyones guess.

As the end client has gone to the trouble of sending a letter to my umbrella, I'm assuming they aren't going to roll over and pay me after I've spent an hour getting a vocal word from the end-end client that they are talking bobbins.

I have a limited co and go through umbrellas depending on what I'm doing at the time.

[BlasterBates]

Sounds like they're trying it on. Just bill, remind and take legal action.

[TheFaQQer]

I wondered if there was any way I could appoint solicitors and start proceedings on behalf of my umbrella

Not without their consent you can't

Obviously I want to get paid but whether the umbrella gives a monkeys is anyones guess.

Don't guess - ask your employer what they are doing to get you the money.

[SueEllen]

I wondered if there was any way I could appoint solicitors and start proceedings on behalf of my umbrella, depending on how keen they are to proceed with this or just tell me it's my own hard luck. Obviously I want to get paid but whether the umbrella gives a monkeys is anyones guess.

As the end client has gone to the trouble of sending a letter to my umbrella, I'm assuming they aren't going to roll over and pay me after I've spent an hour getting a vocal word from the end-end client that they are talking bobbins.

I have a limited co and go through umbrellas depending on what I'm doing at the time.

Ask their permission to chase the client first and if they don't give it chase the umbrella directly for the money. (I've sent you a longer PM)

Generally if you chase one party they will pay up.

[kal]

Ask their permission to chase the client first and if they don't give it chase the umbrella directly for the money. (I've sent you a longer PM)

Generally if you chase one party they will pay up.

And people still think we are disguised employees... this is just one of many scenarios detailed recently which show the risk that contractors run doing business, IR35 really needs to be buried...

[psychocandy]

Another reason not to brolly here....

Reading behind the lines here OP am I right in assuming the client would rather you hadn't left and wanted you to extend? If so piss poor to then throw toys out of the cot it seems by refusing to pay for legitimate work. This sort of thing really pisses me off.

Had similar once though it never got to this. One client insisted that I couldnt refuse a contract extension unless I gave them a month notice - they said they wouldnt pay last month if I left.

Which was a bit rich considering, despite me hassling them, they never got it sorted until about 1 day left if I was lucky. (and then they wanted a month notice of me not accepting WTF!). Serious lack of understanding here by client.

In the end, it came to an end. They gave me about 2 days notice that they werent renewing due to budget cuts. Fair enough and quite acceptable but I felt it a bit much that they had this month idea in their head, yet they thought 2 days was fair for me. Hey ho.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

If your timesheet was signed by the end client then that would be likely to be construed as their acceptance and approval of the work that was done. I may be wrong but the way you've written your post it sounds as though there may be an agency involved - if there was then did you opt in or out of the conduct regs? If there was no agency involved and your timesheet for the period in question was signed then your umbrella company should be chasing the debt as the monies are owed to them. From your point of view - the umbrella company is your employer and therefore the legal route for redress in your case would be an employment tribunal.