EU democracy

[xoggoth]

Not totally sure but, as I understand it, Eastern Europeans registered to vote in the UK helped determine the British members of the European Parliament by proportional representation for the UK only. Assuming there are negligible numbers of Brits in Eastern Europe, their own seats were negligibly affected by British interests. Also smaller states get proportionately more seats and the number of seats is not regularly adjusted to population.

In other words some EU citizens get to significantly affect the representation of other countries they migrate to without affecting that of their own one iota. Not much of a real democracy is it? Except for those who have already dismissed national interests as unimportant.

[Flashman]

Not totally sure but, as I understand it, Eastern Europeans registered to vote in the UK helped determine the British members of the European Parliament by proportional representation for the UK only. Assuming there are negligible numbers of Brits in Eastern Europe, their own seats were negligibly affected by British interests. Also smaller states get proportionately more seats and the number of seats is not regularly adjusted to population.

In other words some EU citizens get to significantly affect the representation of other countries they migrate to without affecting that of their own one iota. Not much of a real democracy is it? Except for those who have already dismissed national interests as unimportant.

The EU created the Parliament as a sop to the peasants of Europe. It is barely more than a rubber stamp for the EU Commission. The funny thing is the EU's Parliament is now full of ungrateful eurosceptics. It's funny how things work out.

[vetran]

well if the Eastern Europeans vote it sounds like it was for Christmas. Seems most countries voted for Euro sceptics right wing anti immigration parties.

Oh Dear, maybe the EU will change before it explodes. One can but hope.

[doodab]

The funny thing is the EU's Parliament is now full of ungrateful eurosceptics. It's funny how things work out.

Seems most countries voted for Euro sceptics right wing anti immigration parties..

Really? The eurosceptics gained some ground but it looks like most people voted for members of the centrist pro-integration parties (EPP, Socialists & Liberals) to me...

BBC News - Vote 2014 Election Results for the EU Parliament

[speling bee]

Not totally sure but, as I understand it, Eastern Europeans registered to vote in the UK helped determine the British members of the European Parliament by proportional representation for the UK only. Assuming there are negligible numbers of Brits in Eastern Europe, their own seats were negligibly affected by British interests. Also smaller states get proportionately more seats and the number of seats is not regularly adjusted to population.

In other words some EU citizens get to significantly affect the representation of other countries they migrate to without affecting that of their own one iota. Not much of a real democracy is it? Except for those who have already dismissed national interests as unimportant.

Why worry about East Europeans and not Irish citizens?

Also, does it bother you that someone from Cumbria, Birmingham or Scotland who has moved to London gets to vote in the Westminster election for a London MP, having the same effect as the one you describe?

[vetran]

Really? The eurosceptics gained some ground but it looks like most people voted for members of the centrist pro-integration parties (EPP, Socialists & Liberals) to me...

BBC News - Vote 2014 Election Results for the EU Parliament

Most people have always voted for them.

so the rise of UKIP, National Front and NPD isn't a shock?

[xoggoth]

The eurosceptics gained some ground but it looks like most people voted for members of the centrist pro-integration parties

That link is not clear how much of the 19.9% Other is made up of far right groups which are presumably anti-EU. France's FN alone have 25 seats.

Why worry about East Europeans and not Irish citizens?

Also, does it bother you that someone from Cumbria, Birmingham or Scotland who has moved to London gets to vote in the Westminster election for a London MP, having the same effect as the one you describe?

For the rather obvious reasons that the second group are British, and that, after so many centuries of free movement, there is no very major difference in culture or standard of living between us and the Irish. Their political attitudes and motivations will be much as ours, unlike those from poorer EU countries who will have a very different agenda which may not be in our interests.

Migrants seek to serve their own interests just as we do and those who have migrated here will presumably seek more flexible borders, not less which is what most Brits want. Large numbers of unskilled migrants do nothing at all for the economic well being of the British and reduce our quality of life by placing enormous pressure on our schools, housing, organisations and infrastructure. There are also some pretty undesirable attitudes in Eastern Europe like anti-Semitism and far right extremism. Contrary to the usual mantra, not all non-British people are saints.

[xoggoth]

I would also argue that low skilled labour is taking us backwards. We need to change with the times and embrace technology that replaces the simple manual skills.

Our high streets are emptying because wide car ownership, supermarkets and shopping malls and online shopping make the little high street shop uneconomic. It is not a positive to have these space filled with shops selling Polish food that is of no interest to the rest of us. We need to go with the times and either use these spaces for housing or as pick up points for online shops as Argos does. Similarly the EU car washers hanging around in supermarket car parks are just taking business from the automated car wash at your local garage. In factories we would do better to increase automation with machines that can be turned off at the end of the shift, not low paid people whose net contribution to the state is often negative.

We will only compete with the developing world if we stop the impossible task of trying to produce low price goods and services and concentrate on innovation and technology that they are not yet capable of.

[Flashman]

Herman van Rompuy, Jose Manuel Barroso, Jacques Delors, Cathy Ashton, Peter Mandelson, Ken Clarke, Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg, your boys took one hell of a beating…

[vetran]

we have also decided that our pension crisis will be solved by working longer, so why do we need more workers when most non skilled workers will be struggling to find a job into their late 60s?