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Hermione
20th May 2014, 10:14
Hi, new to this but has anyone encountered Tax Devil? Basically the offering is you are set up as an employee with minimal salary being processed under PAYE, and the rest going through a remuneration trust. They claim to have won a HMRC challenge in 2010, and have Insurance indemnifying you in the event of an enquiry.

Any opinions on this?

LisaContractorUmbrella
20th May 2014, 10:52
Can't find reference to them on Companies House or DueDil which is not a good sign.The are promising 90% take home and there are loads of threads on here about that!

They may have won against HMRC in 2010 (although I would ask for evidence) but things have changed a bit since then - Google 'Onshore Employment Intermediaries'; 'False Self Employment' 'Disguised Remuneration Legislation' and BN66. If reading through that lot doesn't put you off then I can only wish you the very best of luck.

DaveB
20th May 2014, 10:52
Any opinions on this?

Yep. :spam:

CDJ
20th May 2014, 11:01
Hi, new to this but has anyone encountered Tax Devil? Basically the offering is you are set up as an employee with minimal salary being processed under PAYE, and the rest going through a remuneration trust. They claim to have won a HMRC challenge in 2010, and have Insurance indemnifying you in the event of an enquiry.

Any opinions on this?

Hermione - Remuneration Trust vehicles for contractors are dead. You are essentially painting a very large target on your back for HMRC and they will quite happily kick you with it - Tax Devil will quite happily take your money, promise the world (we will cover all legal fees, we have insurance that will cover you against investigation blah blah) and then simply disappear into the ether, leaving you with a rather large tax bill.

Have a read through the HMRC Scheme Enquiries threads.. These are all remuneration trust based arrangements, they are all backed by QC opinion, they were all marketed in exactly the same way as "legal".. but HMRC are gunning for these and will soon have the ability to make you pay up front the disputed tax where they believe the arrangement is a synthetic one set-up purely to avoid tax.

Its your choice, personally I wouldn't touch it (having been burned from using an EBT 4 years ago). But some points - You need to be very aware of how the arrangements work; you should get these arrangements independently verified by your own tax advisor; you need to be fully versed with HMRC's GAAR and understand whether this could apply to your arrangements.

and lastly, if you engage in this type of arrangement, expect it to be challenged, expect an investigation and possible assessment - and then expect either an Accelerated Payment Notice or potential Follower Notice, followed by a lengthy and expensive dispute process.

Your call..

TheFaQQer
20th May 2014, 11:20
Any opinions on this?

The 90% they can get you is higher than the 82% that you said you got with Rousseau International two years ago, so it must be an improvement. Go for it and let us know how it turns out.

Batcher
20th May 2014, 11:22
I've just received the spam email from contractjobs.com. Wouldn't touch it with a barge pole and will need to make sure I'm removed from that website now.

administrator
20th May 2014, 11:36
The 90% they can get you is higher than the 82% that you said you got with Rousseau International two years ago, so it must be an improvement. Go for it and let us know how it turns out.

I love you, TheFaQQer!

http://forums.contractoruk.com/umbrella-companies/75382-rousseau-international.html#post1477089

Classic :D

DaveB
20th May 2014, 11:40
While you are still here you might want to ask them why they are currently breaking UK Law by not having their registered company information available on the webste.

As of 1st January 2007 companies are required to put the following on both their website and business emails:


Company registration number
Place of registration
Registered office address.

Websites also need to include:

VAT number.
Company name, postal address and company email address
The name of any trade bodies or professional associations that the business is part of, including membership or registration details.

TheFaQQer
20th May 2014, 11:44
While you are still here you might want to ask them why they are currently breaking UK Law by not having their registered company information available on the webste.

As of 1st January 2007 companies are required to put the following on both their website and business emails:


Company registration number
Place of registration
Registered office address.

Websites also need to include:

VAT number.
Company name, postal address and company email address
The name of any trade bodies or professional associations that the business is part of, including membership or registration details.


The domain is registered to an individual, so maybe they aren't a limited company, just a sole trader. Which would fill me with confidence.

DaveB
20th May 2014, 12:07
The domain is registered to an individual, so maybe they aren't a limited company, just a sole trader. Which would fill me with confidence.

But that hardly chimes with the desiption on the website!

They must have loads of people and offices, they've been in business for years and they've got all these wonderful tax solutions. They even want you to come and meet them for a drinks!


Give us a ring or come to see us – we love meeting in person to talk through our solutions face-to-face. We even hold drinks evenings so you can meet us and other contractors.

Hermione
20th May 2014, 12:44
Can't find reference to them on Companies House or DueDil which is not a good sign.The are promising 90% take home and there are loads of threads on here about that!

They may have won against HMRC in 2010 (although I would ask for evidence) but things have changed a bit since then - Google 'Onshore Employment Intermediaries'; 'False Self Employment' 'Disguised Remuneration Legislation' and BN66. If reading through that lot doesn't put you off then I can only wish you the very best of luck.

Thanks for this, and everyone else for the input. Was deeply suspicious and uncomfortable with the offering as I didn't get a satisfactory explanation on the remuneration trust.

cojak
20th May 2014, 13:29
Just in case you aren't a Tax Troll, read this:

(Umbrella) companies - check them out BEFORE things go wrong! (http://forums.contractoruk.com/umbrella-companies/98204-umbrella-companies-checking-them-out-before-things-go-wrong.html)

There wouldn't happen to be some kind of connection between Rousseau and Tax Devil, would there?

Hermione
20th May 2014, 14:57
Just in case you aren't a Tax Troll, read this:

(Umbrella) companies - check them out BEFORE things go wrong! (http://forums.contractoruk.com/umbrella-companies/98204-umbrella-companies-checking-them-out-before-things-go-wrong.html)

There wouldn't happen to be some kind of connection between Rousseau and Tax Devil, would there?

Not that I'm aware of. Rousseau was offshore (yikes!), and may still be for all I know. Interestingly, having asked for sight of the insurance cover from Lloyds, went quiet.

Will stick with the legit umbrellas. Have been on payroll at last contract which was so much more straightforward, if less lucrative.

Hermione
20th May 2014, 16:43
Just in case you aren't a Tax Troll, read this:

(Umbrella) companies - check them out BEFORE things go wrong! (http://forums.contractoruk.com/umbrella-companies/98204-umbrella-companies-checking-them-out-before-things-go-wrong.html)

There wouldn't happen to be some kind of connection between Rousseau and Tax Devil, would there?

Mmmm, what's a tax troll?!

LisaContractorUmbrella
21st May 2014, 07:07
Mmmm, what's a tax troll?!

We get loads of people coming on to the forum seeming to ask about dodgy tax avoidance schemes in all innocence - they nearly always turn out to be a scheme promoter. Once their evil ploy is uncovered the mods dispose of them :smile

jbryce
21st May 2014, 13:57
Thanks for this, and everyone else for the input. Was deeply suspicious and uncomfortable with the offering as I didn't get a satisfactory explanation on the remuneration trust.

Remuneration Trusts have been around for a long, long time, they are expensive to administer and need severe tax specialists to run them effectively. They are the preserve of the seriously rich. Like all schemes (http://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc-scheme-enquiries/) they are best avoided unless you really have an appetite for the kicking you are about to get.

Hermione
21st May 2014, 14:33
We get loads of people coming on to the forum seeming to ask about dodgy tax avoidance schemes in all innocence - they nearly always turn out to be a scheme promoter. Once their evil ploy is uncovered the mods dispose of them :smile

Thanks. Not a tax troll, just a contractor trying to find a way of getting as much of my pay without breaking the rules, which seem to becoming more and more burdensome and difficult.

jbryce
21st May 2014, 19:15
We get loads of people coming on to the forum seeming to ask about dodgy tax avoidance schemes in all innocence - they nearly always turn out to be a scheme promoter. Once their evil ploy is uncovered the mods dispose of them :smile

....why do they bother? When people ask about these schemes we usually manage to put enough posts up to put the frighteners on anyone. I hope.

TykeMerc
21st May 2014, 20:06
Thanks. Not a tax troll, just a contractor trying to find a way of getting as much of my pay without breaking the rules, which seem to becoming more and more burdensome and difficult.

There's a very simple way to do that which is to ignore esoteric an ludicrously risky scheme providers. The most sensible approach for a decent return and staying safely on the legal side of the line is a MyCo Ltd. There's little difficulty or burden in running one.

Treat these providers like plague carriers, HMRC is actively targeting all schemes and doing their utmost to kick the arses of all the scheme USERS.

LisaContractorUmbrella
22nd May 2014, 07:11
....why do they bother? When people ask about these schemes we usually manage to put enough posts up to put the frighteners on anyone. I hope.

I hope so too but I think that the lure of 85 or 90% take home is just too much for some people :frown

TheFaQQer
22nd May 2014, 08:23
I hope so too but I think that the lure of 85 or 90% take home is just too much for some people :frown

I reported one to the ASA because they were claiming you could get 90% returns, which I said was not possible under an umbrella company that paid NI and PAYE.

I was told
neither the ASA nor HMRC are able to comment on the specific business model of this company.

So that's all right then.

LisaContractorUmbrella
22nd May 2014, 08:52
HMRC won't offer official comment on anything but you can be pretty certain that they will have acted - who knows you could be single handedly responsible for the Offshore Employment Intermediaries legislation :happy

jbryce
22nd May 2014, 10:30
I hope so too but I think that the lure of 85 or 90% take home is just too much for some people :frown

....although when your accountant tells you that a scheme is legal and less hassle than IR35 it is tempting to just do it.
I doubt if there are many accountants recommending schemes nowadays :) Users of DOTAS schemes will be paying HMRC up front - you need some balls to give money to HMRC and expect to get it back.

TaxDevil claim that they don't fall under DOTAS. Really? Well that's very nice, but since their scheme started after the GAAR they will be caught under that, and guess who get's their asses kicked? Yes - the users.

TaxDevil is not an established firm - look at their website - they are cynically targeting and exploiting contractors. Terrifying.

LisaContractorUmbrella
22nd May 2014, 10:54
That's the trouble isn't it - people will often believe what they're told if the person advising them is convincing and if they want to be convinced. We can only continue to spread the word :ohwell

Hermione
23rd May 2014, 09:24
I hope so too but I think that the lure of 85 or 90% take home is just too much for some people :frown

Advice on this forum has been duly noted, and gratefully received. Walking away, with less money, but a lot less worry. Thanks to all you.

Hermione
23rd May 2014, 09:27
Advice on this forum has been duly noted, and gratefully received. Walking away, with less money, but a lot less worry. Thanks to all you.

Oh, just had another call from Principal Contractors who operate out of the IOM. I ended the call with a firm NO!

LisaContractorUmbrella
23rd May 2014, 10:09
Oh, just had another call from Principal Contractors who operate out of the IOM. I ended the call with a firm NO!

Very wise :yay:

jbryce
24th May 2014, 12:31
Very wise :yay:

Jeez this is another lot from Michael Wilson:
'Admin Name: Michael Wilson'
They really need to try a bit harder to cover their tracks.

Actually - we do quite a lot of work for HMRC, they can unpick this one themselves....

LisaContractorUmbrella
27th May 2014, 08:18
Jeez this is another lot from Michael Wilson:
'Admin Name: Michael Wilson'
They really need to try a bit harder to cover their tracks.

Actually - we do quite a lot of work for HMRC, they can unpick this one themselves....

I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that there are only about 2 or 3 companies offering all these schemes just under different guises :eyes

Batcher
3rd June 2014, 13:46
Oh jeez, I've just been followed on Twitter by @taxdevilpayroll ...:puke:

v8gaz
3rd June 2014, 15:30
Oh jeez, I've just been followed on Twitter by @taxdevilpayroll ...:puke:

Me too. I'm just waiting for an appropriate time to comment on twitter on these schemes. :)

DaveB
3rd June 2014, 20:03
Just received this from them:


From: "andrei.shelton" <andrei.shelton>
Subject: Contractor Tax News
Date: 3 June 2014 12:01:07 BST
To: DaveB
Reply-To: andrei.shelton

I thought that maybe as a Contractor you would be interested in this.

Tax Devil is a tried and trusted UK-based payroll solutions provider that has been helping its customers for over 14 years.

Our you tube video explains in just a few minutes how we help you take home more of your pay, safely and securely:

Play Video

Our solutions have been running for over 14 years and are fully compliant with existing and proposed legislation. Our retention rates can help you to increase your take-home pay significantly over either PAYE or standard Umbrella.

We are extremely competitive compared with the more exotic offshore providers; but with a degree of safety they cannot match. We are based solely on the UK mainland and your funds remain onshore. We understand that as well as a great retention rate, safety, security and service are top of your priorities, and we excel in all three.

To take home more of your pay, safely and securely, request an illustration now, or give us a call on 0203 131 8984

Kind regards,

Hannah Wilson
Tax Devil.co.uk
amy@domainname
0203 131 8984


Still no company details in the email, claims to have been going for 14 years but apparently can't give consistent contact details. Sent from one name, signed in another with an email address for a third.

This mail claims they have been going for 14 years, I found another claiming 25 years.
:facepalm:

Edit: Did a quick trawl back through my emails to try and track down whether I really was registered with contractjobs.com and came across another email with an address of info@contractjobs.com from "Hannah" at Contractor Pay Ltd (http://www.contractor-pay.co.uk/contact.html).

No real time to dig now, but it looks like there is a connection between Contractor Pay Ltd and Tax Devil.

Interestingly, according to Companies House, Contractor Pay Ltd was dissolved in 2010.

the Domain Name for contractor-pay.co.uk is registered to :


Domain name:
contractor-pay.co.uk

Registrant:
iain nicholson

Registrant type:
Unknown

Registrant's address:
xxxxxxxxxxxx
Canterbury
Kent
CT1 xxx
United Kingdom


Iain appears to be this chap (https://www.linkedin.com/pub/iain-nicholson/7/594/884) who describes himself as an IT Contractor and lists "High Profile tax planners" among his clients.

All the emails I've had connected to Tax Devil (3 in total, I checked the spam folder and found another one) have featured contractjobs.co.uk as the source domain for the email, one from info@ and two from Andrei Shelton.

According to their info page Contractjobs.com is owned and operated by 888 Recruitment.

Andrei is listed as a Director of 888 Recruitment Ltd alongside Darren Browne and his wife Sonia. Darren is also director of one of the largest privately held recruitment organisations in the country - Networkers Group Holdings Plc.

Still nothing conclusive about Tax Devil, but some connections do seem to be appearing.

***Admin note 2014.10.10 - I have removed the email addresses from the top email only and have seen the email in its original form so do not doubt the validity of the message.***

LisaContractorUmbrella
4th June 2014, 06:58
Name & Registered Office:
TAX DEVIL LIMITED
FIRST FLOOR
124 - 126 WARDOUR STREET
LONDON
UNITED KINGDOM
W1F 0TY
Company No. 09065612




Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 02/06/2014

DaveB
4th June 2014, 07:12
Name & Registered Office:
TAX DEVIL LIMITED
FIRST FLOOR
124 - 126 WARDOUR STREET
LONDON
UNITED KINGDOM
W1F 0TY
Company No. 09065612




Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 02/06/2014

Which would explain why there was no record of them previously, and really puts the lie to their claims to have been in business for 14 or 25 years.

No director details available yet from the usual sources, probably due to delays in updating companies house records. I think I can probably guess at least two of the names we'll see when they are available.

LisaContractorUmbrella
4th June 2014, 07:15
Which would explain why there was no record of them previously, and really puts the lie to their claims to have been in business for 14 or 25 years.

They may have been in business for 14 years but not under this name - have tried to get info on directors but DueDil hasn't even registered them yet :eyes

DaveB
4th June 2014, 07:29
What gets me is that if they are, as it appears, part of the Networking Group, then why didn't they leverage that to back up their claims. People would be far more likely to trust them as part of a big name company with money in the bank and a proven track record than if they just appear over night and spam people with the usual OTT retention claims.

LisaContractorUmbrella
4th June 2014, 07:43
What gets me is that if they are, as it appears, part of the Networking Group, then why didn't they leverage that to back up their claims. People would be far more likely to trust them as part of a big name company with money in the bank and a proven track record than if they just appear over night and spam people with the usual OTT retention claims.

Aren't the Networking Group recruiters :confused:

DaveB
4th June 2014, 07:53
Aren't the Networking Group recruiters :confused:

Yes they are. Contractor Jobs is the company that has been spamming people with Tax Devil emails. They are owned by 888 Recruitment, who have Darren Browne and his wife as directors. Darren is MD of the Networking Group which is a multimillion pound operation owning a wide range of recruitment related businesses, all of which he is a director of.

The point I was trying to make is that spinning up a "Tax Efficient" payroll operation, which is how Tax Devil is being promoted, would be a logical extension of that business and more likely to inspire confidence than one that appears to have sprung, fully formed, out of nothing, overnight and makes the same retention claims as the rest of them.

Unless of course they know the whole premise is dodgy in the current climate and don't want to make that association.

The director details will help confirm the connection on e they are available.

LisaContractorUmbrella
4th June 2014, 07:55
Yes they are. Contractor Jobs is the company that has been spamming people with Tax Devil emails. They are owned by 888 Recruitment, who have Darren Browne and his wife as directors. Darren is MD of the Networking Group which is a multimillion pound operation owning a wide range of recruitment related businesses, all of which he is a director of.

The point I was trying to make is that spinning up a "Tax Efficient" payroll operation, which is how Tax Devil is being promoted, would be a logical extension of that business and more likely to inspire confidence than one that appears to have sprung, fully formed, out of nothing, overnight and makes the same retention claims as the rest of them.

Unless of course they know the whole premise is dodgy in the current climate and don't want to make that association.

The director details will help confirm the connection on e they are available.

This perhaps

TheFaQQer
4th June 2014, 08:52
Hannah has also recommended Vanilla Umbrella to me this week.

Their website doesn't render properly on Chrome on Linux, and there's no company details on there to be able to look much further.

Their address is the same 8 Vernon Place, Canterbury, Kent CT1 3HG as some of the others, though.

TheFaQQer
4th June 2014, 08:57
Edit: Did a quick trawl back through my emails to try and track down whether I really was registered with contractjobs.com and came across another email with an address of info@contractjobs.com from "Hannah" at Contractor Pay Ltd (http://www.contractor-pay.co.uk/contact.html).

I'm missing out - Contractor Pay can get "Rates of return as high as 90%"

Quick, sign me up!

TheFaQQer
4th June 2014, 09:01
Hannah has also recommended Vanilla Umbrella to me this week.

Their website doesn't render properly on Chrome on Linux, and there's no company details on there to be able to look much further.

Their address is the same 8 Vernon Place, Canterbury, Kent CT1 3HG as some of the others, though.

CORRECTION - it was Hannah at contractjobs.com that sent me Vanilla Umbrella. Too many Hannah's, too many schemes.

Dohc
11th July 2014, 14:20
Afternoon,

I came across this thread while doing some research. Not sure if this has already been flagged on here but another company called "ONSHORE TAX SOLUTIONS LIMITED" are offering the same scheme claiming to be HMRC approved and backed by Lloyds.

All very convincing, however, when I looked at Companies House it appears they've only been registered since last month.

ONSHORE TAX SOLUTIONS LIMITED
2 MARTIN HOUSE
179 - 181 NORTH END ROAD
LONDON
W14 9NL
UNITED KINGDOM
Company No. 09065616


Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 02/06/2014
Country of Origin: United Kingdom

northernladuk
11th July 2014, 15:01
Afternoon,

I came across this thread while doing some research. Not sure if this has already been flagged on here but another company called "ONSHORE TAX SOLUTIONS LIMITED" are offering the same scheme claiming to be HMRC approved and backed by Lloyds.

All very convincing, however, when I looked at Companies House it appears they've only been registered since last month.

ONSHORE TAX SOLUTIONS LIMITED
2 MARTIN HOUSE
179 - 181 NORTH END ROAD
LONDON
W14 9NL
UNITED KINGDOM
Company No. 09065616


Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 02/06/2014
Country of Origin: United Kingdom

We are already all over this lot. It's been picked up on and reported to the relevant authorities.

You didn't happen to get some spam email from a reputable(ish) contractors site with these peoples advert did you?

TheCyclingProgrammer
11th July 2014, 15:44
Director of Tax Devil is a Mr Richard Peter Hazzard:

https://www.duedil.com/company/09065612/tax-devil-limited/people

Thats a lot of active directorships...

His most recent looks familiar:

http://onshoretaxsolutions.com

Dohc
11th July 2014, 21:07
We are already all over this lot. It's been picked up on and reported to the relevant authorities.

You didn't happen to get some spam email from a reputable(ish) contractors site with these peoples advert did you?

Yes it did come through spam from someone / something called "Hannah".

Glad it's been reported / flagged, it was VERY convincing and I fear others less suspecting might sign up.

RajaStyle
30th July 2015, 14:38
showing dissolved now

URI (http://data.companieshouse.gov.uk/doc/company/09065616)

cojak
30th July 2015, 14:54
showing dissolved now

URI (http://data.companieshouse.gov.uk/doc/company/09065616)

Oh Dear. What a pity. Never mind.

RajaStyle
30th July 2015, 15:03
Oh Dear. What a pity. Never mind.

strangely the website is still up and running, still with no address or registered company details. Was considering signing up with them, glad I came to this site to read up first :-)