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View Full Version : Motorway speeds: Get used to driving at 40mph



BrilloPad
14th May 2014, 06:50
Motorway speeds: Get used to driving at 40mph, says top highways official - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/10825851/Motorway-speeds-Get-used-to-driving-at-40mph-says-top-highways-official.html)

doodab
14th May 2014, 06:57
This is partly a result of privatising the railways IMO. The private companies shut or cut back frequency on many routes in the midlands so it's all but impossible to commute by train from outlying areas.

It was exactly this situation (commuting in the midlands) that finally prompted me to learn to drive. I couldn't have taken the job otherwise.

We need an integrated & well thought out transport policy, not just more spending on roads. Instead we get what I suspect is a purely ideological decision


The Government has committed to transforming the agency into a publicly owned corporation by next year.

how is that going to help? They are going to need a new agency to oversee the public corporation anyway, so either it's just going to cost more overall or they plan on giving the corporation less money to spend on actually making it work. Stupid ****ers.

original PM
14th May 2014, 07:18
this is such a non story

The maximum speed of a motorway is 70mph

Nowhere has anyone said that this will be the expected speed you can travel on a motorway all the time....

On the way in this morning I probably touched 90 on the M56....

But had left it 30 minutes later I would have done well to touch 40

d000hg
14th May 2014, 09:07
I would have done well to touch 40A bit like KentPhilip. He only touched 55 and considered himself to have done well.

NorthWestPerm2Contr
14th May 2014, 09:07
this is such a non story

The maximum speed of a motorway is 70mph

Nowhere has anyone said that this will be the expected speed you can travel on a motorway all the time....

On the way in this morning I probably touched 90 on the M56....

But had left it 30 minutes later I would have done well to touch 40

M60 Anti clockwise, M66 and M65: average speed of 70mph often hitting 90mph. This was at the peak of rush hour. Beat that.

d000hg
14th May 2014, 09:11
M60 Anti clockwise, M66 and M65: average speed of 70mph often hitting 90mph. This was at the peak of rush hour. Beat that.I'm working at home and it's a sunny day.

NorthWestPerm2Contr
14th May 2014, 09:12
I'm relaxing at home and it's a sunny day.

Apples and Oranges and FTFY

d000hg
14th May 2014, 09:14
I'm billing. It's work.

Gibbon
14th May 2014, 09:18
M60 Anti clockwise, M66 and M65: average speed of 70mph often hitting 90mph. This was at the peak of rush hour. Beat that.

You don't use the Grane road then?

NorthWestPerm2Contr
14th May 2014, 09:19
I'm billing. It's theft.

FTFY

NorthWestPerm2Contr
14th May 2014, 09:20
You don't use the Grane road then?

What's that?

d000hg
14th May 2014, 09:55
FTFYNo because I am working. But I can take tea breaks in my garden.

NorthWestPerm2Contr
14th May 2014, 09:59
No because I am :winker:. But I can take tea breaks in my garden.

FTFY

d000hg
14th May 2014, 10:00
This is why you aren't allowed to WFH and have to drive on the motorway like a wage-slave.

NorthWestPerm2Contr
14th May 2014, 10:03
This is why you aren't allowed to WFH and have to drive on the motorway like a wage-slave.

Who said I wasn't allowed to WFH?

Sorry - I couldn't resist, every one of your posts was just asking for a FTFY.

Batcher
14th May 2014, 10:32
Didn't they run an experiment on the M25 a few years ago to make the maximum during rush hour 25mph? Instead of starting and stopping all the time, the traffic kept on the move and people found their journeys were quicker than normal.

NorthWestPerm2Contr
14th May 2014, 10:35
Didn't they run an experiment on the M25 a few years ago to make the maximum during rush hour 25mph? Instead of starting and stopping all the time, the traffic kept on the move and people found their journeys were quicker than normal.

yeah that 25mph will gradually come down as the car park known as the M25 becomes fuller.

doodab
14th May 2014, 10:36
What many people don't realise judging by the comments in that article (although it's quite well documented) is that dense fast moving traffic experiences chaotic shockwaves similar to a sonic boom. It travels in the opposite direction to the traffic and usually causes the flow to come to a halt. The point of reducing speed lmits is to prevent this happening, which reduces the overall journey time through a given busy stretch.

To put it simply, you just can't get that much traffic to flow at 70mph down that road. The above mentioned phenomena will prevent you from doing so.

VectraMan
14th May 2014, 10:44
What many people don't realise judging by the comments in that article (although it's quite well documented) is that dense fast moving traffic experiences chaotic shockwaves similar to a sonic boom. It travels in the opposite direction to the traffic and usually causes the flow to come to a halt. The point of reducing speed lmits is to prevent this happening, which reduces the overall journey time through a given busy stretch.

To put it simply, you just can't get that much traffic to flow at 70mph down that road. The above mentioned phenomena will prevent you from doing so.

Reduces overall journey time taken as an average over all the cars. It doesn't mean that an individual driver gets there faster; obviously for an individual driver the slower they go the longer it takes.

The whole raison d'etre of motorways is high speed travel. If you're going to start reducing them to 40mph, then what's the point? May as well take the train if you want to waste half your day travelling.

NickFitz
14th May 2014, 10:45
The chap explicitly states that he's referring to travelling "down the M6 into Birmingham" and "every weekday morning". To take a reference to a few miles of road a few hours a week, and convert it into "Motorists must get used to driving at 40mph on the motorway" is a bit of an over-generalisation, to say the least.

doodab
14th May 2014, 10:49
Reduces overall journey time taken as an average over all the cars. It doesn't mean that an individual driver gets there faster; obviously for an individual driver the slower they go the longer it takes.

The whole raison d'etre of motorways is high speed travel. If you're going to start reducing them to 40mph, then what's the point? May as well take the train if you want to waste half your day travelling.

Moving at 70mph or even 10mph isn't actually an option when your stuck in a stationary queue of traffic is it though. It's not like half the people are stationary while the rest are doing 70 so the average is 35 and getting everyone moving at 40 represents an improvement. The whole traffic flow stops moving. It affects everyone.

VectraMan
14th May 2014, 10:59
Moving at 70mph or even 10mph isn't actually an option when your stuck in a stationary queue of traffic is it though. It's not like half the people are stationary while the rest are doing 70 so the average is 35 and getting everyone moving at 40 represents an improvement. The whole traffic flow stops moving. It affects everyone.

Somebody has to be first. Just get up earlier.

It's very annoying on the M25 or M42 when the road in front of you is clear and the signs are telling you "40". I used to spend a lot of time accelerating up to 70/80 between the gantries, and then braking to 40 for the speed camera, then accelerating up to 70/80 again... But that's inevitably what people will do.

The question is, would even the most hardened Clarkson'esque petrolhead really want the country to start making 6 lane motorways to ease congestion, with all the extra congestion and roadworks that would cause? The real problem with congestion is that everybody tries to go to the same places at the same time, not lack of overall capacity.

doodab
14th May 2014, 11:02
Somebody has to be first. Just get up earlier.

Yes that's great but most people don't, so while I'll get where I'm going the problem doesn't actually go away. Like you say you need to reduce demand at peak times but I don't see a practical way of doing that. So people need to accept longer journey times if we travel in the rush hour as a fact of life.

BrilloPad
14th May 2014, 11:08
The question is, would even the most hardened Clarkson'esque petrolhead really want the country to start making 6 lane motorways to ease congestion, with all the extra congestion and roadworks that would cause?

Can't we build new motorways alonside or above the existing ones?

doodab
14th May 2014, 11:15
Can't we build new motorways alonside or above the existing ones?

Will it actually help? What level of capacity do we require to support a doubling of the speed? Does it scale linearly or follow a power law?

doodab
14th May 2014, 11:18
It's very annoying on the M25 or M42 when the road in front of you is clear and the signs are telling you "40". I used to spend a lot of time accelerating up to 70/80 between the gantries, and then braking to 40 for the speed camera, then accelerating up to 70/80 again... But that's inevitably what people will do.

Yes and when the road is busy further up that low density stream of 80mph traffic hits back of the high density 40mph one, and brakes suddenly causing a shockwave and rolling traffic jam. Hence people end up stationary instead of doing 40mph they were asked to do.

original PM
14th May 2014, 11:21
Can't we build new motorways alonside or above the existing ones?

why when apart from say 2 hours per day during the week there is plenty of capacity

I never do 9-5 any more - no point as I hit rush hour

Either 8-4 or 10-6 (or WFH!) and rarely queue on the motorway.

NorthWestPerm2Contr
14th May 2014, 11:25
why when apart from say 2 hours per day during the week there is plenty of capacity

I never do 9-5 any more - no point as I hit rush hour

Either 8-4 or 10-6 (or WFH!) and rarely queue on the motorway.

It's a different ball game in South East and London. Unless you do 11-7 or 12 - 8 then you will hit serious traffic.

doodab
14th May 2014, 11:27
why when apart from say 2 hours per day during the week there is plenty of capacity

That's not actually true on some stretches though. On parts of the network it's more like 8-12 hours a day of congestion.

original PM
14th May 2014, 11:36
It's a different ball game in South East and London. Unless you do 11-7 or 12 - 8 then you will hit serious traffic.


That's not actually true on some stretches though. On parts of the network it's more like 8-12 hours a day of congestion.

Yeah I know - the M6 stretch from end of the toll road to Preston could do with an extra few lanes - it is stupid most days and just nuts on a Friday.

BoredBloke
14th May 2014, 11:43
It's a different ball game in South East and London. Unless you do 11-7 or 12 - 8 then you will hit serious traffic.

I don't know....the m60 is pretty shocking. When I was on my last role I had to commute between Rochdale and Warrington. I'd get to my car for about 6:45 to 7 am and it would take about 10 mins to get to the motorway. It was already queuing by then. This didn't seem to disperse until well after 10. Usually I'd drive into the middle of Manchester city centre and back out along the M602 rather than crawl round the M60 - even if it took as long as the M60 the fact that I was moving was a benefit - often it was quicker. Helps when you know the rat runs in Manchester though!

psychocandy
14th May 2014, 11:55
Not so bad in parts of Wales. Went to site once years ago in rural Powys and jokingly asked what traffoc was like in rush hour.

They told me avoid certain time because farmer in next village moves his sheep across the road to his other field some days.

d000hg
14th May 2014, 12:53
What many people don't realise judging by the comments in that article (although it's quite well documented) is that dense fast moving traffic experiences chaotic shockwaves similar to a sonic boom. It travels in the opposite direction to the traffic and usually causes the flow to come to a halt. The point of reducing speed lmits is to prevent this happening, which reduces the overall journey time through a given busy stretch.

To put it simply, you just can't get that much traffic to flow at 70mph down that road. The above mentioned phenomena will prevent you from doing so.Car trains would be another option.

NorthWestPerm2Contr
14th May 2014, 13:06
I don't know....the m60 is pretty shocking. When I was on my last role I had to commute between Rochdale and Warrington. I'd get to my car for about 6:45 to 7 am and it would take about 10 mins to get to the motorway. It was already queuing by then. This didn't seem to disperse until well after 10. Usually I'd drive into the middle of Manchester city centre and back out along the M602 rather than crawl round the M60 - even if it took as long as the M60 the fact that I was moving was a benefit - often it was quicker. Helps when you know the rat runs in Manchester though!

Manchester is 100x easier than London. You just need to know the right routes and whether it is worth getting the tram or train. Commute daily on M60 and 95% of the time it is clear unless there has been an accident.

SueEllen
14th May 2014, 13:10
It's a different ball game in South East and London. Unless you do 11-7 or 12 - 8 then you will hit serious traffic.

You can escape traffic if you like driving at 6.30am. Though you need to have a client who doesn't mind you being in around 7am and leaving before 5pm. Though you have to time your departure for the gap between school kick out time and normal rush hour.

BrilloPad
14th May 2014, 13:20
Not so bad in parts of Wales. Went to site once years ago in rural Powys and jokingly asked what traffoc was like in rush hour.

They told me avoid certain time because farmer in next village moves his sheep across the road to his other field some days.

No-one speeds in North Wales. The Heddlu make the SS look like amateurs.

SueEllen
14th May 2014, 13:23
No-one speeds in North Wales. The Heddlu make the SS look like amateurs.

If you speed you may run over sheep, there as in London whether you speed or not some pedestrian walks out in front of you to try and kill themselves.

Platypus
14th May 2014, 13:33
M60 Anti clockwise, M66 and M65: average speed of 70mph often hitting 90mph. This was at the peak of rush hour. Beat that.

As far as incriminating yourself for speeding, I can't :laugh

Gibbon
15th May 2014, 09:10
What's that?

The short cut from M66 to M65, B6232.

BrilloPad
15th May 2014, 09:17
If you speed you may run over sheep, there as in London whether you speed or not some pedestrian walks out in front of you to try and kill themselves.

+1000

I always feel the biggest problem with cycling in London is not car drivers. Its the pedestrians.

lilelvis2000
15th May 2014, 21:34
This is partly a result of privatising the railways IMO. The private companies shut or cut back frequency on many routes in the midlands so it's all but impossible to commute by train from outlying areas.

It was exactly this situation (commuting in the midlands) that finally prompted me to learn to drive. I couldn't have taken the job otherwise.

We need an integrated & well thought out transport policy, not just more spending on roads. Instead we get what I suspect is a purely ideological decision



how is that going to help? They are going to need a new agency to oversee the public corporation anyway, so either it's just going to cost more overall or they plan on giving the corporation less money to spend on actually making it work. Stupid ****ers.


Its all about helping their cronies out...have you not figured out what politics is about these days. As if they care if it costs more - they'll just invent a new tax and a credit where you'll be worse off by several £ a week.

Yeah, how the hell has society gone downhill so fast.